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Geek Culture / Whos afraid of the big bad....Penguin?

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Me!
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 15:13
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http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/linuxunix/0,39020390,39238443,00.htm

I hope Bill has a Rotten Christmas



Do parachute manufacturers have a refunds policy?
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Hawkeye
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 15:39
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Bill seems to have ants up his pants


I am but mad north north-west; when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw - Hamlet, Hamlet
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Jimmy
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 18:40
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I'm going to have to take Microsoft's side on this one.


Bloggy
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David T
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 18:44
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I have to agree too with MS. It never occured to me, but open source is really really anti commercial - especially when OS software is designed specifically to take down commerical software.

"A book. If u know something why cant u make a kool game or prog.
come on now. A book. I hate books. book is stupid. I know that I need codes but I dont know the codes"
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Me!
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 19:11
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and? , I take it you two must be incredibly rich and like paying , whats wrong with anti-commercial?, do you enjoy paying for basic essentials like the OS or something?, whats wrong with open source?, give me one good reason why open source is a bad thing for the consumer, before the PC boom there was no MS, the economy went on just fine without em, just because you can do something one way doesn`t mean you have to.



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Jeku
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 19:19
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Quote: "basic essentials like the OS "


The OS is most likely the most advanced piece of software on your computer :-P

Quote: "before the PC boom there was no MS, the economy went on just fine without em"


Commercial software has been around LONG before MS. Before MS-DOS there was DR-DOS --- COMMERCIAL. How about OS/2? COMMERCIAL. Unix?? COMMERCIAL.

I'm not arguing for either way, but your argument is paper thin.

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Me!
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 20:22
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don`t care, ok so...before computers the economy went on just fine

and

"basic" is DOS on 160k floppy disk, you don`t actualy need winderz, it`s nicer, but you don`t need it, same for Linux just the core is enough, you dont actualy NEED KDE, Gnome etc, likewise, just because MS made it the most advanced bit of code on the machine (arguable) doesn`t stop it being a basic essential, no OS, no computer users (unless we all code our own).

not that I am that bothered either way, but MS have too much of their own way already, it doesn`t hurt to clip em round the ear when they step out of line.



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Killswitch
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 20:26
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An open source OS is NOT practical! How many differnt linux distros can you name? And how many different quirks and individual features can you name that are different between the lot? Linux is too fractured to ever become usuable on a worldwide scale.

Also just look at Windows. Microsoft has a big enough problem dealing with hackers/viri/spyware etc and it has a closed source model. Can you imagine the problems with an open source OS which was as idely used as Windows?

Money gives Microsoft a reason to create new (and, ok, not always 'better') software but at least they have a reason for innovation (or at least upgrading their old gear with newer features). What if one day people just stop bothering with Linux? There's no real motive for people to keep developing Linux other than love for the project.

Thats three reasons for you.

~It's a common mistake to make, the rules of the English langauge do not apply to insanity~
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gamesmad
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 20:44 Edited at: 29th Nov 2005 20:46
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Youve never used Linux have you you retard. People develop Linux distros because they intensely hate fueling someone who is already a billionaire with more and more money.

What you say about Linux being unsafe is simply not true, due to the way it works. Put VERY simply, Linux has a list of software that the user installed, and when it boots up it takes those files plus the essential OS files, and deletes the rest, meaning you have no viral infections apart from ones bundled with other programs. And why would a hacker bother with that if they can just write a simple program for Windows that will track all your browser activity.

Almost all the software for Windows can be emulated under Linux, and theres probably an open source version of it that is similar or better.

Also the fact that a free OS combats MS so much they fell they may loose sales is surely proof that it is a valid worldwide solution.

LINUX ROCKS ALL THE WAY!

Will

Team leader of Games Mad! and 3D designer, modeller and animator for Cyrain Studios.
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Hawkeye
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 20:51
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Microsoft is right, Linux is destroying commericalism.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to the nearest p2p network.


I am but mad north north-west; when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw - Hamlet, Hamlet
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Jeku
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 21:03
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Haha @ Hawkeye :-P

I find that most people who use Linux are dual-booting with XP anyways, so you're still supporting MS. But really, who cares?

@Killswitch - Your logic, although seemingly correct, just isn't. By that same account, Linux and other open source applications are more secure because the same kinds of hackers who write virus' are also finding and fixing security flaws inside the OS. Plus, history shows that MS' reaction time is often months longer than the Linux community's with regards to holes.

That being said, most of us who use Linux (myself included) just install the most common setup, which means it ISN'T secure. We haven't closed the appropriate ports, etc., to make Linux as bulletproof as we need. Just using Linux by itself doesn't mean you're safe from harm.

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David R
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 21:13
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It is anti-commercial. Good I say. That means comapnies should have the sense to lower their prices (with M$ charging £90-120 for WinXP, what can they expect? )

This is just M$ being anti-competition


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Antidote
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 21:21
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What is so ironic about this is that today in my computer science class we had a seminar on open source coding. Bazaar vs. Cathedral coding models blah blah. We also talked about open source as a threat to bigger companies. We came to the conclusion that in deffinetly could be a threat since most people who would help in an open source project generally see bigger companies make programs with good functionality and decide to make their own. Though it is a threat that is not a good enough reason to try and strike them down. In the US it could almost be considered illegal for Microsoft to do this since we have anti-trust laws that make it so companies cannot become huge monopolies. Monopolies are not good for the economy.



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TKF15H
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 21:56
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Quote: "Money gives Microsoft a reason to create new (and, ok, not always 'better') software but at least they have a reason for innovation (or at least upgrading their old gear with newer features). What if one day people just stop bothering with Linux? There's no real motive for people to keep developing Linux other than love for the project."

Money (well, lack thereof) gives Annonimous Programmers a reason to create new software. What if Bill decides he's got enough money in his wallet ()? There's no real motive for people to keep developing for MS other than the love of money. ^_^

Linux has been around for 10+ years, I don't think people will "just lose interest" in the project.

Also, you can't say Linux or open source software are "anti-commercial": Look at the size of the Red Hat company. You think IBM is fueling Linux projects for the fun of it? IMO, Microsoft's request to remove mentions of opensource software is anti-competitive and monopolitic. Typical MS greed.

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DC emulator code size: 14.3MB, 553,214 lines
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Killswitch
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 23:06
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@gamesmad

For your information I have used a varity of Linux distros, including: Debian, Knoppix, Slaxs, Ubuntu (sp?), Goblinux (sp?) and a few more that are a bit more obsecure. I have also used Open Solaris and I hate all of them. Windows is far more user friendly. Out of the lot I found Debian to be my favourite, but I still wouldn't ditch XP for it.

@Jeku

You're absolutly right that open source software is more secure at the moment. Thats because open source software is very much in the minority at the moment. However, as in my hypothetical situation, if Linux - or any open source OS - was the most widely used in the world, do you really think that people who are out to make money through malicious means WILL NOT take advantage of that situation? Open source is only secure while it isn't mainstream, just as OS X is more secure than Windows as no one bothers to attack it. You must admit its far easier to find and exploit security holes with an open source OS than a closed source one (and Windows proves just how easy it can be to do the latter anyway).

~It's a common mistake to make, the rules of the English langauge do not apply to insanity~
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the_winch
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 23:53
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Quote: "I have to agree too with MS. It never occured to me, but open source is really really anti commercial - especially when OS software is designed specifically to take down commerical software."


Only if you look from the point of view of people selling software. From the point of view of people buying software (most people) open source could be seen as pro commercial.

Which country is going to be better off? The one where all busineses use commercial software or one where all businesses use open source software?

--
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Sephnroth
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Posted: 30th Nov 2005 00:15
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I'm hearing some weird things here from.. software developers? Okay, hobbiests, but its what most of us like to dream of. As a consumer its easy for us all to stand up and say YEAH OPEN SOURCE GIVE ME EVERYTHING FREE but when it comes to releasing our software, plugins, whatever dont we all hope to make something from it? and if i slave away on a 3 year project I hope its going to earn me more than peanuts but with open source products begining to fill all the niches and common tasks its getting harder and harder to actually sell software.

See the thing is, wether you liek it or not, Mr Gates is a good buisness man and has become rich because of it. If he wasnt so damn good at it and microsoft was another middle market software company struggling to push their ideas and software no one would have a problem with it, but microsoft is a success story of a dude making software which went big (if you do your reading you will find he was coding his little programs himself at the begining). Now for me thats a bit of.. hope or something. A success story, could happen to me. Could happen to any of us. Would we complain? I doubt it. But it hasnt so we're hating instead. Really our industry is a very fickle and hypocritical thing indeed, in many many areas.

I dont like it when MS start trying to monopolise everything for sure, but even that makes sense froma buisness stand point and im not sure i can honestly say what I would really do in the same position.

Im all for open source btw, I use open office etc and am thankful for it. But i think you can take a good thing too far.


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Antidote
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Posted: 30th Nov 2005 00:28
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Read this. It has a lot of stuff on open source coding and stuff

http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/cathedral-bazaar/



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gamesmad
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Posted: 30th Nov 2005 14:54
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Quote: "For your information I have used a varity of Linux distros, including: Debian, Knoppix, Slaxs, Ubuntu (sp?), Goblinux (sp?) and a few more that are a bit more obsecure. I have also used Open Solaris and I hate all of them. Windows is far more user friendly. Out of the lot I found Debian to be my favourite, but I still wouldn't ditch XP for it."


So your not into quick reliable PC use then, and cant handle a slight variation in how you start your programs... Right...

Will

Team leader of Games Mad! and 3D designer, modeller and animator for Cyrain Studios.
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Killswitch
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Posted: 30th Nov 2005 18:48
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@gamesmad

You're making this far too personal, I don't like Linux and that's that. If you would like me to write an essay on it then I shall but stop insinuating that I'm a retard who "can't handle" an OS other than Windows.

~It's a common mistake to make, the rules of the English langauge do not apply to insanity~
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Zotoaster
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Posted: 30th Nov 2005 19:55
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Quote: "Whos afraid of the big bad....Penguin? Me! "


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Peter H
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Posted: 30th Nov 2005 20:14
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Hehe, i wanted to say that but was too lazy

"We make the worst games in the universe..."
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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 30th Nov 2005 23:32
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Hey, I like Penguins!!!

Other than that, this isn't worth arguing over... no matter what is said, people won't have their opinions of Microsoft shifted by this.

But for what it's worth, I agree with big Bill... as much as I love open source, I'd like to sell the stuff I work hardest on.


Check the WIP board for updates on Block Verse
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Hawkeye
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Posted: 1st Dec 2005 02:51
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If you truely hate pinguins...

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/pingu2.php


I am but mad north north-west; when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw - Hamlet, Hamlet
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ionstream
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Posted: 1st Dec 2005 04:31
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Well, I'm not anti-commercial, but I dont think that a company should charge a whole lot to use your computer. Without an OS, a computer is not useable. Microsoft (not Micro$oft) knows this so they increase the price by a bucketfull.

However, I thinkn that games should be commercial and not free, because they provide entertainment, like a movie. Just my view.

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JoelJ
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Posted: 1st Dec 2005 04:44
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I think that Linux has a LONG way to go before they get much more support, yes, I love linux, very nice, but want to be able to INSTALL something without figuring out all that junk, choosing which kinda installer I want, etc...

I think that MS OVER CHARGES for their software, I'm not to worried about securty or stability (because XP doesn't usually crash on me unless I do something wrong )

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Jeku
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Posted: 1st Dec 2005 08:31
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Quote: "but want to be able to INSTALL something without figuring out all that junk, choosing which kinda installer I want, etc..."


Then you're using the wrong distro. Ubuntu installs and uninstalls easier than XP :-P


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Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 1st Dec 2005 18:41
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Its wrong of Micorsoft to be trying to stop people hearing about free alternatives to their products. If someone has spent their own time and expertise making something then it belongs to them and is entirely their own choice as to whether or not they sell it or give it away.

And heck yeah MS products are overpriced, unfortunately I've paid for full legal copies of all their operating systems and shells since ms-dos 6.22 & window 3.11 for workgroups. I think once you've bought a windows operating system, any updates or upgrades to it should be free, maybe 10 pounds for an upgrade disk including postage. Its not as if new pcs aren't being bought every single day by people who don't own them.

I seem to remember Microsoft refusing to give free copys of windows to develoing nations trying to modernise. Scummy tactics if you ask me


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The Real 87
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Posted: 1st Dec 2005 20:18
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To give you a picture of the sheer power and might that is microsoft.

Your signature has been erased by a mod because the combined height of your 2 banners is way larger than 120..... remember, 600x120 is the limit.....

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Me!
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Posted: 1st Dec 2005 21:02
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yeah! theres a lot of those "facts about Linux" reports/adverts (all sponsored by MS) going around the net at the moment, all saying how expensive and unreliable Linux is, the Linux community have responded with ads that look like exactly the same thing but take you to sites that give the opposite conclusion (surprise surprise), I don`t think MS thought of that when they started this current round of slagging off, they could stop Netscape making a profit by bundling Explorer with Windoze, but that tatic does not work when it`s the actual OS they are trying to compete with



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Tachyon
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2005 11:31
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I think that information should be free in some cases. Like existance of aliens should be revealded to people if goverment knows (Okay, not x-files for me anymore). Same thing is whit the existance of free alternatives. Or the scientic results, like what is gravity, etc should be "anti-comerial".
Other types of information like computer games, i mean the exe, not game programming science results, can be commerial, if it is makers will.
Still, everyone should be able to license their information how they want. Thats why GPL is for, right? Linux is not anti commerial. It is just better way to develop OS. BTW I am in working pratice right now. They use linux here, this company is realy comerial (making some robot thing, which i want to try program ). They say it is better, they use redhat, becouse of support. That is commerial . Okay, windows is at Desktops, but in "no microsoft zone", i mean server room, it runs on linux.
Penguins rock
Sorry for my not too good english, from finland.

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Tachyon
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2005 11:33
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Sorry to post again, but this make me angry:
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/windows/0,39020396,39231004,00.htm
Microsoft is cheating (read comments from africans at end of page) and thats why these peoples life may not be so good in the future, becouse of microsof's money!

(2b)||!(2b) (It's C++) 1. TO B OR NOT 2B (It's DarkBasic!)
But, that's the question!
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