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2D All the way! / 2D died the day 3d came

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db programmer 12
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Posted: 16th Oct 2005 00:59
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Don't get me wrong I love 2d, 2d is the greatest! Some 2d games like Alien Hominid are better then 3d games.

Anyways, how come everybody starting 3d then 2d was gradually being killed by the disease that is 3d. It looks like it's on it's death bed now. Just look at the Ps3 graphics, Bethmoth won't be buisness for long making 2d games. SNK's even starting to go 3d! 2d's only gonna be used for low budget companies now and retro gamers like myself .

Don't get me wrong I love crisp visuals in 3D but you now they should walk hand in hand. 3d's gonna die too, replaced by Vitrual Reality which sounds cool be gamemakers and gamers alike will forget their orgins.

Storylines and realism in games are cool but it shouldn't take you away from the fact that it's a game for fun not to emulate real life.
I mean AI shouldn't be stupid but it's just a computer thing it shouldn't advance into like you friend. We'll leave behind earth and live inside something VR.

I might be able to put up with 3d but VR i'll have to adjust. I'm a teen when I'm ready to have my own company and stuff I'll have to make VR. Guess how expensive that'll be probably billions or close to it.

Back in the day of 2d, a geeky guy made a game like Wolfenstein 3d
and got it published and it sucked let me tell you that. His name was Ken Silverman or something anyway you ask for your game to get published by like EA and it's great you'll get a letter back politely telling you to back off.

Everything's got so sucky with 3D am I right?

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Xenocythe
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Posted: 16th Oct 2005 01:09
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Would you rather play with a drawing of an airplane ona peice of paper, or a remote controlled airplane?
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Hawkeye
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Posted: 16th Oct 2005 01:43
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I completely agree. There are fewer and fewer 3d games which are as genuinely addicting and good as some freeware 2d games I know.


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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 16th Oct 2005 02:28
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I like 2D games best!!!

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NanoBrain
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Posted: 16th Oct 2005 03:33
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db programmer 12,

What sense does this thread make, unless your running a poll on 2D against 3D?



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Grog Grueslayer
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Posted: 16th Oct 2005 04:11
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2D still has a place in my heart.
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soapyfish
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Posted: 16th Oct 2005 04:33
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I don't think either is better than the other. I enjoy some 3d games but I also enjoy some 2d games.


When the power of love overcomes the love of power... The world will know peace. - Jimi Hendrix
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db programmer 12
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Posted: 16th Oct 2005 04:51
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@ NanoBrain

This thread just states graphics doesn't make the game. No poll I love both types I'm just saying some 2d games are better then 3d ones but somepeople pick graphics over gameplay.

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NanoBrain
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Posted: 16th Oct 2005 07:50
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db programmer 12,

Your subject might be a bit offset from the real topic. Oh well. About graphics, some desire them more than good gameplay. Some like a mixture. Some purely like gameplay, and do not care about graphics at all. Unless this is a poll to help you create a 'fun' game, there is no point.



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Fneep
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Posted: 16th Oct 2005 13:55
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The thing is, 2D and 3D both have good points.

2D:
Lovingly Crafted Sprites (If youve played "The Spirit Engine" youll know what I mean)
Easy to make
Final Fantasy VI
You are restrained by your drawing skills

3D:
You can move in 3D Space. In 2D you are just on a flat 2D surface. In 3D you can jump, and move about in a much free-er way.
Final Fantasy VIII
3D has virtually limitless possibilities.

Look, really 2D will never die. Just as you started up this thread, you must still Like 2D.
2D and 3D can even be Symbiotic together, They can live in harmony.
In Final Fantasy VII, there are lovingly crafted 2D sprited backgrounds, but the characters are fully rotatable 3D models. The effect is awesome.

But through this entire monolouge, I guess its kinda roundabout way of saying it, but I guess what im really trying to say is...

FINAL FANTASY IS AWESOME!

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BlinkOk
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Posted: 16th Oct 2005 16:36
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i guess these guys must be cryin in their non existant tissues;
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/print/8/14

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Freddy 007
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Posted: 16th Oct 2005 23:42
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2D isn't dead at all. Just look at Castlevania!

Oh well, they're making a 3D one, but only one! 1!

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Van B
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Posted: 17th Oct 2005 10:22
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Ironically I'd say 3D was easier, at least in some regards, like animation.

The problem I see is that lots of people who would do 2D artwork are switching to texturing, so there won't be the talented artists we need for 2D games, and every 2D game will be psuedo 2D, like Viewtiful Joe. That's fine but engines that are strickly 2D will suffer.


Van-B

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Anlino
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Posted: 17th Oct 2005 15:22
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I really enjoy great 3d graphics, but som really nice pixel graphics is a totally different case. Just to note: Ken silverman Did other things than creating Ken's Labyrinth. He was also the one to create the 3d engine for Duke Nukem 3d.
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Van B
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Posted: 17th Oct 2005 16:28
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I know, I still love 2D, but it's really migrating into art now, like pixel art just looks great.

The best pop video I've seen recently has to be that Junior Senior video, with like the evil squirrel, it's made like simple pixel animation but it's so cool .


Van-B

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Mr Pointless
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2005 00:53
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Quote: " 2D isn't dead at all. Just look at Castlevania!

Oh well, they're making a 3D one, but only one! 1!"


1 3D game my a**e!

Konami churned out 2 N64 games, 1 DC game got canned and they also did Lament of Innocence on PS2 (Which lost the subtitle for the UK. Why?). So Curse of Darkness isn't the only 3D 'vania

Quote: "Just to note: Ken silverman Did other things than creating Ken's Labyrinth."

His Tetris clone is is horrid. It had the name KEN spinning on the title screen and himself shouting "It's KENTRIS!". Ugh.

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Anlino
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2005 11:32
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Hehe, yeah. He also made a platformer, which had the name Ken in the name, and on many places in the game. He just loves his name to much...
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db programmer 12
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2005 22:08
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Yeah I'm surprised he didn't call BUILD Engine Ken's Great Game Engine.

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db programmer 12
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2005 22:09
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That's funny Kentris, man he loves his name

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Insanity Complex
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Posted: 27th Oct 2005 16:25 Edited at: 27th Oct 2005 16:29
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Quote: "3D:
You can move in 3D Space. In 2D you are just on a flat 2D surface. In 3D you can jump, and move about in a much free-er way.
Final Fantasy VIII
3D has virtually limitless possibilities.
"

You're forgetting FFVII thank you very much. In my opinion that was the best game in the series..and it wasn't even mentioned? Shame..

Quote: "Everything's got so sucky with 3D am I right?
"


That's very true. Not to say I don't enjoy 3D. It just seems, as it has been said already in this thread, a lot of gameplay has been lost. Something I've noticed is that with 3D games came much more in depth story lines, but also more sequences then gameplay... And I'll never let go of great 2d games...

Quote: "Would you rather play with a drawing of an airplane ona peice of paper, or a remote controlled airplane?"

I'd take the remote controlled airplane, but relevance to gaming is very low on that comment I think. Because it shouldnt be about the graphix. A good game is a good game. 3D graphix wont make a crappy game any better, it will just be a very detailed crappy game...

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db programmer 12
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Posted: 27th Oct 2005 22:38
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Very true DBPro Newbie. I agree with you all the way.

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dark coder
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Posted: 28th Oct 2005 03:09
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i think that 3dis better than 2d but for 3d you need to have alot more spacial awareness as to view somethings you may need to rotate around whereas 2d everythings on your screen at once, most 2d games were very simple yet very addicting and mainly down to use skill and responsiveness to get the highest score or whatever, but in most 3d games its rather hard and mainly down to luck.

say a game like r-type some enemys would lock onto your ship and fire every second or so so you would move your ship away from where your going to then once it shoots then you run through the gap in 3d games doing something like this is very hard as everything would look rather confusing unless its was a 3d sidescroller.

and alot of the popular 3d games are rather simple in terms of game play for instance counterstrike/c&c, c&c needs skill in how you deploy your troops to make sure you defeat your enemys, and cs is just get a gun and shoot anything that moves.


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WarGoat
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I don't know if you know that but, now lot of games are using 3D in 2D:

3D for the character and 2D to reduce the polygons count. Therefore, I think that 2D is very good, lot of game in 2D was , but I still think that 3D is greater than 2D.

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Anlino
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Posted: 28th Oct 2005 11:55
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There was a sidescrolling Shoot em up named Duke Nukem Manhattan project, or something like that. Maybe one of the best platformers i have played. Shows a nice way to use 2d gameplay in a 3d game.
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WarGoat
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Yep you're right.

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BlinkOk
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Posted: 30th Oct 2005 05:35 Edited at: 30th Oct 2005 09:40
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"alien homanid" origionaly a 2d flash based game was recently released as a console game. "gamer tv" gave it 4 out of 5.
gamespot review;
http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/action/alienhominid/

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Anlino
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Posted: 30th Oct 2005 16:12 Edited at: 30th Oct 2005 16:13
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Alien Hominid is in a class for it's own. A great example of a small 2d game that made it to the consoles. Stories like that brings tears to my eyes...
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indi
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3d is still a perceived notion of 2d on the screen, in essence if you want to get technical 3d games are still on a 2d screen making an illusion of 3d. virtual realtiy has been coming for years and i havent really seen it take off in major way for ages.

3d games are a mixture of 3d percieved elements and 2d elements.

mobile phones and smaller handheld devices as well as retro gamers still make a lot of 2d based games as well as many web based games.

I understand where your coming from but i dont agree.

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Insanity Complex
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Posted: 9th Nov 2005 15:37
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Quote: "3d is still a perceived notion of 2d on the screen"


That should go without saying, as If you look at your screen it should be obvious to you that you are looking at pictures, 3D can only be perceived as really 3D if you can touch it, and it has length width and height. Video games in my opinion should never reach that point because if they become too realistic I would have to quit for fear of losing my sense of reality completely. But that's just me

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Grog Grueslayer
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Posted: 9th Nov 2005 19:20 Edited at: 9th Nov 2005 19:22
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Quote: "I would have to quit for fear of losing my sense of reality completely."


That reminds me of the day I first saw a holographic video game. I was in a tourist town (off season) and the arcade was huge but didn't have very many people in it (just the local kids). Because there weren't many people in the arcade it felt like I was in the middle of some hick town in nowheresvill... then I see a game that produced 3D images I could put my hand behind, through, and in front of. I was shocked not only because it was a holographic game... but also because it was an amazing treasure (in this hick town) that nobody else seemed to care about. That was the only holographic game i've ever seen. I found out much later that it truely wasn't holographic but the way it was done appeared to be holographic and that's good enough for me.

I'm really surprised we don't have a home version of a sudo-holographic game system by now... that game was made in 91.

http://www.hortonaviation.com/timetrav/ttpics.html
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Insanity Complex
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Posted: 10th Nov 2005 01:40
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Thats the creepy lost sense of reality stuff im talkin bout man....just wrong

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Fneep
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Posted: 10th Dec 2005 07:16 Edited at: 10th Dec 2005 07:19
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@Insanity Complex:

I said:
Quote: "3D:
You can move in 3D Space. In 2D you are just on a flat 2D surface. In 3D you can jump, and move about in a much free-er way.
Final Fantasy VIII
3D has virtually limitless possibilities."


You said:
Quote: " You're forgetting FFVII thank you very much. In my opinion that was the best game in the series..and it wasn't even mentioned? Shame.. "


Did you read what I said later in my post?

I quote:
Quote: "Look, really 2D will never die. Just as you started up this thread, you must still Like 2D.
2D and 3D can even be Symbiotic together, They can live in harmony.
In Final Fantasy VII, there are lovingly crafted 2D sprited backgrounds, but the characters are fully rotatable 3D models. The effect is awesome."


And I agree, FFVII is the best in the series.

[OffTopic] Have you seen FinalFantasy VII Advent Children? It is a sequel to FFVII But in movie form [OffTopic\]

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2D Analyst
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2006 21:36
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2D game will never die out.

Evidences: Companies still re-release those old 2d game into the newer console system such as Capcom Greatest Hit Collection for PS2, Mega Man Anniversary Collection. Namco keeps on releasing those retro 2D games such Pac-Man, Galaga on various systems semi-annually or so.

Why: People still love 2D games, which captures certain elements that 3D can not capture alone.

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Vlad
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And as far as I'm concerned, it's easier to make a 2D type game, using 3D technology. I'm making a puzzle in 3D. Why? It's easier, at least I find it easier.

The only lazy people that can complete games are genius. You don't look like a genius, so you better stop being lazy.
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Tinkergirl
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Posted: 26th Jan 2006 16:17
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I know people who used to make 2d games on the Spectrum etc, who are now remaking those same games for handhelds and mobile phones. He's happy - he's making the same game, over and over and keeps getting paid for it. (Not my bag, but some people like easy work.)

Chances are, there will always be a place for 2d games while we continue to invent new places to put games. Right now, it's phones, maybe in a year or so it'll be on our clothes, maybe in a few years after that it'll be in skin implants.

Who can say
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Blazer
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Posted: 28th Jan 2006 19:18
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there are many 2d games just just have a certain feel that 3d can't come close to. Here are some examples:

Legend of Mana:





alien hominid:





there are many others. Some of these just look so good in 2d they shouldn't be remade. Unfortianetly 2d requires a lot of work which most people arn't willing to do.

I discriminate against discriminating people....
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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 28th Jan 2006 23:56 Edited at: 13th Aug 2006 21:52
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I personally like 2.5D the best.
(2D on 3D!)


Since the other one was scaring you guys so much...
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Dex chamelian
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we can just play a 3d game but 2d is the master i mean ghoul panic was great so was klonoa:door to phantomile and klonoa 2:lunatea's veil and AH
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Krimzon DestinE
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Posted: 24th Feb 2006 02:09 Edited at: 24th Feb 2006 02:33
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Quote: "
there are many 2d games just just have a certain feel that 3d can't come close to..."


2d is my favorite, but some games are better in 3d.

Quote: "SNK's even starting to go 3d! "


have you played the last 3d attempt they made? that game sucked eggs!!!

i believe some genres are best played in certain dimensions. fighting games are best in 2d, rpgs are good in both 2d and 3d, and sports games are best in 3d, for example.
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DB newbie
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Posted: 5th Mar 2006 19:36
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i like both. some 2D games have kind of a 3D appearence because of how it is renderd and were the camera is and the sprites. take red alert2 for example that kinda looks 3D even though it is not.

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poke a fish
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I like 2d a lot, lots of the best games are 2D, its just not used too much anymore. I personally like working in 3D the most.
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Ne0
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3D games that look like 2D games (2.5D lol) are the best in my opinion...


Some people know me as:
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Chris Franklin
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Posted: 7th Mar 2006 10:50 Edited at: 7th Mar 2006 10:51
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rofl Hotlinking is not nice don't do mmk o.0

Anyway isn't there a bit of 2d in 3d games

Edit:
That was strange i posted nearly 3 hours exactly after neo

Theme park simulator wip
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Computer Nerd
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Wow DBprogrammer12 althoigh dead on the forums have posted a hot one!

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tha_rami
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I like 3D. I like 2D. Doesn't matter which D it is in, as long as it is an involving, immersive, good game - I like it.

I like F.E.A.R. nearly as much as I liked StarCraft!

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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 8th Apr 2006 17:38
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I completely disagree with that in regards with RPG's. No matter how good a system gets 2D RPG's will ALWAYS be better than 3D as a whole.

Anyone remember the days of Terranigma, Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy Mystic Quest and Secrets of Mana? Ahhhh .

Now in days storylines get the backburner while graphics take the lead. In most cases that is, there are some cases where it's perfect.

I'm still giving 3D a change to redeem itself with RPG's. The Final Fantasy series is a good example as well as Kingdom Hearts.

3D is really truely awesome, especially with 3D shooters and it's ability to fabricate a reality for the user.

VR will take over 3D, and I'll wait till that day come anxiously. Until then I'll just stick to playing any "good" games in either Dimension.
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tha_rami
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Well, imho, the whole 'this dimension pwns that one'-discussion is useless. It's simply a personal choice and I personally played Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana and Terranigma - but with just as much fun played Final Fantasy in 3D, and other 3d RPG's.

It's nostalgia really, I think. It's like saying Prince of Persia is so much better than Sands of Time because back then they really focussed at gameplay. It's logic they focus on graphics - that's what's asked of them. I liked the early 3D games most (around 1996-2000) of all games. These were the best balanced games imho. Deus Ex, StarCraft, Ground Control. The time of Eidos, Sierra, Blizzard...

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Chris Franklin
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Posted: 1st May 2006 00:37
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heh just for the record 2d can be made to look like 3d hence my 2d wip

Theme park simulator wip boards

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Scraggle
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Posted: 1st May 2006 01:09
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Actually, what you have there is 3D objects created by Reiner Prokein, rendered and saved as 2D images. So, whilst it may be 2D now, it certainly started out as 3D.


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Labyrnth
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Posted: 3rd May 2006 11:31 Edited at: 3rd May 2006 11:35
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User Interfaces are 2D. Textures are 2D. This stuff is in 3D games.

I agree the best looking 2D starts out as 3d like scraggle said

2D is forever! heh this web site is 2D lol.

I think they call him scraggle cause his av is that scraggly old cat lol. Every time i see a post by you that cat makes me smile.

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