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Program Announcements / My retro entry - Snoogle Blox

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randi
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2003 09:09
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Here is my version of Q*Bert.
I have not tested it on any machine other than my own.
Please download and tell me how it plays on your system so I can fix anything that I need before time is up on the competition.

Screen Shot...


Download link...
http://home.att.net/~thetowers/snoogleBlox.zip

Thanks

Randi
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pathfinder
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2003 11:37
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thats really cute. I cant try it out till sunday though . But ill tell you how I get on with it.

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astranominoff
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2003 21:44
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I would download it, but I'm on a 56 gay modem.
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John H
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2003 22:47
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Looks nice

astranominoff: Please dont make comments like that as they are rather discriminatory.

RPGamer

Current - RPG: Eternal Destiny
http://www.halbrosproductions.netfirms.com
Dont ask those questions! Read the help files lazy!
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2003 05:07
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dang 7mb @ 2.5kb/s ... this could take a while (^_^)

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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randi
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2003 06:41
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If I can upload it on a 56k, you can sure download it.


Randi
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2003 07:41
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OMG... that is soooo much fun
controls are a lil awkard, but thats pretty awesome...

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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hexGEAR
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2003 17:19
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heh, this game made me find a new feature about my laptop ^_^ it didn't physically have any numlock buttons so i assumed it wasn't included but after putting on numlock, keys k,j,u,i became the numlock buttons 1,4,2,5 took me a while of random keypressing to find out though ^_^ this is a very cool game, the controls aren't that bad on my keyboard, i liked the bitmaps 'n' stuff, good work!

your birth was a blessing, sent to live and die on earth as a lesson, we each have a star all you have to do is find it, once you do, everyone who sees it will be blinded - DMX
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randi
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Posted: 24th Feb 2003 01:32
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Hmmm... didn't even think about laptops.
But I guess I don't have to now.

The controls can't be the arrow keys, since you move on angles.

I first had it so you can hold the keys down and move, but it made it too easy to jump off the edges.
So I made it like it is now, which actually is better.

At least it will help you with your finger coordination.

It doesn't bother me...
But then again I can type 40wpm and use the number pad without looking.

I am glad that you are liking it though.
Thanks for the kind words.

Randi
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Rob K
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Posted: 24th Feb 2003 02:07
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Great fun

"I can type 40wpm" so can we - but I normally never use the number pad. Still I found the controls pretty easy to get to grips with.

- BUGS

The scores file doesn't line everything up properly, judging from the scores.txt file the game just reads the text from the scores.txt file and prints it straight to screen - you need to parse it first so you can format it on screen

- SUGGESTED ADDITIONS

- Variety on the backdrops (Take a look at Virtual Insanity if you need some ideas - although they probably took ages to do!)
- More sound effects
- Small crash effect or something when your character gets squished or whatever
- More texture variety? (use scroll texture to get some nice FX )

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 24th Feb 2003 02:49
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well... personally i'd go with the classic control setup of 7 - 9 - 1 - 3
perhaps add a little thing so we can change the binds if we want

still alot of fun thou

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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randi
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Posted: 24th Feb 2003 05:46
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Darth Shader -
"The scores file doesn't line everything up properly"
It lines up good enough for me.

judging from the scores.txt file the game just reads the text from the scores.txt file and prints it straight to screen
Yes, that is what it does.

you need to parse it first so you can format it on screen
No thanks, it's just a score board I threw in there at the end.

- Variety on the backdrops
- More sound effects
- Small crash effect or something when your character gets squished or whatever
- More texture variety?
No time. It's a retro entry and time is about up I believe.
Also, believe or not; I do have a life other than DB.

I care nothing about being a computer programmer for a living.
I already have a career, plus I am in school to advance it.
I just do this to pass the time, and because I understand programming (for the most part), and I think it's fun, and I would like that video card.
Oh, by the way. Where is your entry?
(just playing, don't get mad)

Raven -
I started out using those keys, but I didn't like it.
They are too far apart. The keys I used are better, trust me.

Any way...
If it was up to the people on this board I would never be done.
I would be working on it until I am an old woman.
What do you people want for me?



Randi
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randi
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Posted: 24th Feb 2003 05:49
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That post sounds rude.
I did not mean for it to be rude at all.
It was all in fun.
Nobody take it the wrong way please.

Actually I thank everyone.

Randi
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 24th Feb 2003 05:50
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lol... well perhaps for you the key are better but for others not quite so much - this is why i suggest having a binder for the controls

sides you still have a month left until the deadline for the competition - plenty of time for some minor changes

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Rob K
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Posted: 24th Feb 2003 19:28
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"No time. It's a retro entry and time is about up I believe."

It finishes on April the fourth.

Anyway - the effects I described are easy to do:

Random Backdrop:

Have 5 JPGS in the textures folder just LOAD IMAGE "textures\"+str$(my_random_number)+".jpg" - EASY

Explosions - Just render an AVI to a plain and stick it where the player is

SoundFX - Just grab a few varied bonks and clicks from the web and do the random thing as with the image.

"Oh, by the way. Where is your entry?"

SpaceROADS - 1500 Lines so far, I would have had it ready sooner but I had to completely rewrite the collision system and I had to do a fair bit of optimisation of the core functions to get it running at 70-80FPS on a descent range of machines. There were a few screenies but RGT deletes attachments after a while

No offense taken - Your game was great fun and will probably do pretty well (Unfortunately mine has a habit of inducing lots of premature headbanging - which is just what Raven needs j/k )

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
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Rob K
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Posted: 24th Feb 2003 19:29
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"descent" - decent sorry. My bad spelling is an inherited thing.

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
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randi
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Posted: 24th Feb 2003 22:03
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AWE!!
You're right. I was thinking next month was the dead line.
I was using that to justify me being done.
Now I have to do all those things Darth Shader said.
X-(

Randi
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 24th Feb 2003 22:48
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Lol Randi, yeah similar fealing to: Your pride and joy is finished - you sort the files out - you archive it up - you put it online - you test the download - it crashes without an error message.

I thought it was a fun game, although I appear to have the playing skill of a labotamised lemming.

Pneumatic

Pneumatic Dryll, Outrageous epic cleric of EQ/Xev
God made the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
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hexGEAR
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Posted: 25th Feb 2003 00:29
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well, i guess it all boils down to how bad you want the gfx card ^_^

your birth was a blessing, sent to live and die on earth as a lesson, we each have a star all you have to do is find it, once you do, everyone who sees it will be blinded - DMX
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randi
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Posted: 25th Feb 2003 07:27
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"well, i guess it all boils down to how bad you want the gfx card ^_^"
You just had to say that, didn't you hexgear?
Didn't you!!??!!



Randi
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 25th Feb 2003 08:07
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gotta say personally the subscription to DBDN is more appealing (^_^)

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Van B
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Posted: 25th Feb 2003 11:59
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Arghh, this game used to drive me nuts on the C64 - Pogo Joe was a C64 version, with a little pogo man, very cool. Nice colourful graphics, I'll have to wait to download it though .

This is gonna be the biggest DB compo yet, I mean Rich has probably already got a few entries already, plus all those projects still being worked on. The deadline is around about the start of April, so we still have more than a month, plenty time! :/.


Van-B
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Rob K
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Posted: 25th Feb 2003 13:49
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"plenty time! :/. "

As a student I know what happens in a month's time from now

Actually IF I get my entry finished and working fine then I think I'll do another 24hour entry as a joke - the Darth Shade Last Minute Compo

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
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randi
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Posted: 26th Feb 2003 06:04
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What are Snoogles?
They are stuffed animals that I make by hand.
I give them as gifts.
Each one is different.
I never use the same material combination and I do not use a pattern.
Each one just comes from my head and hands.
I decided to use them as the subject of my retro game.





Just thought you might want to know.

Randi
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 26th Feb 2003 08:00
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cute

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Van B
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Posted: 26th Feb 2003 15:25
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I WANT A SNOOGLE!!!

Hehe, they look a little like Wombles, a cult British kids show from the 70's. They look great though - especially the one with the white streaked fur .


Van-B
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 26th Feb 2003 18:09
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probably the product of Gonzo (from the muppets) and one of the Wombles love child
and a little bit of those wise creatures from The Dark Crystal (anyone remember that film?)

hehee... i've always wondered what it is about women and fuzzy soft toys

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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randi
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Posted: 26th Feb 2003 19:06
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You are very close Raven.
The nose does come from Gonzo, but I never heard of Wombles.
Probably the rest comes from the Fragiles.
An old puppet show about fuzzy creatures.
I liked Dark Crystal too. Boring movie, but the look of it was great.
I am a big fan of Jim Henson.
The name Snoogles fits along with all of them.
Fragiles, Wombles, Snoogles, etc.

So let me ask you all a question.
If I was to make it, with my game, that if you get a certain number of points...
It asks you for a mailing address and then creates an encrypted text file, and you can email it to me and I will send you a Snoogle.
I think I could make the encryption so no one could break it, or at least hard enough no one would try...
but the question is, could someone break into the program and see how it is done, or trick the program into thinking it has the high score and make it create the text file?
Does that make sense?
How secure are DBpro programs in that way?

"i've always wondered what it is about women and fuzzy soft toys"
Sorry... I don't have an answer for you on that. We just do.
Especially me!!!

Randi
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 26th Feb 2003 19:42
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i've not exactly tried much :: looks innocent :: to break into the Professional EXEs ... but i'd say they're pretty secure as they stand.

As long as the information is kept within the program for the highscore required - i wouldn't create a txt file though ... would make a simple internal memory (memblock -> NetMessage)program that uploads to an FTP i set

that way people would have to scan the ports to capture the detail, and as long as you make some form of encryption that only you can understand - should be fine

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Arrow
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Posted: 26th Feb 2003 20:31
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The Dark crystal is my Favorite Movie!!! Jim Hemson is the greatest. Unless that score is quite outstanding, I thing you might wanna change for this bonus, especiallly if you win the contest. Anyway, you should sell those thing on the internet, you got three buyers here allready.

Am I a butterfly dreaming I'm a man?
Or a bowling ball dreaming I'm a plate of samishi?
Never assume that what you see or feel is real.
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Arrow
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Posted: 26th Feb 2003 20:33
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might wanna charge for this bonus...

Edit button still don't work

Am I a butterfly dreaming I'm a man?
Or a bowling ball dreaming I'm a plate of samishi?
Never assume that what you see or feel is real.
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randi
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Posted: 26th Feb 2003 20:48
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The high score would be VERY high to get one.
I am not going to send the whole world a Snoogle.
I would have to make it that they pay for shipping too, especially if it is over seas.

If someone wants to buy one they can.
I do not have a price right now, but like I said I give them out as gifts. I have never sold one.
It doesn't cost much for the material and it only takes about an hour to make one.
So it wouldn't be much.

As far as the FTP, Raven, I don't have a host to do that with.
I think I could make a text file with so much encryption and so many false garbage added into it that no one could break it.
Or at least so hard no one would bother trying.
I was just wondering if someone could get into the game and make it do it.
I would put in a note saying I reserve the right not to send one if I think it's false and I can discontinue the offer at any time.

Randi
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 27th Feb 2003 03:40
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oki perhaps not an FTP... suppose could make a simple emailer DLL for ya
setup the data as a pointer and pass it across

and i'd say normally these sorta things are in the shops for like £10-15 ($20-25) so i dunno would be a reasonable price for one

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
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randi
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Posted: 27th Feb 2003 07:36
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An emailer DLL, that would be nice.
I sure would like that.

As for the prices...
The ones with the short fur could be sold for less than $20.
I would say more like $10+shipping.
The ones with the long fur would be more, because that fur is not cheap at all.
They would be like $20+shipping.
This kind of thing has to be cheap or no one will bother buying one.

Randi
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Arrow
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Posted: 27th Feb 2003 07:37
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I think MrTaToad allready made one, I read something about it a while back.

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Shadow Robert
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knowing Toady he probably has... to be honest i have tried a few of his DLLs and - personally don't like the way the functions work, which was particially why i kept developing that OS Checker.

i think i could make a function that would make a pointer and which would then have the address passed automatically ... so really it just uses the data fitted, then construct and send the email via an smtp control

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
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pathfinder
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OMG Randi youve just put the Raccoons theme song in my head Thanks alot :/ Looks like Cederic's kids.

Run with us! ... wheres my medication

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Van B
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Ahh, Dark Chrystal, with those ugly Skelflings! - my dad would always look for fantasy videos with muppets for us, Labyrinth is great too - Fraggles!, they were really cool - I loved the little blue guys with the scafolding.

It would be fairly easy to make a .eml file, with all the details on it, then open it on the players computer, from there the email handler will open it for sending as a normal email - you could actually make the template email in Outlook Express, then save it as an .eml file, then load it in notepad and figure out what you want to change on it - then you can use DBPro's file access commands to create the .eml file. This would also let the player add any comments too. I have done this before, not with DB, but we're only talking about making a sorta text file, it's normal text, just a little more complicated is all. Also, as a secondary option, you could copy the encrypted key into the clipboard, so they could paste it somewhere. Perhaps a really cool idea would be that there's an online high score table, you'd be able to get the names and scores back from the .eml, so showing a top 20 would'nt be a lot of work really. You could even post it here.

As far as the code goes, I'd be very impressed with anyone that could crack a DBPro .exe and figure out an encryption technique from it - a lot of work to go through for a Snoogle!. Just be sure to remove the encrytion code when including the source code!. Also, you can encrypt DBPro .exes through the project options.


Van-B
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Rob K
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Hmm... Randi yes someone could break into the executable as you suggested possibly.

The problem would be that if the person knew what the score was on screen, then they could trace (step-through) the executable and find out which part changed that variable (ie. get the memory address of the variable). They could then change it to a much higher value and the magic screen would come up.

As for the emailing DLL someone could potentially set a breakpoint on the entrypoint and get the parameters for it.

However, I can assure you that it is not "dead easy" - someone would have to know what they were doing.

Just a few ideas to make life a little more secure:

- Just make sure that the number cannot be incremented unless points are scored (ie. when you set the score keep another variable copy of it and check the two)
- Between you and Raven devise some simple encryption for the emailer DLL perhaps

Remember that secure encryption is not very hard at all... most crackers DO NOT actually break the encryption, they either get the program to record the variable they are after somewhere accessible before encryption or (but not applicable in your case), they let the program do the decryption but they hack into the program afterwards to extract the decrypted data.

Van-B: Only the media is encrypted, I am pretty sure that the actual executable is not encrypted. Even if it was then it has to be decrypted at some point - at which time ProcDump could be used to dump the unencrypted version (yes there are ways of preventing this but I very much doubt DBS used them as they are pretty advanced involving runtime modification of the executable initalisation code and overwriting the DLL references ... but I am digressing )

@Raven - Yes I am sure there are plenty of holes you will be able to pick in what I have just said - So I have donned my asbestos jacket

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
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Shadow Robert
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using Internet/Broswer based features are just far too simple with Visual C++

however i'd be working more to the point of using a free port and making an STMP library do the work using the machine itself as the emailer, it gets around alot of things such creating external files and such.

personally i'd suggest she used a hex code encryption for the data ... so where the score is, you keep the code within Hex from the start - update using a bit partition

so like 0-3bit >> 1 5-8bit
would reduce the data to only 128 per byte, though if you do a hi-low endian for it ... even using a step-through editor it'd take a bloody long time to figure out all the code for that, thats if it is possible

however saving the stuff directly to memory if someone wanted they could graft from the core pointer the last memory pointer created and snatch the data if they wanted - would still need to understand the decryption thou

the whole thing would be quite a bit of work for the DLL coder, but still the knowlage needed isn't exactly extreme

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Rob K
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Posted: 27th Feb 2003 22:07
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seeing as you ARE the DLL coder I think that will be OK - That ideas sounds hunky-dory to me

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
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Rob K
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OK - I did an analysis of the current version of SnoogleBlox.

DBP exes are actually very strange compared to what I thought they would be - almost the entire program operates inside the DLLs, the main executable actually does very little. Even some aspects of variable management are done by the DLLs.

So - I thought about trying to hack the scoring system - the most logical approach was to get the memory address of the variable passed to the str$ function which resides in the DBProTextDebug.dll (because what is passed to the str$ function and as a result what actually ends up on screen has to be the number in its pure format), using that it is possible to modify the value of the score. I managed to crash the process a few times and completely disable scoring the other times but I did succeed in getting a rather world beating score of 100,000 after a few tries - as I said - DBP executables are REALLY strange.

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
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randi
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Posted: 28th Feb 2003 01:10
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Well that is not good Darth Shader.
So I guess this means that my idea is out?
And not something I should do?

Randi
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Rob K
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No - it means that you should check that the score doesn't suddenly change eg suddenly go from 100 to 100,000 - that, is easy to do. And because of the structure of DBP apps, it can be quite a pain to navigate around the core and the various DLLs in order to reset all the variables used.

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
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Electron
21
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Joined: 28th Feb 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 28th Feb 2003 16:56
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Hey Randi, I liked the game

Cheers

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Rob K
Retired Moderator
21
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Joined: 10th Sep 2002
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 28th Feb 2003 17:56
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@Randi

I tried the idea I suggested and I think that it will be OK. I would love one of those snoogles (Except my sis' would probably put on that puppy-dog eyes face and ask to "borrow" it )

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
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Shadow Robert
21
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Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 4th Mar 2003 14:11
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you see what i ment earlier then Rob? about if you wanted to hack the data your actually require the Global Pointers setup properly

As long as it is all with a base encryption within the program itself, there isn't really anyway anyone can access the data without knowing how the game is handleing it - and as you have alot of processing power at your disposal wouldn't take much to impliment anything to stop people (^_^)

Randi, grab my msn or yahoo! and talk to me over that later i'm sure i can figure something relatively unbreakable quickly ... i mean if you think about it, if its made even moderatly hard to break - then no one will bother for like a $20 soft toy
i mean someone would have to be pretty damnd cheap to do it anyways lol

i'm gonna have to buy one from you thou (^_^) they look cute, probably wait til i'm back in the states.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Kangaroo2
21
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Joined: 26th Sep 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 4th Mar 2003 23:10
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I wanna snoogle! Yay Jim Henson Rocks! ~ (in a dead kinda way rip ) ~ btw Randi the game is v cool, I'm impressed

Coming Soon! Kangaroo2 Studio... wait and quiver with anticipation! lol
samjones@kangaroo2.com - http://www.kangaroo2.com - If the apocalypse comes, email me
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