Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Information on 3DS max models

Author
Message
kombucha
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Nov 2005
Location: n00b-land
Posted: 7th Nov 2005 03:54
Link
This is the first in what is likely a long set of newb questions from yours truly, and I appreciate all the help I'm sure you guys'll provide.

What do I need to know about using 3DS models (in a nutshell)? What makes them incompatible? I am using 3ds max 7, and realize DB must not be able to handle a lot of things. Some examples:
How does it handle bipeds and biped animation? If it doesn't, how can I use biped animation but then convert it into something DB understands?
Can I have multiple objects in one model file?
Can it handle all the modifiers or should I always convert to poly when I am done?
Does it like polys or meshes best?
Do materials always stay with the model?
What else makes models incompatible w/ DB?

Also, on another note, I just finished the Beginner's Guide.... book, and it certainly skimped out on the whole "3D game" thing... aka the good stuff. Where can I find GOOD tutorials for DB Pro that go step by step in making a 3D game? I know there are a few here, but I'd love a really in-depth, explanatory tutorial that will carry me out of the womb and onto a good product that I understand.

Thanks for the help!

come chill at http://www.gamemilitia.com/forums/index.php?refer=kombucha284
Back to top
Profile PM Website
SoftMotion3D
AGK Developer
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Aug 2005
Location: Calgary,Alberta
Posted: 7th Nov 2005 07:43
Link
humm.....what ive learned using the older version of 3ds max r3 is that if you import objects to 3dsmax and export it to 3ds file afterwards it generaly doesnt work.....well at least not for me. Second when your making objects in 3dsmax to use in darkbasic....they have to be limb animations....if you animate by bending nerbs...or whatever they call them....the actual segments of the objects. The animation wont work. So if you make a character make all his joints that you wanna move...seperatable.

other then that... i think 3ds is the way to go when making objects animate in darkbasic or dbpro. And if ya realy want theres converting tools that convert 3ds object with animations to x format.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Cash Curtis II
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Apr 2005
Location: Corpus Christi Texas
Posted: 7th Nov 2005 07:51 Edited at: 7th Nov 2005 07:52
Link
.3DS format is terrible in DBP. Use .x format. You can use the Panda export plugin, just search for it.

General guidelines :

1. Your models need to be low polygon. DBP will load high ones, but they will work poorly in a game. or crash the program. Learn to substitute good textures for high polygon counts

2. Use one object per file - it will simplify placement, portability, and game dynamics

3. Materials DO NOT stay with the model

Study animated models, and it will give you a better understanding of everything. The Darkmatter models are great as a learning tool. Once you understand what DBP wants, it's possible to produce it.

The simplest thing you can do is create an acceptable model and animate it with Character Shop. That is to say, if you don't understand 3DS Max, you'll be lost for a long time.

Of course, you can animate your stuff in 3DS Max, just do the tutorials that come with the program. I can't explain the process better than the documentation can.

BTW, this should go in 3D Discussion, not DBP. This topic is for DBP related talk.

Back to top
Profile PM
Van B
Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 7th Nov 2005 15:55
Link
For me the transition of .3DS to .X is using CharacterFX to animate is ideal - like you just import a .3DS, rig it, animate it, then export it as a .X that loads neatly into DBPro with the default settings in CFX (bar the scale).

3DS is great for compatibility, but terrible for DBPro as Cash already said - really everyone please forget loading .3DS into DBPro - even using the old 3DConv tool supplied with DBC would be fine.


Van-B

Put those fiery biscuits away!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
2D Analyst
AGK Developer
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd May 2004
Location:
Posted: 7th Nov 2005 17:40
Link
"3. Materials DO NOT stay with the model"

The materials can stay with model as long as you have the texture file saved in the same directory as the model.

eatfishy
Back to top
Profile PM Website
kombucha
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Nov 2005
Location: n00b-land
Posted: 8th Nov 2005 05:59 Edited at: 8th Nov 2005 09:20
Link
@eatfishy - to keep my materials with the model, how should I export them in 3ds max? what format/how?

@smd - I didn't understand what you were saying about animation. does regular biped animation work? does normal keyframe (no biped) animation work?

@cash - 3ds max isn't the problem, I'm very proficient there... so I think this is fine in this forum because it's compatability w/dbpro i'm worried about specifically. also, how low-poly do you consider low-poly?

other questions - 3ds max 7 incorporated character studio into it... now it's one big program...
why does converting to .x at the end help?
can materials have reflections/refractions/transparency? how does dbp handle that kinda stuff?

i'm going to attempt a small 2d game w/ 3d models to get the hang of dbpro, so thanks for the continuing support!

Your signature has been erased by a mod, NO political signatures please.
Back to top
Profile PM Website
2D Analyst
AGK Developer
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd May 2004
Location:
Posted: 8th Nov 2005 17:18
Link
The best format to export would be in .x format with the panda plugin (you can search this on google easily) The model won't be exactly the way it'll appear on 3D MAX to DB PRO. You have mess around with the .x export configuration setting. My AIM is Eatfishy...just im..it'll be easier.

[href]www.creepyfish.com[/href]

eatfishy
Back to top
Profile PM Website
CJB
Valued Member
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Feb 2004
Location: Essex, UK
Posted: 8th Nov 2005 19:42
Link
I've been having trouble with using more than one texture on a .x

I'm not trying to blend textures or anything, just have two (or more) seperate texture images mapped onto different areas on the model (i.e. for a large landscape, I want a texture for the sand on the beach, grass for the fields, rocks for the mountains etc.) - Now, unless I try and get all those textures onto a single image and then do some really tricky uvmapping, it doesn't work! - i.e. it all looks great in 3dsmax, but DB-Pro just gives me a white object - no textures get loaded at all, unless I'm only using the one texture.

I've read a few posts about problems with 'multi-texturing' on .x models - is this what they are on about?

@TGC - any chance of a DBO plugin for 3dsmax?

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
kombucha
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Nov 2005
Location: n00b-land
Posted: 9th Nov 2005 03:43
Link
well I played around with it some more today and had some problems, but I guess they all had to do with some bones -
I was loading Half-Life 2 animations/models which use the skin modifier I guess, and I can't use that in DBPro - is there any way to convert skin to physique or even just take the bones animation and get rid of the bones? I want to like keyframe the mesh at every frame - is that possible?
Also, I got panda, it's pretty nice - any suggestions on settings I need to pay attention to?

Your signature has been erased by a mod, NO political signatures please.
Back to top
Profile PM Website
SoftMotion3D
AGK Developer
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Aug 2005
Location: Calgary,Alberta
Posted: 10th Nov 2005 01:32 Edited at: 10th Nov 2005 01:40
Link
im not shure what you mean about biped animation....im not familar with very many terms at all.
The key frame slider on the bottom works as long as you have (animation) selected. If you dont then it will just change its position or angles it was prevesly at. When you start out doing an animation....lets say a character walking for example:

what you need:
you have a 3d character that has seperated limbs
use the link tool found in one of the bars on top...looks like 2 boxes with a line drawn to the other one. (that means link objects together) The tool beside it shows 2 boxes with the line broken...wich means unlink.

i usualy use the body as the main center point of the character.
if i move the center it will move all arms and limbs that are attached. If they dont move with your center point use the link tool.

when using the link tool drag the object to connect first to the limb you want thats in control of the other one...eg. drag hand to bottom arm...drag bottom arm to upperarm....drag upperarm to body.

then head to neck.....neck to body

just follow those steps to connect your character together

note:
also one thing to remember....make shure your arms and legs and body arnt all connected as one object. If they are the only way you can bend them is with the modify mesh commands..(that is what darkbasic will not tolerate.)...it will only if the animation doesnt involve bending in the key frame of the animation.

that was one of the first things i tried that failed.

a box that twisted in the animation sequence.
so it didnt have any limbs...it was a solid object that just bended in the frames back and forth...


ok understand any of that?
Its kinda funny but i dont know every thing about 3ds max either...but ive been playing around on it for 5 years now just pressing functions to see what they do.

I can make anything now and take advantage of all the stuff that works for darkbasic. It just takes a bit of messing around to learn using it.

oh ya another thing:::
panda export sucks!!!!!!!!!!! it doesnt save the animations.(at least not for me)...id rather use the dbc's converter..(its known to work well) for those that dont know: it converts 3ds to x and keeps the animations and textures maped to it...as long as you copy the texture files to that directory.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
kombucha
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Nov 2005
Location: n00b-land
Posted: 10th Nov 2005 02:49
Link
alright, well that doesn't work so much because skin and biped animation are two different things that I still don't know how to convert (to one another). it is when the body is all one model but there is an internal skeleton that the vertices are all linked to... it works out well, I always use biped, but DBpro can't for some reason...
I also had some more importing problems today, though I did a test with a simple teapon with material and that worked - I'll try some animations tomorrow, but I still want limitations and fixes and conversions and the like.

Your signature has been erased by a mod, NO political signatures please.
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Legendx
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 13th Jan 2005
Location:
Posted: 10th Nov 2005 06:58
Link
Kombucha,

i can confirm bipeds and physique together DO work in DBPro (5.8)...

I also use MAX7 with Panda Xporter...I first model a character, texture it (you must use UV Unwrap modifier), make a biped and use Physique to attach the model to the skeleton. Then I animate the biped and make sure all the skin deformation is correct. I then export to .x using Panda(make sure you got the latest version that suports MAX7) and load into DBPro. Everything works fine, if you have all the right settings and take note of the following:

i) make sure you hide the biped completely before you export your model from MAX or else it will still appear in DBPro
ii) make sure you collapse your UV Unwrap modifier so that the only modifiers still visible are Physique and Edit Mesh/Edit Poly
iii) in Panda settings make sure you choose "position, Rotation cale" instead of Matrix and you must choose to include animation and to include bones.
iv) MAX will map the path to the textures, so if for example you have blah.png on your desktop that is textured to your model in MAX, when you export the model, it will remember where the file is (i think there's a setting in Panda for this too)...otherwise yes, include the texture maps in your DBO program/project directory.

regards
Back to top
Profile PM
kombucha
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Nov 2005
Location: n00b-land
Posted: 10th Nov 2005 23:17
Link
cool, that was very helpful - I made a mistake in that last post though, I knew physique worked, it was Skin that doesn't work (and that's what the HL2 models are).

I also don't know what the UV Unwrap modifier does - is it a mapping mod? thanks for the other tips, anyone got anymore? If I don't use the UV unwrap, what happens?

coming soon.... sorry mods
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Legendx
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 13th Jan 2005
Location:
Posted: 11th Nov 2005 03:55
Link
UV Unwrap modifier is really essential in texturing your models

It is MAX's built in unwrap tool, which allows you to unwrap the model and paint on to the surfaces (once you export the maps for use in photoshop or other painting tool - i use the 'texporter' plugin for MAX7 - you can find it easy - just Google it)

If you dont use this method, i found the textures dont get applied on the .x model when you load it into DBPro...the strange part is if you just apply textures (blanketly) to models via the material editor but dont use the uv unwrap mod they should work ok in DBP, but then of course you wont be able to adjust the uvs to yr liking...
Back to top
Profile PM
Back to top

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2025-06-10 05:59:12
Your offset time is: 2025-06-10 05:59:12