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Geek Culture / Is the industry starting to respect it's roots?

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Van B
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2005 15:09
Hi all,

Just keep noticing examples of how the games industry is getting a better attitude towards retro games etc.

I mean, emulation could really have been killed off 5 years ago when the legalities started looking like dollar signs for a lot of companies - it just seems that we have a nice healthy respect for retro in the industry now, from emulation to remakes, things seem a lot better than they were.

One awesome bit of nostalgia is the Double Dragon game when you complete 'The Warriors' extra missions; when you complete it all you get access to a Double Dragon arcade machine, uses the engine and graphics from the game but it screams DD!. The surprising thing is how damn good the little bonus DD game is, they spent a good deal of time on it rather than rushing it.

I just hope the big fishies like EA take heed and we see more of this stuff sneak into new games and consoles.


Van-B

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robo cat
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2005 18:44
Good to see when retro games are "hidden" in a more modern game rather than being a "selling feature". Take Donkey Kong 64. I was excited when I realised I could play the old classic version, but what made it better was the fact that it was a nostalgic surprise rather than an overused selling feature.

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Mnemonix
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2005 21:45
I agree.

If you give a person a crap game with good graphics and they play for 5 minutes. If you give them Sonic the Hedgehog or R-Type or any old retro game and they will play for hours.

I also think that retro games are good fun because they are generally more difficult to play.

Im glad that some companies are including subtle retro games in their titles

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robo cat
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2005 22:15
Retro games are great fun. I have one of those devices that plug into the telly and play retro games (105 for £20; not one of those rip-off 5 games for £30 things), and some of them are genuinely more fun than a lot of modern games I have. Difficulty on retro games is also brilliant. I think the key difference is the aim of the developer. Retro game developers (for arcade games) interestingly have the exact opposite goal than modern developers. Retro developers wanted you to play for as short a time as possible (to put cash into the machine again), but have as much fun in that time. However, modern developers actually go to great lengths to stretch the game as far out as possible. This intended restarting of the game in retro classics also means that the game gets straight into the fun of it (no build up and tutorial). Its amazing how the difference between a good and a bad game has actually reversed over time, now long/boring = good and short/fun= bad! The main thing I've noticed with the retro games is that at any time (note that it cant save) I could stop the game I'm playing and play another, but the pace doesn't change. I can then go back to the start of the first game I was playing, and I won't care. With modern games, this isn't at all possible. If you quit without saving, you actually don't want to have to play it again from the start. This actually says A LOT about modern games actually being boring and not fun. The fact that a player doesn't want to play it again without making progress towards the finish, suggests that actually the player justs wants to win and doesn't enjoy the game at all.

Simple... yet fun!
BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 4th Nov 2005 03:01 Edited at: 4th Nov 2005 03:03
It seems to me that we all love the retro because they were the first.
Innovation and evolution was a lot more common because they had to keep what was originally a novelty fresh. Games are at a plateau now, so release any generic first person shooter and you're guaranteed some mulah. Technology has improved dramatically, but slightly too fast in relationship to the growth of design and art (art, not graphics, 8bit sprites can have more aesthetic value than a normal bump mapped billion poly game character). The modern games that are revered as the best of the season typically are not just graphical improvements. Doom 3 and HalfLife 2 garnered mixed reviews because while people enjoyed upgrades of the classics some felt that all they got was a rehash. Psychonauts, Ico, and Katamari Damacy stand out for aesthetics combined with some solid (in the case of Psychonauts) if not incredibly fun and balanced (in the case of Katamary Damacy) gameplay.

What's funny is that most of the reviews I read for Psychonauts said the graphics were good. You can look at the game and tell it's not technically up to par with other games that are considered to have good graphics, what intrigued people was the art direction. Back in retro days you only had so many pixels to work with, so you had to make sure you used your limited resources to effectively communicate something. It's that core idea that modern games are losing track of.

So, I guess some developers are getting smart. I agree with the selling point junk. I had no idea that I could play the original Prince of Persia after I beat Sands of Time, so once I did it was so awesome.


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TKF15H
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Posted: 4th Nov 2005 04:28
Reminds me of Mortal Kombat 3: Ultimate where you could play a space invaders game at the end. Nothing changing or new, just a few companies realised their old releases would make great bonus/mini games. It's the programmer's efficiency pushed to the max by the power of... laziness.

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MicroMan
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Posted: 4th Nov 2005 16:34
Ah, I'm retro all the time, I think.

The best game ever - which I still load from time to time - is System Shock 2.

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Wiggett
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Posted: 5th Nov 2005 07:17
i'd like to play the warriors game, cause I loved the movie and tried making my own game of it at one stage, but I also don't wanna play it because rockstar are to marketed attitude, I hate them. As for double dragon that does sound cool

IanM
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Posted: 5th Nov 2005 18:11
Quote: "If you give them Sonic the Hedgehog or R-Type or any old retro game"


You start feeling your age when people call Sonic retro ... retro to me is C64, Speccy 48k and earlier

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re faze
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Posted: 5th Nov 2005 18:13
indi
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Posted: 6th Nov 2005 01:49
commodore vic 20 / 64 and amiga is retro for me
however i started years before these systems took over the world.

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Grog Grueslayer
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Posted: 6th Nov 2005 08:56
Some retro games are too retro. When I was a kid I loved playing Infocom text adventures. My friends said things like "You like THIS game?" and "Reading is dumb.".
robo cat
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Posted: 7th Nov 2005 18:07
Quote: "nah people just ran out of ideas."


People say that, but I think its actually unfair.

If a game involves jumping its called a platformer, and grouped with generic platformers.

If a game involves driving its called a racing game (though there are exceptions, such as Vigilante 8 type games), and grouped with generic racers.

If a game involves shooting its called a shooter, and grouped with generic shooter.

To be honest, its virtually impossible to make a game using now actions that have been used before. If its a sword, its an RPG like those before. The only way a game can be original is if it involves a new action. Kuru-Kuru-Kururin involves a new action/motion and is therefore deemed original (and it is). However, its unfair now to class any game with a similar motion to that in a previous game as unoriginal. With the vast numbers of games, unless its some new mind bendingly surreal motion, you can't make a game without using motion (running, jumping, flying, driving etc) that's been used before. You can't easily invent a whole new universe with an entirely different set of rules of physics, therefore no-one can technically make an original game that is classed with no other.

If you've followed this random ramble so far (writing as I think ), you can see that game critics are far too harsh concerning originality. People need to respect the fact that a good control scheme, or a good aiming system in a FPS or a good use of car physics (better than any before) can be original rather than good. Theres this weird idea that only a game's base concept (not the actual mechanics of it) can hold originality. Resi 4 as an example, may be considered unoriginal shooting; I, however, think that it is as original as any crazy brightly coloured retro platformer. The cutscene button input, the 3rd person cinematic camera angle, the pitch forks, the tipping over ladders. These components may make up an unoriginal concept, but the game itself is original in the way it is executed; as original as any retro game.

Sorry for the ramble! lol

Simple... yet fun!
HWT
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Posted: 10th Nov 2005 01:13 Edited at: 10th Nov 2005 01:15
Hi there

In my opinion, many things in life go back to their roots eventually. Even in music, take out the words and fancy instruments the basic structure for many many songs is the same.

Any true gamer knows where he/she started and where they've come from. Games are no longer just entertainment - they've become a way of life and any way of life has its history that must be held in respect.

HelloWorld Tommorrow
re faze
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Posted: 10th Nov 2005 02:05
indi
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Posted: 10th Nov 2005 11:08
but the stuff above the sun is new, and hot.

If no-one gives your an answer to a question you have asked, consider:- Is your question clear.- Did you ask nicely.- Are you showing any effort to solve the problem yourself 
robo cat
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Posted: 10th Nov 2005 20:00
Then its settled. We shall plan a voyage to the other side of the Sun to search for new games.

Simple... yet fun!

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