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Geek Culture / Want to make SERIOUS money!

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CJB
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Joined: 10th Feb 2004
Location: Essex, UK
Posted: 7th Nov 2005 02:17
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I am a complete Geek, and am more than capable of producing very high quality, commercially viable games and applications using DB-Pro.

Like many other people here, I would really like to do this for a living, but without having to re-mortgage the house to pay the bills for the next six months.

This isn't a 'team request', but more of an information request. Does ANYONE know how a team of DB-Pro enthusiasts could get sponsership to work full-time on a game (or application) project and get paid a real full-time wage for their efforts (obviously working to deadlines etc.)????

I'm certain (?) there are enough talented db-pro programmers around here to create a highly successful software house who could churn out great games and apps by the bucketload (if working on them full-time).

Who would a 'team' approach for sponsership? - A Publisher?

How would the 'team' get licence to create games for movies/tv shows/household appliances!?!? etc.

So many questions!

Hopefully someone at 'TheGameCreators' will know some of the answers.

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Megaton Cat
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Joined: 24th Aug 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: 7th Nov 2005 02:21
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People don't start doing DBP for the money.

And yes, there are some extremly talented coders on this forum, but those coders are knowledgeable enough to use C++ if they needed to for a Full-Time programming position.


The future is here, and I can't afford it.
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CJB
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Location: Essex, UK
Posted: 7th Nov 2005 02:47
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I am fluent in C++ (plus a number of other languages), and I have also worked as a Full-Time programmer (just not doing games). That's not really what I was asking.

I think DB-Pro should be taken a step forward and be used as a professional development product in a full-time game making environment with a team of highly skilled programmers/modellers/artists etc.

I didn't start using DB-Pro for the money either (in fact, the first time I used DB-Pro was when I was beta testing the very first release on DBDN - can anyone remember that text adventure game!! ).

I just think that if there was a sponser brave enough out there to take on such a project that he/she would be highly rewarded with some seriously good, professional results.

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BearCDPOLD
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Location: AZ,USA
Posted: 7th Nov 2005 02:48
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Nobody's going to pay you starting off dude. You've got to make something and get your name in the open. Make a good DBP game and submit it to download sites, and enter it into IGF and all that fun stuff, and then start working on something else, except look for somebody like Garage Games to sell & distribute. Nobody gets famous or makes big bucks fast.


I'm going to eat you!
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Data
19
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Joined: 26th Nov 2004
Location: Winnipeg,Canada
Posted: 7th Nov 2005 04:57
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I think the best way to do this would be to make a game. Create a interesting and extensive game with no bugs with dbpro. Write a Design Document that includes all the graphics/rules. Then send it to a publisherlike Hasbro or Microsoft if you wanna try your luck. If they accept you will get money. Here are simple steps to do this.

1. Create the design document including the story board etc.
2. Decide on what kind of graphics/use rough sketches.
3. Make a beta version including all important features.
4. Send to publisher. If the publisher accepts then you can start making the game. If you can't do it all by yourself the publisher may give you a budget to pay people.
5. Make the actual game.
6. Send the game to the publisher.
7. Publisher may edit the game.
8. Game is published.
9. You get paid.
Remember you only get paid after the game is complete so make sure to make the game quickly yet efficiently.

Data

Money isn't everything.... You need something to spend it on.
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Jeku
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Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 7th Nov 2005 06:53
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Quote: "Remember you only get paid after the game is complete so make sure to make the game quickly yet efficiently."


Where did you hear that? Any good publisher will pay you in prescribed installments.

To get a publishing deal from Microsoft or a big-name publisher is, nowadays, next to impossible. The company I work for just finished a playable demo for a new Xbox 360 racing game, and we're having a hell of a time getting it published.

Your best bet would be to go for smaller publishers like BearCDP said (GarageGames, etc.).

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 7th Nov 2005 12:07
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I think the indie game market is horrendously saturated. Creating something that will even be noticed is next to impossible, unless it is utterly ground-breaking. I don't think any publisher out there would stump up cash to fund development of something from just a concept - you'll need a damn fine demo, complete project plan, team ready and in place, etc before you'd even get past the door for a meeting.

You can of course go the "sell it yourself" route, but to earn enough to pay full-time wages of a whole team? It's doubtful, unless you're going to create the next Darwinia or something :-\

I reckon there's real money to be made in mobile games to be honest, but even that is getting a very clustered market. Some publishers are moving into the "smaller" "download and play" market, like Codemasters, so with the big guns coming in I expect things to get harder for true indies.

The only saving grace is this - it doesn't matter WHO you are, if you make a GOOD and unique game then people will want to play it, magazines will want to talk about it, and publishers may then show an interest in you!

The downside of course is that this doesn't happen very often But hey, it has to happen to someone! *somebody* out there has the next Tetris inside them, for example.

(it's just not me.. damn it)

People don't quit playing because they grow old. They grow old because they quit playing.

http://www.corephp.co.uk
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CJB
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Location: Essex, UK
Posted: 7th Nov 2005 12:55 Edited at: 7th Nov 2005 12:59
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Okay, so it does look like I will have to re-mortgage if I want to do this. I've already spoken to a friend who is a mortgage broker and independant financial advisor. I only have about £80,000 equity in my property, and as I would not be able to prove any income I will only be able to take the LTV up to 90%. So I should be able to get my hands on around £57,000 to fund my project (I won't want to borrow that much obviously, but it's nice to know that I will be able to get the funds if I need them!).
I'm also trying to get in touch with GarageGames at the moment to see how they do things.

Time to get working on that 'detail design' doc!

Rich> I heard the creators of the original Tetris didn't earn a penny out of it! So I'm not that interested in making the next one!

I just want to be able to earn out of doing something I enjoy. Wishfull thinking eh.

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indi
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Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 7th Nov 2005 13:18 Edited at: 7th Nov 2005 13:19
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tetris was made by two russian guys while they were at a uni and the uni shafted them with copyright, thats the basis of the plot to tetris.

dont think about the money until you get past at least a working prototype. your just whipping yourself into a lather, we have seen them come and go here for about 5 years, your not the first and probably not the last.

Dont let that discourage you either tho, im just telling you what your doing is probably thinking about the wrong components first and money isnt the end all be all of good gameplay and design.

Ive spent about $1500 on my game, photoshop having owned it before as a graphic designer / multimedia artist was the most expensive peice of software in the whole product cycle, I have not worked on my game for about 5 months due to work and other commitments.

your going to find it difficult to keep to a schedule when the development cycle of DBP is still being developed itself,you would be foolish to embark on a financial product when DBP is still not fully bugfree and ironed out.

i scrapped a 15000 line editor for now when one of the patches screwed over the whole development angle i was heading in.

I rewrote my game about 3 times, I ended up with something completly different to what i had planned and its far from finished after 3 years tinkering in DBP and maybe a years of serious coding once i knew how to code the structure well with many failed attempts.

have a look then have a play of the alpha i last compiled yonks ago.

[href]www.lunarpixel.net/dt[/href]
[href]www.lunarpixel.net/dt/tmp/dt_de_t11_pub.zip[/href]


DONT MORTGAGE YOUR HOUSE to dev a game, thats a foolish venture where even angels fear to tread.

If no-one gives your an answer to a question you have asked, consider:- Is your question clear.- Did you ask nicely.- Are you showing any effort to solve the problem yourself 
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Dave J
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Posted: 7th Nov 2005 13:27
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Quote: "tetris was made by two russian guys while they were at a uni and the uni shafted them with copyright, thats the basis of the plot to tetris."


The same thing can (and probably does) happen at our Uni, anything you create on-campus that isn't under your course syllabus actually belongs to the Uni. Our Uni even has a dedicated division which spends all their time trying to find student's work they can exploit and rip off, it's scary but true.


"Computers are useless, they can only give you answers."
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Van B
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Posted: 7th Nov 2005 13:43
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Tetris was written by a Russian dude, working for a Russian company, therefore the copyright always belonged to Russia, that's why Alexey never got paid, he wrote it while being paid by a company - I don't think any company would keel over and hand it to him, let alone a Russian one. When people from Atari and Nintendo haggled with the Russians, it was with someone from the company, not Alexey. There was quite a battle for the rights to Tetris - Atari came off really badly because they thought they had the rights in the bag, instead they ended up with thousands of copies of Tetris that were completely useless, some would say a vital nail in Atari's coffin.

Legally speaking you'd be in the same boat if you were working for EA and developed a sellable game, they'd snatch it right from you and give you a percentage probably, there's no way you could claim the copyright as your own.


Van-B

Put those fiery biscuits away!
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indi
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Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 7th Nov 2005 13:46 Edited at: 7th Nov 2005 13:46
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i found a cool article if anyone is keen
http://www.atarihq.com/tsr/special/tetrishist.html

edit: oh vanb has basically covered it already, sorry mate.

If no-one gives your an answer to a question you have asked, consider:- Is your question clear.- Did you ask nicely.- Are you showing any effort to solve the problem yourself 
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Tinkergirl
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 7th Nov 2005 14:49
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Actually, any and all creative work made my an employee of your average game dev studio belongs to the company. Whether game related or not. Its not yours, it's theirs.

End of story.

(Contracts are depressing things)
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Van B
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Posted: 7th Nov 2005 15:35
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Yeah, strangely though, I've ended up working for a completely IT-stupid company. I don't have a contract like that, in fact I've never signed anything here.

Yet I'm the sole developer of all the systems used here - if I left then BLEH!, if I decided to sell this stuff then I could. Not that I operate like that - I'm happy just having the job security and salary as opposed to being a consultant.


Van-B

Put those fiery biscuits away!
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BatVink
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Posted: 7th Nov 2005 16:38 Edited at: 7th Nov 2005 16:39
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Firstly, I wouldn't recommend remortgaging your house on something you can't guarantee will return at least something.

Secondly, I think you need to readjust your approach if you are serious about this. There's no reason not to try and make money, but you should look at this as a business idea, not as a game you plan to make money from. It's very easy to look at your own work and like it for the same reasons that nobody else would look at it. If you approach it as a business venture, you will see it more logically. That is:

Why someone would buy my product
Why it's better than the competition
How much time is realistic to spend on each aspect
etcetera, etcetera, etcetera

Good Luck!

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Jeku
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Posted: 7th Nov 2005 17:22
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Quote: "Rich> I heard the creators of the original Tetris didn't earn a penny out of it! So I'm not that interested in making the next one!"


Well Pajitnov did make his money in the end, as he's living in North America working for Spectrum Holobyte (or at least he was).

But DON'T remortgage your house for this! 99% of people do not make money in this field. Let's be realistic--- unless you have the next killer app you WILL lose your money. Stats show that 9 games out of 10 that are published and on the shelves lose money. It's the 1 hit game that makes up for the losers.

Quote: "Actually, any and all creative work made my an employee of your average game dev studio belongs to the company. Whether game related or not. Its not yours, it's theirs.

End of story."


Yes this is often the case. But when you get the job, if you have any existing works, make SURE you add them to your inventions when you get hired. They can't touch those

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CJB
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Posted: 8th Nov 2005 15:08
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Thanks for the info. Don't worry, I will not rush into anything without investigating its vaibility first.

It would be nice to have an old-fashioned software house though - churning out games and applications - whether from our own designs, or bespoke for third parties.

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