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Geek Culture / Darwinia opinion

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Me!
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Posted: 15th Dec 2005 21:29
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OK! so I may be biased having had several run-ins with Steam and stupid unwanted up-dates that broke Halflife2 etc, plus its annoying having Valve flash adverts up on the screen every time I boot the PC, but I am going to try and give a fair review (with provable problems I found), I quite liked the look of Darwinia (still do), it looked like it could be a fun and interesting game, sadly I found it lacking in several respects.

Pro`s
graphicaly original(ish)
limited fun

Cons
Bad AI
Lousy pathfinding
Erratic controls
Poor playtesting (only capture one panel to activate pumps?)
limited sound
Steam
having adverts forced down your throat thanks to Steam
Steam

A nice idea but the play is annoying, I played the demo through 5 times and it has control problems, bad pathfinding, and I suspect the plot will get tired pretty fast (hard to judge from one simple level), it`s just your average RTS with no resource management beyond harvesting souls from the battlefeild to keep things going, and even that is un-needed since you can finish the main battle with just \"squad\" programs and never put your little digital stickmen at risk, in fact the \"squadies\" where the most useful thing on the map, but they had problems with grenade throwing, I tested it and occasionaly, when you threw a Grenade, your squad also got a order to march to that point (right on top of the grenade), so annoyingly you could have your squad suicide on you for no good reason.

want to confuse those \"oh so smart\" Darwinians? send em through a transporter and then click on the shoreline they just left, or just ask em to walk to another point that is not line of sight, or have two captains, one on one shore and one on another, then try to get one to call all the local digital people to you and watch as the other captain dashes to the shore to join him (DUH!).

I realy think the problem is Steam, the makers know it needs online activation, and Steam will update the code as and when they find bugs, so they just didn`t bother to look that hard, taking comfort in the knowledge that the customer can beta test the code for them and they can send out patches when they get round to it via Steam, it`s made em lazy, why bust your ass to bugtest the code when the punter can do it for you?, I am not impressed, they should be trying to prove the validity and benefits of Steam (arguable at the best of times anyway) and the benefit of online direct purchasing from the makers (IE low cost and good quality software), they failed on both counts imo.



Windows: 32 bit extension/graphical shell for a 16bit patch to an 8bit OS originally coded for a 4bit CPU, written by a 2bit company that can't stand 1bit of competition, now available in 64bits.
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Fallout
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Posted: 15th Dec 2005 21:37
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I've boycotted Steam. I dont think any compo game is worth having to put up with Steam. A few weeks back I fancied playing HL2 and giving it a go because I'd never given it a fair chance when I played it first time. Got the disc in hand and it took me 2 and a half flippin hours to install! Bloody Steam updates, compulsary patching over and over and over from slow servers. Then, when I finally got it running, it crashed within 10 minutes. It never crashed the first time I played it without patches.

No game is worth Steam.

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Sephnroth
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Posted: 15th Dec 2005 21:43
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..I had no idea Darwinia had anything to do with valve or steam. Im pretty sure its been out for quite a long long time

Reading about it I can see its just been added to steam recently, just another way to sell it and something else for valve to put on their service. Please note though that valve did NOT make Darwinia, it was made by Introversion.

I watched my friend play through quite alot of it when he bought it some time ago, I must admit he never suffered any problems with path finding that he complained to me about or that I saw and some of the levels were really fun.

Chances are the demo is using beta code, they usually do, rather than the final build of the engine from when it went gold.


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Tinkergirl
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Posted: 15th Dec 2005 21:51
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Steam has Darwinia now? Gosh.

I bought the poster for Darwinia before it was released to help Introversion get enough money to fund the remainder of its development. I bought Uplink before that.

Introversion are my heros.

The fact that Steam has anything to do with it stuns me.

Go get the proper Introversion version, and be done with Steam. It's got nothing to do with it. Support some real bedroom coders and buy the game proper - and while you're at it, download the demo of Uplink and discover real tension in a game again.
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Me!
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Posted: 15th Dec 2005 21:56 Edited at: 15th Dec 2005 22:21
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@Fallout: HA!, you just wait `till you "lose" your password or ID, took me a month and a half to get it sorted out, would have been easier and quicker to rob the local bank and buy a new copy with the proceeds or download it from a warez site, only reason I didn`t is cos I have this feeling I would end up being the Prison bitch if I was caught

@Sepnroth: if thats the case then it`s a poor way to advertise it (with flakey code), and don`t you think that since Steam is associated with Valve so intimatley they would take some effort to give a good experience?, seriously, the pathfinding is dire in the demo, anything other than LOS and they get stuck, that even goes for the combat units, plus other glitches, I never heard of Darwina until they started advertising it via steam, I know Valve didn`t write it (it says on the program manager) but they do sanction it and offer implied approval, all I ever seem to get Via Steam is problems and badly written code (currently Steam keeps displaying "#vgui" rather than the correct labels on the interface buttons..not re-assuring at all when you have to guess what button you are supposed to click or what you are agreeing to..or not).



[edit] @Tinkergirl: you can`t get the original demo of Darwinia (or any demo of Darwinia) off their site, seems they have some "devils agreement" with Steam, I would have liked to try the mine demo and see if the same problems where there, I don`t like shooting people just cos someone else let them down, I MIGHT try uplink, although to be honest it doesn`t look my style of game, I does seem to have an enthusiastic following though .

Windows: 32 bit extension/graphical shell for a 16bit patch to an 8bit OS originally coded for a 4bit CPU, written by a 2bit company that can't stand 1bit of competition, now available in 64bits.
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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 15th Dec 2005 22:00
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To add to Fallout's rant, using Steam is like being forced to eat pizza with nails hidden in the dough. You got some good content buried in a complete catsh*t program.

It runs slow, it crashes, it freezes, and it takes lengthy updates every 4 minutes.


The cat era has begun.
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 15th Dec 2005 23:37
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Quote: "Go get the proper Introversion version, and be done with Steam. It's got nothing to do with it. Support some real bedroom coders and buy the game proper - and while you're at it, download the demo of Uplink and discover real tension in a game again."


Surely buying the game through Steam would be 'supporting real bedroom coders' as well? I mean they didn't exactly license it to Valve for charity. They will get far more sales via Steam than they could ever dream to get on their own, good luck to them.

I'm amazed at all the 'Steam' issues. Have had it installed for what feels like years without a glitch, can play any game on the menu, nothing freezes, updates, well, they update like they are supposed to. My PC is getting on quite a bit now too, so it has nothing to do with hardware. I never have it running unless I want to play or update a game though, and the 'stacks of adverts' argument is lame and untrue. If you don't want the Steam update news to appear when you boot your PC, turn it bloody off. It does NOT randomly pop-up ads all over your PC, that's just bs.

I think the concept behind it rocks and wish more software used it, it's far less annoying than games which install the whole bloody thing onto your hard drive and STILL insist on having the DVD in the drive just so you can run them (gits). Now that's something worth actually moaning about.

Or games that *don't* automatically patch themselves like BF2 for example, where you have to try and find a download server on a patch day of release that isn't swamped or full of crapassed ads (ala anything IGN / gamespy related), only to find the servers are then half and half supporting it or not.

All games these days have 'issues' it would appear, Valve are far from alone here.

Exit Planet Dust
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spooky
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Posted: 16th Dec 2005 00:05
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Like Rich, I disabled Steam from starting up after the very first install. It only activates when I want to play HL2 which is not that often these days. If you have it running everytime you boot your pc then that's just stupid. Disable it now - your pc will love you for it.

Boo!
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dark coder
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Posted: 16th Dec 2005 00:06
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i have to totally agree with rich, although i dont plan on installing steam on this pc cause i simply played css too much, in the time i had it i had no problems whatsoever, from the moment i installed steam it downloaded hl2 and css rather quickly they both played fine, no lag, no crashing etc etc the updates updated themselves fine, although the last update changed the lods on objects so it seemed i was using a wallhack.

in my opinion the only thing steam is guilty for is making a game thats so addicing easily accessible.


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Fallout
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Posted: 16th Dec 2005 00:17
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I still disagree with Steam, especially as a student who is always moving about and not always connected to the internet. If your internet goes down, you can't play single player games.

It obviously has it's merits, but personally I'd always rather download patches myself and stick a CD in the drive. I often have times when I'm not able to get my PC onto the net, and I dont really want 100MB patches which are prodominantly multiplayer bug fixes when the single player game I've bought it for works fine.

In my view, there's no excuse for me having to wait 2 and a half hours downloading compulsary updates to play a game when it works fine with the initial version thats installed in 5 mins.

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 16th Dec 2005 00:21
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You've got a point - I do have direct net access, all the time, and not through some dodgey ICS share, or proxy server, or wireless router, etc. But proper hardwired roasting-hot fast net access. I guess that *does* make a difference to my opinion, and if I was moving about a lot (student, etc) I can see how it would be annoying.

Having said that, surely you knew how it worked from the start?

Exit Planet Dust
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Me!
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Posted: 16th Dec 2005 10:17
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Quote: "Having said that, surely you knew how it worked from the start"


nope, on the box under system requirements it says "internet access required", not "constant internet access required to do anything at all", I have loads of games that say "internet access required" on the box, and they all work just fine without it in single player, yes I could turn off Steam and only start it when I run HL but then I have to remember to turn it off again when I shut down (suspend), why should I?, I was under the impression that this happens to be my computer, not Valves, Steam is the biggest pile of Steaming <insert epithet here> I have ever had to suffer on my PC.

I would also like to point out that all these arguments about the wonders of being able to run HL whenever you like without the disk are just silly, you just subsituted the Internet for the disk, ID got rich on the backs of Doom/DoomII/Quake/Quake2 etc and not one of those games required you to insert the disk after you had installed, same goes for HalfLife, if you can get rich enough to own Ferraris and millionaire lifestyles without asking the user to insert the disk on every play, you can do it now as well. Steam may well run flawlessly on some peoples older systems, but it doesnt on my "freshly installed, fully patched and upgraded, latest drivers for all devices" system, and I find it realy annoying when you just want a quick play of a level in single player and have to wait 20 minutes for Steam to download a multiplayer patch cos there is no way to stop it once it gets it into it`s little mind theres an update to be had, it just refuses to run until it has that update, even killing the internet connection won`t get you a play .

@Richard Davey: thats cos as a member of the commercial software community you WOULD like the idea and support it, esp as on a simpler level thats exactly what you do yourselves , as a suffering customer I can tell you that given the option I would avoid anything requiring online activation (knowing what I know NOW), by all means sell me something online, by all means put security on the cd if thats what rocks your boat, but don`t start asking me for the honour of paying to jump through multiple hoops for your benefit

SOD! Just been interrupted while typing this, a Stealth bomber (the big black flying wing) just went over the house , about a thousand feet up....gobsmacked ...never seen one that close, grabbed camera and ran into garden ...DOH!, Batteries flat...bog!



Windows: 32 bit extension/graphical shell for a 16bit patch to an 8bit OS originally coded for a 4bit CPU, written by a 2bit company that can't stand 1bit of competition, now available in 64bits.
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 16th Dec 2005 11:18
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Nifty - never seen a Stealth Bomber up close & personal...

I did hear once the the American Navy wanted to do a stealth boat - did anything come of that ?

Blog:http://spaces.msn.com/members/BouncyBrick/
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dark coder
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Posted: 16th Dec 2005 11:26
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sea shadow?


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Me!
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Posted: 16th Dec 2005 14:14 Edited at: 16th Dec 2005 20:46
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stealth bombers came back , three times!, missed em the first time but was ready and waiting the other two, got some breif camcorder footage (see attached...no sound to save filesize..about 9meg)



Windows: 32 bit extension/graphical shell for a 16bit patch to an 8bit OS originally coded for a 4bit CPU, written by a 2bit company that can't stand 1bit of competition, now available in 64bits.

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 16th Dec 2005 14:22
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Nice footage there - are they quite quiet ?

Quote: "sea shadow?"

Possibly, although I thought they started a new one a few years ago.

Blog:http://spaces.msn.com/members/BouncyBrick/
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Killswitch
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Posted: 16th Dec 2005 14:38
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I'm sure I read somewhere that you can configure steam to allow you to play games without going on the internet (after you've done it once). That may just be my imagination though.

I quite like steam, I've never really had a problem but, like many people have said, I keep it off unless I'm playing a game.

~It's a common mistake to make, the rules of the English langauge do not apply to insanity~
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Van B
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Posted: 16th Dec 2005 14:53
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Of course you can play Half Life 2 and Counterstrike without an internet connection, just cancel your Steam login and your jammin - works for me, I often play CS:Source co-op over LAN against bots.


Van-B

Put away, those fiery biscuits!
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Deadwords
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Posted: 16th Dec 2005 15:30
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I agree with Rich. But i love the payment system, smooth, no bugs, simple. I buyed Counter Strike Source on Steam, and i love it all. Steam is an awesome concept, but it would be great if Steam had less annoying things. But also, Fallout has a point.

Skalex - Nobody can ear you scream ... you're on a forum!
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blanky
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Posted: 16th Dec 2005 16:06
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Heh. I don't know about you, but Steam broke offline mode with the new-styled update...

Now, unless I have an internet connection available on _both_ PCs it just says 'Login failed.' when I click 'Start in Offline mode'.

It worked before. Really, I'm just seriously lucky I upgraded to broadband pretty recently rather than pay-as-you-go dialup.

16-colour PNGs pwn.
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Fallout
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Posted: 16th Dec 2005 16:17
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@Rich

Yeah, like Me! I was unaware of the Steam internet requirements when I got HL2. Infact, I wasn't even aware of Steam at all, because I didn't buy HL2 myself. I think it was my bday or last xmas (whenever it was released) and I stuck it on my xmas list. I suppose you could blame me for not researching and reading the box, but I'd never encountered a system for a store purchased game that required constant internet access.

Ya know, I think things like DB for example have got it right with the online activation. I know that if I want to reinstall DB, I'd better make sure I have an inet connection when I do, or I use the trial period until I can activate. With HL2, I just can't use it unless I'm hooked up to some inet.

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Van B
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Posted: 16th Dec 2005 16:26
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Ahh, haven't updated in ages, due to my cruddy 10mb broadband only working on 1 PC at a time . It still works, so I'll probably try and *NOT* upgrade.

Been playing HL2 on the XBox recently, it's a real shame that CS:Source isn't provided, it'd be ideal for XBox Live.


Van-B

Put away, those fiery biscuits!
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Me!
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Posted: 16th Dec 2005 20:51
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@ I Am My greatest fan: they are not only quite but not that noticable for a big plane, the first shot is halfway through the pass because it was right on top of me before I noticed it, and I was standing with the camera ready, they sound about as loud as the noise of wind in trees on a breezy day, pretty quite (and I think they can use baffles to realy reduce noise when they want to at the cost of speed/fuel consumption), the new Eurofighter flight is just up the road, I think maybe they are playing wargames or maybe using Gedney bombing range for some calibration runs.



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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 18th Dec 2005 02:09
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I personaly have never had problems with steam, but a good friend of mine got banned once because steam made a mistake and thought he'd hacked something when he hadn't. He wasn't able to get it cleared and thus had to buy a new version of the game he was banned from.


Check the WIP board for updates on Block Verse
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Les Horribres
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Posted: 24th Dec 2005 23:57 Edited at: 25th Dec 2005 00:00
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Although this is not on the topic of the "I Hate Steam" as this thread has now become, I feel like explaining a few things. First of which is that gernade throwing is NOTHING like FPS Gernade throwing. You have to put your cursor where you want the gernade to be thrown. And you have to ALWAYS press space bar when you are going to select a different "program".

I just got the demo, and played it though... But after dealing with squadies in the first play (had 2 squaddies and 1 engineer [soul stealer]) I decided that... they SUCK. I mean if you have one of those incubators anywhere, just send all your darwinians into battle. Well this came to an interesting concept. I later found out that engineers can move across the oceans (during same play).

So in my second play I keep sending engineers across to "reprogram" the dish things, As long as you aren't transporting darwinians you can just make squaddie programs after reprogramming the towers. I kept killing my darwinians, and getting twice as many in return (darwinians die, enemys die, and you get both souls) (the engineers don't seem to get hit unless they are staying still). By the end of my second run with that demo I had sooo many darwinians that the red guys wouldn't spawn anymore.

I am not sure how the full version will go, but besides a nice story, this is really an easy game. You can't die. You allways can make programs, and you can make a massive army by stealing the souls of the dead. Where is the challange?

Merranvo, The Cool One

Anti-Noob Justice League, an ANJL of Mercy.
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