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Newcomers DBPro Corner / beginning my dream...

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Corrupted Studios
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Joined: 12th Dec 2005
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Posted: 13th Dec 2005 03:22
hello everyone! im very new to all of this stuff so take it easy.

first of all, i am a graphics designer, and i have an awesome idea for a video game.
here is a weapon i recently made for the game...


its not completely finished yet, but i think it should turn out fine.

anyways, it has been my dream to one day design my own games and work with a team to create one. well, i have a small team, we call ourselves Corrupted Studios. we have alot of experience in modding for games such as quake 2, quake 3, RTCW, and a little bit of doom 3, but my computer doesnt want to run such a game! lol

i was wondering if anyone could point me in a direction to go. i have no idea how to start my game, i have had no experience programming before, with the exception of a few level scripts.

i saw a few programs, and one that caught my eye was the FPSCreator. it doesnt look exactly professional though, sounds more like a game than an actual tool. seems like your just modding for a game thats already made. should i get this program?

i would really appreciate any help. i dont know where to start.

Corrupted Studios -
Lead graphics design
Uber Noob
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Posted: 13th Dec 2005 06:11
Personally, I wouldn't go for FPSCreator. It looks professional to me, but if you decide one day that FPSs aren't the only games you want to make, you're not in a good position. I would go for DBPro, and try not to give up.

............................................. You were expecting something funny?
Torq
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Posted: 13th Dec 2005 08:38 Edited at: 13th Dec 2005 08:39
Start with some of the turorials around here. Get to working with basic 3d primitives learn how to manipulate them then move on to using your own models. DBP is quite easy to code in.

Nice gun BTW!

Whats the RED button for ?

http://badtempergames.tripod.com
Tinkergirl
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 13th Dec 2005 12:44
Download the DBPro trial version and try out some of the tutorials - that way you should be able to see if it's the thing for you.

If you've modded for FPS's before you should be used to making levels in 3d packages. While DBPro 'does' load in some BSPs, the support for these is dodgy at best - you're going to want to use .X models. Getting these in the program is very simple - and to be able to have a quick look around, just use...

in your loop.

You should have very little trouble getting a .X level in, moving around, moving on to mouselook/strafe/jump and attaching animated first person weapons to your view.

There are some very good tutorials for this - look for the Monster Hunt tutorial as a first off. Good luck.
Van B
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Posted: 13th Dec 2005 14:03
BSP's are indeed far from ideal, I would'nt even entertain them.

What you no doubt are hoping for is an engine that'll give normal mapping and a decent physics engine. TGC are actually planning quite a few tweaks and additions to DBPro that would make any FPS coder drool - like a commercial physics engine, the one used in Unreal2 is comming to DBPro and apparantly the results are incredible. There's also a built in lightmapper comming, and more engine optimising commands, like geometry hiding - you really won't need BSP in a couple of months, there'll be practically no benefits left for it.

I'm currently working on a FPS and I must say that it's getting easier all the time, even supporting Newton physics is quite straightforward. I think that DBPro is the sensible choice for you. Constructing levels for instance, I'd suggest making building blocks in a modeller and sticking them together in a home-grown editor - the physics plugins would look after collision for you, you could have a demo up and running really quickly.

Sweet gun BTW.


Van-B

Put away, those fiery biscuits!
Corrupted Studios
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Posted: 14th Dec 2005 02:38
thank you all so much for all the help you have provided.

i feel much more confident and ready to start!
i will soon purchase the DBPro version and try to learn using the tuts.

is using DarkBasic really as easy as everyone says it is? im afraid that i will end up spending about 100 bucks and then i wont ever learn how to use it...

also, im using a program called MilkShape3D to make my models. is this ok to use. i think that i can only save my files in .ms3d format, and you all recommend .x files.

and also, can i build a map using a 3d model program and then load it into DBPro, use it as a level? i mean, instead of using a level editor program, i have heard that you can just build the map in a 3d program. can this be done?

one last question...
does it matter how big the object is in the 3d program? i mean, in a different game i was modding for, i made a new gun for the game, and then in a text file, i specified the scale that it would appear in the game. the game would read from the txt file and resize it in the game. the texture for the gun side is about 700x288 pixels. that is the size that i created the object in MS3D.


im sorry for all the questions.
thank you so much!

Corrupted Studios -
Lead graphics design
Sho Ryu Ken
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Posted: 16th Dec 2005 03:29 Edited at: 16th Dec 2005 03:29
DB Classic has better tutorials and examples to help you learn. However, DBPro is better because it lets you use a lot more features... Including more data type control, which is somewhat crucial IMO.
Tinkergirl
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Posted: 16th Dec 2005 10:50
There are programs (free ones) you can get that will load in files of different kinds to export as .X - I'm not entirely sure what ones load in Milkshape files, there's probably a sticky in the 3D Board with the information.

As to making your levels in a modelling package - yes, that's what the default would be. If you want a level editor, you'll have to write your own or find one of the ones made seperately.
Generally, you'll do this:

where mylevel.X is the filename of the level (and would be in the same folder as your project) and the 1 is the internal number that DB uses to reference that object. After that, you can:

Which would increase the size of your level object by double (200 percent), position it just below the centre of the world (-20 in the y-axis (up and down)) and rotate it by 90 degrees in the y-axis (spinning like a spinning top).

So as you see, you can scale the objects in DB with the use of the Scale Object command. It takes percentages, and can be scaled non-uniformly - as in, you can squish and stretch them.

Probably the first thing you'll run in to trouble with, is collision. But don't worry - there are tutorials and guides on how to get collision in, as initially, you'll be able to just walk through everything.

As a last point - it might be good to create your objects to the correct scale anyway (I recommend keeping a human-sized model as reference in your 3d package scene) - that way, you don't need to bother scaling them - or if you have to do it later to all objects then the numbers will be easier. Shouldn't take more than a few seconds to scale it in Milkshape, anyway
SimSmall
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Posted: 16th Dec 2005 12:35
Lithunwrap will open ms3d files and saves as .x files.

Although lithunwrap isn't designed as a converter, and sometimes gets things wrong in places.

...maybe one day I'll finish a project
Sven B
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Posted: 16th Dec 2005 15:29
Don't be disappointed if it doesn't work from the start. To learn programming, you have to take your time and do it step by step.
Once you get the basics, it'll go quicker.

Immunity and Annihalation makes Immunihalation...
Corrupted Studios
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Posted: 17th Dec 2005 16:25
thanks alot! i think i am going to start using the FPSCreator, just so i can get a basic idea of how a FPS coding works. and then ill move on to the harder stuff. like darkbasic.

i heard that i should use C++ instead of DarkBasic. people say that i can do alot more using C++, but DarkBasic already does alot!

Corrupted Studios -
Lead graphics design
The Master
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Posted: 18th Dec 2005 00:07
not to make you mad but all you can make in the FPS Creator is shoothing games but in darkbasic you can make games that don't always involve guns and shoothing
Corrupted Studios
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Posted: 18th Dec 2005 03:40
yeah i know, but all i really want to make at the moment is a FPS.

Corrupted Studios -
Lead graphics design
SimSmall
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Posted: 18th Dec 2005 15:15
When you've done it in FPS creator, try doing it again in DB Pro, I think you'll like your second attempt a lot more...

...maybe one day I'll finish a project
devastation
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Posted: 18th Dec 2005 18:57
fps creator for a great first person shooter = powerpoint for a myst-like game

yes it works, but you will be able to do alot more in dbpro. I started programming with c++ but when 3d came around I was helpless (but i was also 13), and I gave up for a while. then I came to db and it was alot easier. if you haven't programmed from scratch before, id by far reccomend DB over any other language to start, and FPS creator is not the way to go for creating your dream. It's more of a game than it is a development tool.

when you master dbpro, which won't be too long, considering modding experience, there are alot of otehr good 3d engines out there. Torque and Torque Shader Engines are probably the best, choose according to your budget, tho 3impact and 3d game studio are nice too.

if you really want to start with c++, skip to the torque or something similar, as it has alot more than torque and they're alot faster. If you want to start in raw c++, you'll want to spend a couple hundred on books. I reccomend getting a buseness oriented c++ book, "Thinking in C++" (a phenominal book), "game programming all in one" (teaches you basic c++ programming for the first third, but after that it's got all about direct x), and finally "Programming a Multiplayer FPS in DirectX" by vaughn someone. Tho the final product will be alot less good than what you could make in a commercial game engine. If you want to use torque, "3d game programming all in one" covers it and it's a good easy read.

DevMaster.net has a database of 3d engines, including the open source rendering engines and middleware. OGRE is free and it's astonishing, tho you'll have to build mosto f the game functionality in yourself as all it does is render.

Uch. Long post.
Hope this helps!
---Jeff

verydevastating.com
go there. now.
The Master
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Posted: 18th Dec 2005 20:19
i got the 3d gamemaker okay which also does fps
in 3 months i was so bored because i couldn't make a game that i wanted to make so unless you got the money to take a chance i say stick with dbp or dbc
Corrupted Studios
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Posted: 20th Dec 2005 03:56
thanks for all the tips and info. im going to start with dbpro and work my way up.

the only problem is, i work part time- minimum wage, and affording all of these programs is going to be the hard part.

Corrupted Studios -
Lead graphics design
Sven B
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Posted: 20th Dec 2005 14:24 Edited at: 20th Dec 2005 14:24
Then I would suggest you save some money every month just for that. And when you have enough, you can buy what you want.

Don't force yourself to buy DB, there are more important things in life.
x1bwork
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Posted: 20th Dec 2005 16:30
Quote: "there are more important things in life"


There is? ..... now you tell me.
Sven B
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Posted: 20th Dec 2005 19:38
Quote: "There is? ..... now you tell me."


Like having food, medical threatment when necessary, etc... In these days, you have to pay for everything.
smoked
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Posted: 20th Dec 2005 20:15 Edited at: 20th Dec 2005 20:15
i'll tell you this, I have both FPSC and DBP // I regret my FPSC purchase but still use it for fun... DBP is a much more satisfying purchase, for me anyhow.

Big Man
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Posted: 20th Dec 2005 20:45
Quote: "Like having food, medical threatment when necessary, etc... In these days, you have to pay for everything. "


You dont theoreticaly pay for medical treatment over here in england, but taxes are epic.

Our aim is to keep the loo's clean, your aim can help.
devastation
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Posted: 20th Dec 2005 21:35
Quote: "there are more important things in life."


yes like visual C++.


maybe he's canadian and gets all his healthcare paid for by the beer taxes and such.

you're gonna like darkbasic when you get it, but whatever you do don't forget to look for freeware before you buy another program to do something!


Halo Man
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Posted: 21st Dec 2005 01:23
C++ = You can create commercial quality games such as Doom 3 if you have the patience to type out 500,000 lines of code and are very experienced with C++ and DirectX.

DarkBASIC = A balance between easy <--> quality. You can create games that are fun, and they do not take all the programming skills needed to code in C++ and DirectX / OpenGL.

Hope that helped.

Make great games with C++ and OpenGL!
C++ Tutorial: http://www.cplusplus.com/doc/tutorial
OpenGL Tutorial: http://nehe.gamedev.net/lesson.asp?index=01
mr_fan
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Posted: 21st Dec 2005 03:38
I think dark basic pro is the perfect programing language for beginers, I have seen c and c++, and its just chaos. Maby this would help you when you get dbpro:

There are probly alot better tutorials out there, but this one gets to the point better. Well, in my opinion.

rvb Church: "hey, look, his armor its, red."
rvb Tucker: "well that'l explain how he got past our defences."
rvb Caboose : "Actuley he came through the back."
Corrupted Studios
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2005 04:02
well, from the DB codes that i have seen so far, its looks very simple and easy to learn, i mean i have never used DB yet, and i already understand the basic concept of creating a moving player camera and placing some models. although, it will probably be a little different when i get it!

i learned a bunch of cool scripting from modding for games such as Quake2 and ZDoom. i also did some VisualBasic application coding.

i have looked at C++ coding and i space out trying to figure out what the code combinations mean.

i remain puzzled... why not create an englishBASIC coding language... ;D

Corrupted Studios -
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Vlad
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2005 04:46
I thought C++ was hard and cryptic. Picked it up with DarkGame SDK that I had bought some weeks ago and a good book, and it's not a quarter as dificult as I expected. I read the book running, doing all examples ( no copy paste cheese )then took a design document and started coding my new game.

Sure, I'm just starting and debugging is somewhat mind blowing sometimes, but I got stuff working there in six hours, with no prior C++ knowledge or 3D programming knowledge at all, zero, nothing, nada. I had an empty C++ project and went to bed with a slightly bugged game board.

Saturday will end the second week of C++, study included. I have most of the center blocked oiled, just finished debugging today, so I can't say C++ is that hard, it's a myth in my opinion, but I have 99,999% of it to learn yet.

I do have coding background although I stoped writing more than 10 years ago and restarted now, which probably speed it up, since the obvious is still the same.

The learning curve to good clean code and practice will take a long time and that is not comparable to DarkBasic, which I think it's as easy as reading english, but it boils down to a personal choice. If you have ( or you manage to have ) a lot of hours to work on it, go for the hard part: C++. If you want faster results or a good introduction to game programming, go for DarkBasic, it's not like you'll have to stick with one of them for the rest of your life, is it?

I'm pretty sure I know everything. Doubts are something rare in me and I am never wrong, as this signature can prove.
MMORPG programs
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Posted: 24th Dec 2005 00:46
Quote: "go for DarkBasic"

I would actually recommend going 4 dbpro. Also, i'm starting to learn c++. I'd reccomend the "Learn c== in 24 hours" book. Its not that short, but most c++ books say they explain the basics but dont... Also, i know this sounds retarded but i'd like to join your group. i'm starting model design and starting to make sounds. Anyway dbpro is definetly what you should get.
Corrupted Studios
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Posted: 24th Dec 2005 18:51
you should email me sometime if you are interested in joining the team.

thing is, im a musician also. im in a metal band, and we are currently using a friends studio to record our album. were going to use his studio to do some sounds for our game. were going to start doing some voice scripting. and later i guess try to mix up some sound effects. etc.

Corrupted Studios -
Lead graphics design

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