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3 Dimensional Chat / What is the best way to animate a model

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Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 4th Oct 2002 16:49
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I use Max 5. I want it to be used in BDV1 and DBPro (not all the people in my team have DBPro).

Also how to make it animate?

i.e. Do i make it move when i load the animation file or when i make the file in max?

Thank You,
Martyn Pittuck
The Outside is a evil place to be, too much light, too much noise and too many distractions....
I went outside once and my FPS rate dropped to 5.
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deadlyduck
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Posted: 4th Oct 2002 22:27
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There are 2 ways to do the animation, 1 will work only in DBP the other in both

1. Hieracy animation, works in both, but only animates solid objects, pivoting them etc. also you can animate the hiracy inside DBv1 or Pro, bu rotating the Limb's

2. 'Skin'd or Physique modified' boned meshes, only works in DBPro, works by taking an existing animated mesh (Skin modifier in Max exports easier as I have yet to find a working exporter for Physique even though DirectX SDK says Its exporter works... It dosn't)

they both have there strong and weak points, Hirachy being that it dosn't create verry realistic animation

Skin'd can't be animated on the fly by DBPro yet.

to see Hirachy load the DBPro room demo the man walking around uses that type of animation

to see Skin'd load up my screen saver and look at the dolphins, they use pre animated skin'd meshes
http://www.darkbasicpro.com/apollo/view.php?t=633&b=5

Some games use a mix of both, Neverwinter Nights is one

on the whole Hirachy is the easiest to understand, export and use but skin'd boned meshes look better
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 5th Oct 2002 07:16
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I would sit down and go through the tutorials within Max 5's help first ... get a good understanding of all three main types of animation - then you can decide for the given situation.

It is possible to use, Heirachy - Skeletal - and Mesh Deformation within both DB and DBpro, just easier within DBpro as it has direct format support.
I wouldn't constrict yourself to thinking of a single format - should rather think of how you'll require the model to be animated and go from there ... Vehicle wheels and mechnical components look stupid mesh deformed - however if you use MD3 format a mesh deforming format within DB ... whatever you animated will be as it doesn't support heirachy.

Using a combination of Skeletal and Heirachy models is probably the most versitile setup - however I'd also look into tag animations.
Alot to be thinkin about here and learning about, I really wouldn't constrict yourself to the methods most people use here ... if your team has enough skill to be developing a game, then they'll have the skill to be using memblocks for your models needs.

Memblocks are the most versitile tool within the 3D toolbox of DB/DBpro and they work identically - so it is best to really get to grips with them.

[b] New interactive driving system... i like my new blue and black steering wheel [b]
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Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 5th Oct 2002 13:18
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I ehem do not have the help files....

The Outside is a evil place to be, too much light, too much noise and too many distractions....
I went outside once and my FPS rate dropped to 5.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 5th Oct 2002 13:28
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But the help files are on the CD ...

[b] New interactive driving system... i like my new blue and black steering wheel [b]
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Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 5th Oct 2002 15:09
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i know,

The Outside is a evil place to be, too much light, too much noise and too many distractions....
I went outside once and my FPS rate dropped to 5.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 5th Oct 2002 17:42
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if you are implying that it isn't an "official" copy of Max, then i'm sorry but i can't help any more
Nothing against you ... just kinda dislike that sort of thing.

[b] New interactive driving system... i like my new blue and black steering wheel [b]
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Tapewormz
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Posted: 5th Oct 2002 22:40
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If you can't afford to buy 3D Studio Max, then try MilkShape3D. It's very affordable at 20$. www.swissquake.ch/chumbalum-soft/

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Tapewormz
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Posted: 5th Oct 2002 22:48
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PS. I have a full version of 3D studio max given to me by mu uncle who bought it for his company. He no longer uses 3D studio max. He uses SolidWorks. I got lucky, but I'd never be able to afford to buy 3D studio max. I purchased MilkShape3D and frankly, I'm much happier using it over 3D studio max.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 6th Oct 2002 00:47
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Well gmax is a free copy of Max4
and you can purchase Max4 on Student discount for $500, which may seem alot but a few weeks in most mininal wage jobs and you can afford it!

you can also purchase (however i'm not sure to the legalities) Max within second hand software shops...

Not to sound like a moany old git, but I'm no longer a student and have had to pay full price ($2,300 which includes several addon pack) ... and i've seen over the years when products are pirated - people like myself who are bothered about owning legal copies, end up footing the bill for it. Not to mention the smaller development houses, suchas Oh i dunno - DarkBASIC Software Ltd. perhaps!
For every pirate out there who doesn't purchase the software that throws our premiums up!

Discreet are a money hungry company as it is, without such acts - ESPECIALLY on thier brand new products!!

And Tape... please don't take this the wrong way - but it is a little tiring constantly hearing praise about Milkshape! If you can't afford full products there are now things called Gmax, Maya PLE or Lightwave Lite - they don't take anything away from actual modelling, they have full help, they have full support, oh yeah and what was it, THEY ARE FREE!

It isn't big nor is it clever to steal software, if someone takes the time to create a product that is worth using then you owe them money! People don't work for nothing!!

i've even seen people ripp off darkbasic games, you see how sick this world of theft is comming to when people ripp off kids!!

If you can't afford something get a job!

[b] New interactive driving system... i like my new blue and black steering wheel [b]
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Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 6th Oct 2002 22:18
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I know i should not use illegal copies of max but i cannot buy the full version.

I am hoping to get a student discount, but at the moment i have no money at all. 3DS MAX is 2nd on m list to buy, after a laptop. I am only 15

The Outside is a evil place to be, too much light, too much noise and too many distractions....
I went outside once and my FPS rate dropped to 5.
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Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 6th Oct 2002 22:21
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Gmax - HATE
Maya PLE - on a 56k?
Lightwave Lite - see above.

Max was 50MB that was OK. But i cannot afford broadband until i get a job (as my dad's job is not looking too secure).

The Outside is a evil place to be, too much light, too much noise and too many distractions....
I went outside once and my FPS rate dropped to 5.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 7th Oct 2002 01:30
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At 15 you can get an evening paperround, stockboy in a corner shop - all sorts of simple odds and ends jobs.
You don't need Max to model, as Gmax is identicle - if you hate Gmax then really you shouldn't be using Max.
I am not on broadband either... mainly because the ADSL, T1 and LAN at home don't see eye to eye. And AOL are no freakin' help at all - been out about 11times so far to look at it, say they're not sure and charge me for it! (bloody cheek!!)
Maya PLE is 130Mb which yes may seem alot on a 56k but like with stuff like CounterStrike and such you download using a program like Go!Zilla where you can download in sections.
Failing all of that you can order these free products on CD for delivery charge, which as you're in the UK will probably be £5 if that!
And alot of the time they are packaged on magazines like computer shopper just to fill space
You'll find alot of free 3D software is, where i got trueSpace2 Pro from - still pretty unbeatable as software goes in my opinion. Though I do have 6.2 now

There is no excuse for breaking the law! Plus you know that every 9/10 copies of software you download have been edited in some way to make them work, oftenly they contain a virus, trojan, worm or something even nastier!

Holy jumping mother of god NOOOO!!!...
Ahem I mean, I'll think about it
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Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 7th Oct 2002 11:14
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Yeah i know, the reason i hate GMAX is the lack of 'advanced' options.

I would use a d/l manager but it would take approximatly 7 hours to get it. I do not download games.

I get all the PC mags etc. with 3D progs on, but none compare to MAX 5.

A Job....

HA, i have one, PHP programmer. But i am waiting for a contract to come through (this week i hope). Then there is a couple of thousand £'s in my bank.

But it all has to go towards a uni course or 2.

Lastly, unless you make money using a illegal product it is not breaking the law. The security holes that allowed me to crack the version were supplied with the software.
If you buy a cracked copy then it is illegal becasue the vendor made money. All my crack does is extend the full application 30 day trial to a 300 day one. (I also paid for the phone call to france to get the CD!)

The Outside is a evil place to be, too much light, too much noise and too many distractions....
I went outside once and my FPS rate dropped to 5.
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Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 7th Oct 2002 11:16
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Oh i must explain.

I got downloaded a crack version on max first. It stopped after a while and then i got the CD version.

I promise that i will buy it when i am sure that my next 7 years od schooling is financially secure.

The Outside is a evil place to be, too much light, too much noise and too many distractions....
I went outside once and my FPS rate dropped to 5.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 7th Oct 2002 14:07
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Purchasing the software from anywhere other than a Discreet Licenced Retailer (suchas Amazon.co.uk) is illegal... even editing for longer trial time is illegal.

If you alter, edit or in anyway compromise a product without the Developers permission - oftenly this is illegal, which as Max 5 is protected under the same agreement as all other Discreet products ... then it is safe to say it is completely illegal. Barring all of that, it is also very immoral to do such - if you can't afford something then you don't have it!
Atlest with other piracy industries, like Movie Tapes/DvDs - Clothes - Hardware, you know that if you get it then you will be getting an inferior product!
Whereas software wise, you just get a crack for a copy of the full product - bing bang whallop you have it!

Saying that when you can afford it really isn't an excuse, and perhaps you should know that the current fine for illegal possesion of software within the UK is £3,000 (which is double what it bloody costs!) ... plus you'll get 3months in Juvy!

Contract work isn't really a job unless your in an agency or are good enough to have a reputation - even then personally think anything you don't get payed for weekly isn't really a job more of a hobby.
Reason for saying its a hobby is that the work and pay is uncertain.

If you wish to be a 3D artist then use Gmax and wait until you goto Uni to get onto Computer Art or such and you will be using the latest version of Max there (always freakin' max )

From what I've actually seen Gmax takes NOTHING away from actual modeling side of things, and only the animation is cutdown - but still 10x better than Milkshape as you can Weight, IK and and Fin!
If you want to start CGI stuff then use a different product, that allows it on your budget - and yes Maya will take about 7-8 hours, but it isn't all in one go!
That was the point in recommending Go!Zilla, as you can just pause the download and continue later... 2 hours a day and in a few days its yours.

Holy jumping mother of god NOOOO!!!...
Ahem I mean, I'll think about it
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 7th Oct 2002 14:26
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Kinda ironic to be a programmer and steal software isn't it ?

Pneumatic of Xev@EQ

Life outside of MMORG's costs more, rewards less and features no end game content.
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Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 7th Oct 2002 16:38
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Not really, i give my programs away as long as they are not making money on it.

Even then i do not charge that much, $150 for 6 hours work is really good for a internet programmer.

Oh and the we are currently in take with a US insurance comapany for a large sum of money ($10 000). It may not seem to large to you, but i only get £15 a month
The company have been quoted $50000 buy another firm so they look likely to accept.

I tried Go!Zilla but did not work .

Lastly i am not an Admin on my network, installing MAYA is a no-no. I found a copy of it round a friends house, it will not install.

Anyway this topic has gone too far, it costs too much for me to buy and i cannot use the other software. I cannot change that for at least another year. AS soon as i can i will.

The Outside is a evil place to be, too much light, too much noise and too many distractions....
I went outside once and my FPS rate dropped to 5.
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