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Geek Culture / A question how you think: an engine in dbpro is standardalone or not?

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##GERI##
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Posted: 12th Dec 2005 01:48
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We talked about fps creator, and it was a bit interested thing.

I think a engine in dbp is not a independent engine.
If you write a engine in dbpro, you not use the API, you cant use API calls like glClear (GL_COLOR_BUFFER_BIT|GL_DEPTH_BUFFER_BIT), you mus use the predefinied sync command, so you cant modify the rendering procedure, or any other thing.

So i say, DBPro is a engine+a programming language.
A engine writed in the dbpro is not a 100% independent engine.
I think this, but much pepole thinking this is not true.

What you say?

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Neofish
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Posted: 12th Dec 2005 01:49 Edited at: 12th Dec 2005 01:54
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NOOOOOOOO Why didn't what I said on IRC sink in?!?


DBP is a language, so it can make an engine. See thats good logic and it works...

Also you say you can't control the API, but you can, through the language (eg you can change the vertex data as of recently) AND you can through a DLL that allows direct access to directX (I'm not sure of the details so ask someone in DLL Talk)...

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 12th Dec 2005 01:59
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##GERI##, I see what you're saying, but I think you're off a bit. DBP is more like a programming language with a lot of encapsulated graphics routines. So..

Quote: "you mus use the predefinied sync command, so you cant modify the rendering procedure, or any other thing."


That's true, but it's just an function that does a couple of things I don't care about. That's how most of the commands work - they do a lot of the automatic stuff for you. But, if I really wanted to, I could make the DLL calls myself. But then, I'd lose the ease of DBP.

An engine is usually geared toward a specific type of output. DBP can make whatever you want.


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Neofish
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Posted: 12th Dec 2005 02:02
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Exactly. I would have said more but I explained myself far more in detail on IRC so I couldn't be bothered to retype it. I do not see why you would use DB if you're going to go to the level of changing DX output, its stupidly futile. Especially when DBP lets you do that with slightly less control!

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##GERI##
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Posted: 12th Dec 2005 02:13
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no, i dont thinking about the direct using of the d3d api under dbpro.

So lets see.
DBP is a engine. Why? You dont need to write the rendering procedure.

So Your code -> DBPRO -> API -> driver -> gpu
but if you use fps creator, yeah, i know the dbp writes machine language code, but if you use fps creator, then the code

is using the dbpro rendering procedure right?

so Your code -> FPSCreator -> dbpro's procedure that are may slow in some times to the selected goal -> API -> driver ->

gpu

so its two engine, the fps creators engine and the dbpro-s engine.
The fps creators engine are transalated down to the dbpro architecture. So this why i think fpscreator is not a

independent engine.
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##GERI##
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Posted: 12th Dec 2005 02:14
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so the dbp cant be ignored from the system with using fps creator, so it cant be a independent engine.
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Neofish
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Posted: 12th Dec 2005 02:22
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you dont need dbp to use fpscreator do you? then your last statement is wrong

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##GERI##
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Posted: 12th Dec 2005 02:24
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no, but the architecture is coded to the fpscreator's exe and cant ignored.
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 12th Dec 2005 04:05 Edited at: 12th Dec 2005 04:05
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Quote: "no, but the architecture is coded to the fpscreator's exe and cant ignored. "


Actually, you can totally ignore it. You'd never have to know it was made in DBP to use it. All it's doing is accessing some DLL calls that are included with DBP. I don't think that qualifies as an engine.

DBP is a collection of graphics libraries with a compiler. Look at the Dark SDK - that's more directly an example with exactly the same effects. You call the commands from the DLLs in C++. Hardly an engine.

If you consider that an engine, then Java would be an engine, because it has included libraries that keep you from having to re-invent the wheel. Math functions, String classes - you don't have to do all of the work to enjoy the functionality. Same exact thing.


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Neofish
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Posted: 12th Dec 2005 04:29
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Erm I said DBP was a language and can make engines...which fits with what you just said..

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blanky
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Posted: 12th Dec 2005 08:42
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I think we ought to repeat ourselves for the next week.

[edit] I think we ought to repeat ourselves for the next week.[/edit]
[edit2] I think we ought to repeat ourselves for the next week.[/edit2]
[edit3] I thi...

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Darkbasic MADPSP
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Posted: 13th Dec 2005 09:11
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Blanky you didn't edit that

Quote: "blanky
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
User


Joined: Tue Aug 3rd 2004
Location: UK Posted: 12th Dec 2005 02:42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think we ought to repeat ourselves for the next week.

[edit] I think we ought to repeat ourselves for the next week.[/edit]
[edit2] I think we ought to repeat ourselves for the next week.[/edit2]
[edit3] I thi...


16-colour PNGs pwn.
"

Last line being your sig or maybe i just didn't get the joke

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Benjamin
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Posted: 13th Dec 2005 17:36
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Darkbasic MAD, no one cares. Why did you even bother posting that?

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blanky
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Posted: 13th Dec 2005 17:37 Edited at: 13th Dec 2005 17:37
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Y'know, when I was posting I thought to myself, "I ought to press the Edit button to add more realism.".

Then I thought how mature all you people are, and that if you didn't get the joke already, then you would at least get a hint because of that.

Now come and have a big bag of STFU and go and get genital herpes or something.

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JoelJ
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Posted: 13th Dec 2005 21:31
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I would so press that abuse button if I were DBMad.

you guys need to cut him a break, it's not like he's TRYING to be annoying.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 14th Dec 2005 15:08
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Sorry Mr. forum mod.

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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 14th Dec 2005 19:18
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Quote: "it's not like he's TRYING to be annoying"


Nooo... Its all perfectly natural!!

As for this topic - @GERI, I dont think you entirely understand what DBP, FPS and languages actually are. You said in your first post that you dont actually make API calls, you just use wrappers. What exactly do you think that command does? Do you think C++ turns around to the graphics card and says that to it?

DBP just makes coding easier by combining C++ commands into functions. FPS makes it even easier by combining DBP commands into other function. I suppose you could say C++ makes life easier because it combined low level commands into functions.

At what point can you say that something stops being A and becomes B?


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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 18th Dec 2005 17:54
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It looks to me like ##GERI## just doesn't speak english very well and is having a hard time explaining and understanding it all.

And Blanky, there was no need in posting such as that. You have no right to say anything about anyone elses maturity.

Stuff like that is exactly why these forums are going downhill. We should all be tring to help each other instead of pick on each other.

@##GERI## What they are trying to tell you is that DBP is not an engine but can be used to make one. The FPSC engine was made in DBP. They are not both running at the same time. They have become one engine when you run your game made with FPSC. Now when you use FPSC editor and compile the test level, you have 2 engines running though. You have the engine inside the editor and the engine that is running your level. But in your final game exe there is only 1 engine made with DBP but is not DBP.

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