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DarkBASIC Discussion / Blitz 3D?!

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Lucavi
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 18:14
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I recently visited the Blitz 3D website, and I took a look at some of the screenshots. The 3D is amazing! There were a few that even surpassed games such as Fable. as I about to embark on my first "big" program (a 3D rpg), I was wondering whether it is possible to produce simimlar visual effects using DBC. I know graphics aren't that important, so I'm also wondering how different coding is for Blitz, becuase I'd have to spend ages re-learning the code.
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 18:28
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Download the trial and see. You're hardly going to get a non-biased response from this forum (or theirs!)

Exit Planet Dust
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Lucavi
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 18:58
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Well, I was just wondering whether it's possible to create better visuals in DBC. I've not seen many DBC games, and those have cool graphics but not quite as good as the ones I saw.
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blanky
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 18:59
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Blitz 3D <-> DBPro
BlitzBasic <-> DBC

Their language is too complicated, although they have loads of nice samples with the trial.

16-colour PNGs pwn.
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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 19:27 Edited at: 28th Nov 2005 22:54
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Quote: "You're hardly going to get a non-biased response from this forum (or theirs!)"

i'll give you a non biased opinion Lucavi... i've licensed both, and post on both forums... and i'm not a fan boy of either...

Quote: "Their language is too complicated,"

nonesense... both languages are dialects of BASIC... there is more similarity than there is differences between the two... While DBPro has a lot more commands that do things for those not knowledgeable enough to code em themselves, Blitz has a more logical and intuitive syntax...

The advantage that DBPro has right now compared to Blitz3D, and this is only for those people like myself, who are chasing down the same graphics that you see in DOOM3 and Quake4, is the fact that DBPro is DX9 capable, and Blitz3D is not... this means that using the native language, you can create DX9 shadered effects with DBPro...

The one thing that you've gotta keep in mind Luc, is that those stunning demos are the products of the developers, and not the language they use... texturing, animation, level making tools, all play a part... as does the knowledge and talent that goes into making something... whether it be in DBPro or Blitz3D...

a bad coder, modeller, or texture artist will make a bad looking game in either... anyone who tells you any different here or on the Blitz forum should be ignored.

there are many fanboys who act like as if they must've had something to do with the creation of either of the languages, and they will go out of their way to put down and denegrate the other language, any time it is mentioned... these people are uninformed and don't have the faintest idea of what they are talking about...

then there are those, on both forums, who will give you the straight and skinny... listen to these people, for they are the ones that know what they are talking about... and they'll be able to give you a sound, factual solution to whatever you need to know...

--Mike
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SimSmall
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 22:49
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I find Dark Basic easier to understand (somehow) - writing code in Dark Basic seems to me, like pidgin english...

To load a sound and play it in both languages

Dark Basic
load 3dsound "media\ufo.wav",1
play sound 1

Blitz 3D
sound=Load3DSound("media/ufo.wav")
EmitSound(sound,ufo)

(ufo is the entity (object in this case) which played the sound)

Both do exactly the same thing... play a sound (except in dark basic you position the sound separately) - really it just depends which of those 2 command sets you'd find easier to work with...

...maybe one day I'll finish a project
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geecee3
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 04:24
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the language is only as good as you are a programmer, you could buy the best game dev system out there and if you cant code, it's not going to do it for you. Given the right amount of time and talent, virtually anything is possible in either of these languages. The graphical prowess of the language is only as good as the media it's fed with or the code that generates or supports it.

there are fundimental differences between blitz and DBP, in fact a direct comparison between a blitz program and a dbp program that performs the same task will show this clearly. For me, DBP has the better syntax and is easier to understand. I also own Blitz3D but choose to useDBP for its easier comprehension and additional features.

you only get out what you put in.

Ohd Chinese Ploverb say : Wise Eskimo, not eat yerrow snow.
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 07:08
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The DBP community, on the whole, is rather good. A lot of people working on a lot of projects, and most any problem you'll have has been addressed before. I went through about a year of learning and never posted a single thing, just kept using search. And DBP is a good language - powerful, easy to use. Download both trials and see how you like them.


Pong y2k.5 - Balls of Steel, Beta http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=60999&b=8
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Dodic
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 20:41
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lucavi ? is that like lukavi ? croatinan , slovenian , slovakian , serbian ?

http://dodica.proboards75.com/index.cgi
first 20 are mods. i have 9 sofar.
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Lucavi
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Posted: 30th Nov 2005 00:17
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The name Lucavi is derived from a nickname of the devil, or something. I inherited it from Final Fantasy Tactics (PSX). It's kind of cool becuase people often shorten it to "Luc", which is pretty cool for an internet nickname, certainly better than "SuperMarioxxx9676861337".

In reply to "Mike": Thanks! I've searched the forums on Blitz posts, and I think yours is the most helpful ever! I think I'll stick with DBC, as others have posted about how much easier it is, and more about my work than the porgram language creators (thanks for the posts guys!). I hope every post I make is helped this much!
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blanky
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Posted: 30th Nov 2005 19:28
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The programmer can be limited by the language, and the language can be limited by the programmer. Pick a language, make sure it's got everything you'll be using for a while, and then sit down and learn it.

DBC is easy to program for, and moderately easy a programming language to master.

Perseverance and bothering to think things through will make up at least 80% of every game...

16-colour PNGs pwn.
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Bush Baby
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Posted: 30th Nov 2005 22:14 Edited at: 30th Nov 2005 22:15
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Quote: "Blitz has a more logical and intuitive syntax...
"


Bull.
DB's syntax is more ENGLISH than anything else, how is THAT more complicated? Unless you're from a non-english speaking backround, then it isn't!


Blitz:
sphere=createsphere(30)
DB:
make object sphere 1,30

Hm. Even to make a sphere, DB makes more sense!
Why? It's in plain ENGLISH!!


We will take over the world!
Let our reign begin, CHARGE BUSH BABIES!
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SimSmall
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Posted: 30th Nov 2005 22:45
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Quote: "Bull."


uh, oh... This is what happened last time we had this sort of reaction... (Only for a different subject)

...maybe one day I'll finish a project
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empty
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Posted: 30th Nov 2005 22:48 Edited at: 30th Nov 2005 22:49
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Erm neither of it is plain english. Or would you say "Write Program Game"?
Also, having a syntax close to the English language doesn't make it more logical, cause actively spoken languages tend to be rather illogical.

It's simply a matter of taste what kind of syntax you prefer.


Play Nice! Play Basic! Version 1.089
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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 1st Dec 2005 01:54
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hey bushbaby... look for a second at your reply...

Quote: "Bull.
DB's syntax is more ENGLISH than anything else, how is THAT more complicated"


now look at the statement that you are replying to...
Quote: "Blitz has a more logical and intuitive syntax..."


now where do you see ENGLISH... or COMPLICATED in the bottom statement... i see LOGICAL and INTUITIVE...

as you learn a bit more about programming languages bushy, you'll find that verrrrrry few of em have spaces in the commands and/or function calls... ergo, Blitz's syntax is more inline with most BASIC dialects, as well as other programming syntaxes when compared to DB or DBPro...

there are other reasons why i made that statement as well... a lil too long winded though to go into here... but i think most DB coders already know em...

--Mike
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Deadwords
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Posted: 1st Dec 2005 02:14
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I know nothing about DBC, but in DBpro, everything is possible. You can redo Quake 4 in DBpro, but your machine will not support it. But, you can do awsome graphics. All is in your machine, a bit in DBPro.

Skalex Productions| Website Finished | ChaosZone

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General Sephiro
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Posted: 1st Dec 2005 02:42
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First: A bad carpenter will blame his tools, it doesn't matter what programming language you use, it takes dedication to create decent graphics.

Second: first "big" program (a 3D rpg), nice choice of a first big game, i'd suggest only do it, IF you're actually going to follow through with it and don't expect it to take a few days it could take months/years... depending on how dedicated you are.

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Lucavi
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Posted: 1st Dec 2005 15:33
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I've changed to an RTS now But i'm having trouble with unit selection.
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SimSmall
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Posted: 1st Dec 2005 16:19 Edited at: 1st Dec 2005 16:19
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Nothing wrong with spaces in commands, if that's how your brain works... As long as it knows what you're trying to do, and you know what you're trying do, then both work equally well. I Actually prefer only using brackets for commands that return values.

I've just started VB at college, not too many brackets in that, as of yet, but we've not done much advanced programming yet, so I can almost translate my DB knowledge over 1:1 (of course there are some syntax variations...)... This normally leaves me time to twiddle my thumbs at the end. And this is slightly straying away from the subject here, so I'll shut up...

...maybe one day I'll finish a project
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blanky
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Posted: 1st Dec 2005 16:39
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VB6 was my first language..! That and .Net are really nice languages, SimSmall. Really you can make libraries that look no different to the built-in ones, which has got to be one of my favourite bits. And I love the syntax.

@Red Ocktober: Chill pill, man. Try not to insult everyone.

16-colour PNGs pwn.
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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 1st Dec 2005 18:44 Edited at: 1st Dec 2005 19:05
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Quote: "Red Ocktober: Chill pill, man. Try not to insult everyone"

ya know... i'm really gettin a lil tired of you and your childish foolishness... how can anything i said above be construed as an insult to anyone... by anyone with half an ounce of intellect...

everything that doesn't fit into your fragile lil perception of the world is seen as an insult to you... a sign of serious issues, needing serious treatment...

really, you need to grow up... fast... or don't... but either way, don't try and bait me into lowering myself into the sewer you call an existance again...

please people... ignore him... lets not let another thread degenerate to where the last one went... no one was being insulted...


--Mike
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tpfkat
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Posted: 1st Dec 2005 20:27
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what documentation does blitz3d come with,does it have good teaching tutorials or the usual db approach of "heres the commands go figure it out",becuase if it has good documentation then i might get it myself.
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Bush Baby
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Posted: 1st Dec 2005 22:22 Edited at: 1st Dec 2005 22:50
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Quote: "now where do you see ENGLISH... or COMPLICATED in the bottom statement... i see LOGICAL and INTUITIVE...
"

One could infer that you were meaning DB's syntax is more complicated.

Did you noticed my name is not bushy?
And don't imply I know only DB. I know VB, I played around in BB and I'm learning C++ also. Maybe I did reply in a dumb way, but after reading past posts by you focusing around DB and BB, I had enough, and that little statement set me off.

Quote: "Quote: "Red Ocktober: Chill pill, man. Try not to insult everyone"
ya know... i'm really gettin a lil tired of you and your childish foolishness... how can anything i said above be construed as an insult to anyone... by anyone with half an ounce of intellect...

everything that doesn't fit into your fragile lil perception of the world is seen as an insult to you... a sign of serious issues, needing serious treatment..."


Funny, you just insulted him a few times there.
And stop acting like you know so much about psychology!




Bush babies are funny little hermits disquised as rats.
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ReneGade RG
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Posted: 1st Dec 2005 22:34
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The thing I hate about DB is the fact that there is too much English. There is no advanced logic or pattern, commands in other languages are written usually as functions, in DB, they consist of 3 words and spaced out intergers...it matters what you prefer! If you like an orderly and cintrollable system, then Blitz3d is best. If English is your first language and you can't be bothered to learn what a function is, then DB would be on your list!

It's amazing you're reading this, surprise... you still are.
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Bush Baby
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Posted: 1st Dec 2005 22:39
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Hm. English is my first language, and I bothered to learn what a function is, and DB is still on the top of my list.


Bush babies are funny little hermits disquised as rats.
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SimSmall
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Posted: 1st Dec 2005 22:42 Edited at: 1st Dec 2005 22:46
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Quote: "the usual db approach of "heres the commands go figure it out""


The commands and how to use them are all there, If you can't figure out, read it again, I only find a few of the commands confusing, and even then I'll have some idea on what it does... If you still can't understand it, that's what the forum is for...

I wouldn't expect anyone to say things like 'Command A should always be followed by Command B' not only is figuring it out yourself is part of programming, but this sort of statement can never be 100% true. Copying out of text books is just boring, and you're less likely to learn from it...

As far as I know, Sven B got most of his knowledge from just reading the help system and exprimenting...

Edit:
Quote: "Hm. English is my first language, and I bothered to learn what a function is, and DB is still on the top of my list."
Top of mine too. Problem is DB doesn't treat functions like other languages, It treats them as subs that can accept parameters (hence the reason it can never encounter a function, it won't have the necessary parameters it needs)

...maybe one day I'll finish a project
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Bush Baby
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Posted: 1st Dec 2005 22:49
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Yea, that was my problem when I ported over from the Clickteam's Jamagic. Man how I hate Jamagic, DB is so much easier
The hard truth is, HTML and Javascript just isn't ment to be merged into Jamagic. Lol.


Bush babies are funny little hermits disquised as rats.
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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 1st Dec 2005 22:49 Edited at: 1st Dec 2005 23:01
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@ Renegade...
good call... it's pretty much a matter of personal preference... my overall need is easy dx9 shader access, so i use DBPro for the current project... and so far, i've had no problem getting accustomed to the DB syntax and way of doing things... but it goes opposite of every other programming language i've used...

@ bushy...
Quote: "One could infer that you were meaning DB's syntax is more complicated "
then one should say that, shouldn't one...

Quote: "Did you noticed my name is not bushy?"
just like you noticed that i didn't say COMPLICATED or ENGLISH...

Quote: "Funny, you just insulted him a few times there."
no... there was no insult, just a logical deduction... if anyone insulted anyone, it was he insulting himself by his insistance on trying to bring this forum down to his level...

and speaking of bringing the level down, i'm gonna have to sign off on the direction you are trying to send this post... it has nothing to do with the thread topic, and if you continue baiting me, i'll simply report it to the moderators... i don't have the time or desire to exchange tit for tats with some obviously hostile young kid who just wants attention...

if you want to discuss the topic at hand, then good, if not... well, you're gonna have to talk to the air, cause i aint gonna respond...
and i hope noone else joins in this... we don't need another flame fest going...

--Mike
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ReneGade RG
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Posted: 1st Dec 2005 22:50
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to Bush Baby:

Still, the function system almost adds a sense of control and order and pattern to a language. It makes a function feel less like a simple subroutine but a reall power-house, that big commands can be represented as powerful hard-coded functions. I appreciate this system, and it gives a more layed-back feel to coding/scripting. Plus, the entity-system in Blitz3d is great. In DB, I found a 'Move Object x,y' but not a 'move matrix x,y', they're all 3d entities, they should all be able to move! Blitz3d solves the problem by making all objects be classified as "entities", and not "spheres" and "matrices". DarkBasic looks like a language being made up on the way, without a plan, with an eye-socket being pulled out when needed. Blitz3d always had a plan, and I like that! And DarkBasic will never be able to win that back until we hopefully see a DBpro-mega with DirectX10 and totally modified syntax...but those days are still to come!

It's amazing you're reading this, surprise... you still are.
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SimSmall
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Posted: 1st Dec 2005 22:55
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Renegade:
You can position matrix - a little 3D maths should give you your new position quite quickly, even if slightly more long-winded than blitz

...maybe one day I'll finish a project
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Bush Baby
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Posted: 1st Dec 2005 22:58 Edited at: 2nd Dec 2005 01:06
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Mr. Logical Deduction wins.

I'll just sit here and be the hostile kid I am.

Edit: Although I do not wish to.



Bush babies are funny little hermits disquised as rats.
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AlbertoT
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2005 00:50
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the entity-system in Blitz3d is great....

I defintly agree
Blitz3d has a more logical and intuitive syntax but DarkBasic Pro + packs , is more powerful ( a part from the bugs )
Thus, I was expecting that DarkGame SDK were a tremendous hit.
The logical C++ syntax + DarkBasicPro features
It seems I was wrong, it is a pity.

Alberto
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re faze
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Posted: 7th Dec 2005 22:04
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i dunno, dbc has excellen help, but b3d seems to output more streamlined true exe's as opposed to dbc. but that does allow you to do scripting in dbc using dbc native code. However though dbp is more powerful the exe's are overly sized and the loading process looks very unprofessional (unpacking dll's, the actual game being a seperate thread fom the actual games)

hey, even I need someone to talk to about my troubles...
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