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Geek Culture / apple macs

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tpfkat
19
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Location: lancashire/uk
Posted: 24th Dec 2005 16:06
ive been curious about them.
on ebay you can buy a 400-500 mhz system quite cheap like in imac format.
if you were to take say a 2gig amd type pc and a 2 gig apple mac....which would give better results.??????

the programmer formarly known as thicko.
Nicholas Thompson
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Location: Bognor Regis, UK
Posted: 24th Dec 2005 19:38
I would have thought the apple due to a better chip architechture - although recently I think AMD have made quite a few advances.

Thing is - you dont buy a max because its faster... you buy it because its (currently) the only thing that can run MacOS. I bought an iBook a few months back and its great. Can take about a day's worth of development before the battery gives up. Stability is superb. Everything takes a while to get used to - but one it has, everything seems to feel "more in place" than in windows (hence Vista stealing a lot of idea's from MacOS, as far as I know)...

Big Man
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Posted: 24th Dec 2005 22:09
I know things are improving but as it stands there are far more applications that you can run on windows than mac has.
So I will stick with windows.

Our aim is to keep the loo's clean, your aim can help.
1tg46
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Posted: 24th Dec 2005 22:23
Before you think about getting a mac computer look at this:
Mac Video
Whether this will change whether you want a mac or not, I do not know; but this will tell you as to what you must keep in mind.

Reality is an illusion brought on by the absence of alcohol - this is not a literal statement

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Big Man
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Posted: 24th Dec 2005 22:29
Oh man I hope all of that is true for all macs cause I cant stand them. (
)

Our aim is to keep the loo's clean, your aim can help.
Undercover Steve
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Location: Vancouver, Little Canada(Washington)
Posted: 24th Dec 2005 23:47
Mac's are great for graphics and php development. I use my old g4 quite often. Really nice

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Nicholas Thompson
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Location: Bognor Regis, UK
Posted: 25th Dec 2005 00:41
Oh god its that video doing the rounds again! I hate it. Its funny and all if you see it as a joke - but its absolutely stupid if anyone bases their knowledge of a Mac on it. For starters its like saying PC's are crap because Windows 95 is unstable...

Also, you cant really slate the Mac for many things as Windows has MORE than its fair share of faults.

I REALLY like my iBook and I'm glad I made the leap of faith to get one. I was in the Mac store in Bluewater (shopping center in the UK) and I was umm-ing and arr-ing whether to get an iBook or Windows based laptop. Although windows laptops are cheaper, the iBook was well worth it. To give you an idea of stability, I've had it since october and I only ever put it to sleep by shutting the lid (I never turn it off). Since October I have restarted it about 4 times.
1) Using a beta version of Firefox, Yahoo!Mail crashed it and I turned it off to reboot it as I didn't know how to bring up the task manager application (I had been using it for about 20 minutes)
2) Installed updates to the OS that required a restart
3) Left it in the bag on low battery for about 2weeks while on holiday and the battery died - had to reboot it from "cold"
4) same as (2)

Christ knows how many times I've rebooted a PC since October

I agree with Undercover Noob - its BRILLIANT for development. Better than Windows imho. HOWEVER, dont expect to play all your favourite game on it. I have found very few compatible games.

Personally, I'm going to save up and get a PowerBook in a year or two (might donate the iBook to my sister when she gos off to uni...). I wish now that I'd got a powerbook to start with, however I couldn't justify the extra 50% price increase on the offchance I actually liked the Mac as a whole. I went for the iBook as it was quite a nice "introduction to" setup whilest also satisfying my need for a laptop. Its surpassed expectation.

Phaelax
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Location: Metropia
Posted: 25th Dec 2005 02:16
If that guy in the video is serious, he's gotta be the dumbest Mac user I've ever seen. I have a powerbook. Why? Because it never crashes, unlike a Windows. I don't care if you have XP or 2kpro, it'll crash at some point. Ctrl+alt+del doesn't work? The equivelant on Mac has never failed for me. Only time I had to use it was when I used a MS product on a Mac.

My powerbook is mainly for development and programming stuff. But if you primarily play games, stick with Windows.

Powerbook
G4 1.67GHz
ATI Radeon 9800 128mb
1gb ddr333

PC
P4 2.8e GHz
Nvidia 5900xt 128mb
1gb ddr333

Pretty even machines really, and I love them both. I do have much better sound equipment on my PC and use it for graphics as well because I'm still not used to that 1 button mouse yet.


Deadly Night Assassins
Antdizzle
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Location: Las Vegas
Posted: 25th Dec 2005 06:24
The guy in the video is obviously joking. And I have never had Windows XP system crash on me, but I have had a Mac crash on me once.
tpfkat
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Location: lancashire/uk
Posted: 25th Dec 2005 09:43
it seems quite devided.
in all honesty ive never had xp pro crash,but all the other versions have.
i read in quite a few places that the mac os is so stable they should have floated the titanic on it.
i mainly was thinking in the lines of for recording music and doing dv stuff,maybe even programming but i suppose that i should stick with the pc unless i have a mad hour and just buy one anyway.

the programmer formarly known as thicko.
Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 25th Dec 2005 23:55
To all those that say they've never had a WinXP crash - the words "LIARS!!" come to mind... I dont mean this in an insulting way - however I think you may have misinterpreted the meaning we intented for crashing windows.

Generally speaking, we tend not to mean it as writing windows off, or completely requiring a reinstall. Windows is appalling at handling memory and many other things in comparison to other OS's. This is one reason Windows servers tend to be restarted a lot more often than Linux ones

MacOS as an OS has never crashed, however applications on it have (once, a beta of firefox). On windows, not only is an application crash common to the point of my fingers automatically hitting Ctrl+S whenever there is a fraction of a second pause in my mind while I gather my thoughts, but I try to avoid trusting windows with anything of great importance unless I HAVE to.

Hell, I've even recently got into playing games over the internet using my PSP because its more stable!! Fifa 06 is great

But on topic, MacOS is stable and secure in comparison with windows. Windows is MUCH better than it used to be, but then again, so is Skoda

The only thing a Mac CANT do that Windows can is anything that involves DirectX. This puts nearly all modern PC games out the window, unless they come with a specific Mac version. It also rules out DBP. I would personally prefer DBP to use OpenGL, that way all games could easily be compiled for any OS

Killswitch
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Location: School damnit!! Let me go!! PLEASE!!!
Posted: 26th Dec 2005 00:58
It's a horrible overstatement that XP is bad at handling memory. Most of the time its bad software that causes the problem. Linux is far more annoying when it comes to memory allocation. If you try and run something and you don't have enough RAM left it just disapears. Gone. No warnings or anything. Windows is also subject to barrages of spyware and viruses (which OS X and any other operating system would get if they were as widely used as windows) which can also cause system instability.

~Heed my word hobags: Jism~
the_winch
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Location: Oxford, UK
Posted: 26th Dec 2005 01:02
Quote: "Linux is far more annoying when it comes to memory allocation. If you try and run something and you don't have enough RAM left it just disapears. Gone. No warnings or anything."




By way of demonstration, he emitted a batlike squeak that was indeed bothersome.
Me!
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Posted: 26th Dec 2005 12:02
I noticed that when it comes to results a lot of people seem to use Macs, if you watch the Star Wars "making of" video then you see loads of Macs in the studios and at ILM, they do have PC style devices (renderfarm front end Linux systems?), but they use a LOT of Macs and Ibooks, must be for a reason.



Windows: 32 bit extension/graphical shell for a 16bit patch to an 8bit OS originally coded for a 4bit CPU, written by a 2bit company that can't stand 1bit of competition, now available in 64bits.
tpfkat
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Posted: 26th Dec 2005 12:51
nicholas thompson: ive never had xp crash in any way,ive had the odd game not run properly but thats becuase of my anti virus software.......sorry buddy but to call people liars isnt very nice,i know you meant it in a freindly way but you just have to accept that some people maintain windows to prevent this sort of thing.

me! i noticed too that a lot of big companys use macs,also when you watch a movie,90% of the time if it shows them using a computer its an apple mac.

i noticed that steve jobs announced that apple machines will be running with intel processors and pc hardware, doe sthis mean in the future you could dual boot an apple mac with windows and os or will the architecture be strictly apple orientated?????

the programmer formarly known as thicko.
Me!
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Posted: 26th Dec 2005 21:48 Edited at: 26th Dec 2005 21:52
I think it`s a specific configuration of PC hardware, the hardware will just be a specific Apple configuration for the Apple OS to run on, no need for all the hundreds of drivers and devices that Windows has to support, you will just have Apple built PC`s that are made specificaly for OSX or whatever, you might be able to run Windows as a second boot, that depends on if they use Apple specific hardware and drives or PC compatable hardware (thinking of those weird constant speed cd drives for eg).



Windows: 32 bit extension/graphical shell for a 16bit patch to an 8bit OS originally coded for a 4bit CPU, written by a 2bit company that can't stand 1bit of competition, now available in 64bits.
alex 1337
User Banned
Posted: 27th Dec 2005 00:43 Edited at: 27th Dec 2005 00:44
I HATE MACS, AND APPLE CRAP LIKE IPODS
They Suck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Phaelax
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Posted: 27th Dec 2005 01:18
care to elaborate on your reasoning?


Deadly Night Assassins
_Nemesis_
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Location: Liverpool, UK
Posted: 27th Dec 2005 01:25 Edited at: 27th Dec 2005 01:32
Quote: "The guy in the video is obviously joking. "

Nope, if you check on his homepage, those things actually happened to him, and I can confirm a lot of them after having to work on Mac OS.... 8, it must have been - very old.
Though that's the only thing I don't particularly like about them, the operating system. I'm all for the architecture though and I'd like to see what they're doing with those Intels.

I'd probably go as far as saying I'd buy a Mac if they weren't so damn expensive - though I'm saying 'expensive' in relation to how much software I've got that'd actually run on it and how much use I'd get out of one.


Quote: "MacOS as an OS has never crashed, however applications on it have (once, a beta of firefox). On windows, not only is an application crash common to the point of my fingers automatically hitting Ctrl+S whenever there is a fraction of a second pause in my mind while I gather my thoughts, but I try to avoid trusting windows with anything of great importance unless I HAVE to.
"

In my opinion, PEBKC. It's been months since I've had an application crash on me, and that was 3DS Max when trying to export a huge file with some experimental settings.
I've never had Windows crash because of something wrong with the OS itself. It's always been the drivers or the hardware that's caused my problems, and I've been using XP since release and my Server 2003 machines haven't ever crashed though they have restarted due to me having it set to restart when a new update is downloaded.

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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 27th Dec 2005 02:17
When I said "liar" I didn't mean liar as in intentionally decieving, I meant it as in "selective memory". All computer-based things crash. Hell, Sky Plus crashed yesterday in the middle of recording something! Could have been a surge\brownout, poor OS, poor recording algorithm, corrupt data or just a cow facing the wrong way in a field south of Norwich!

It may not be windows as such that crashed, it could be an application on it. I have recently started using my PC and iBook about 50:50 as I find more and more that the the iBook makes things easier to do. In that time, I have found that "windows" crashes FAR more often than my iBook (when I say windows, here I mean an application with Windows). Even at work, Windows did the whole crash, reboot and they claiming its a champion for "recovering" from the crash.

In this time, as I have said, a beta of firefox went down ONCE (and I'm sure that was due to some wierd use of something on Yahoo!Mail).

I appologise for any offence, as you said, it wasn't meant. I was merely trying to say that Windows cant hold a piece of dust to many other OS's when it comes to stability (beit OS or app based).

Now, as you say, this could be due to things outside windows hands, such as drivers or poorly written apps, but still. Any decent OS should be able to cope with whatever gets thrown at it!

As for keeping the OS tidy. I am ALL for that. I rarely install beta drivers, unless a game is not working on the latest. I have a good virus checker, I dont download things that I know are likely to be viruses (you all know what I mean ). I regularly check for spyware and so on. I even defrag regularly! I take care of windows, although I do push it. I dont really give it an easy time. I have plent open, often all in use in some way. Thing is - I treat my MUCH less powerfull iBook the same way and its perfectly stable. In fact, right now, I have Firefox with 8 tabs, about 4 Finders, TextWrangler, CyberDuck (FTP App), iTunes playing Xmas music and I recently turned it into a Apache/PHP/MySQL server. Apart from a slight lack of RAM (so paging is caused), its running perfectly (maybe a touch warm on my legs ).

Mac's also have thing "l33t" status that kind of flows around them. You VERY rarely see a "n00b" with a Mac. I can see why - Windows is MUCH easier to get to grips with because it simply does so much for you. Sometimes, though, you dont want that. Sometimes you actually want a little control. Mac does this in a nice transparent way (imho). For example, installing/uninstalling: In windows, you have to specify the folder by path. In MacOSX, you run the DMG file, then drag the App somewhere (usually the Apps folder (or subfolder)) and it does the rest for you. Similarly, to remove, drag the icon from Apps to the Trash. You have much easier control, but the OS keeps the actuall install to itself.

Anywho - enoguh from me!!

Phaelax
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Posted: 27th Dec 2005 07:20
I think the Windows start menu is more efficient than Apple's dock. Put 50 application shortcuts on each and see which is easier to navigate through


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Big Man
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 21:12
Yeah that was what I was thinking it is really hard to navigate a mac.

My friends mac has the latest mac os and it is soo hard to navigate.

BM

Our aim is to keep the loo's clean, your aim can help.
Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 21:44
I have 2 imacs and a powerbook, which I "inherited" after a friend's husband died. They are very stable, they never crash. But I hate the OS, just can't get used to it... Was going to buy them off her but if I can't get my head around them soon I'm just gonna sell them instead


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soapyfish
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 21:58 Edited at: 28th Dec 2005 22:04
I got an iBook for Christmas and I'm already pretty comfortabe with it. There are little quirks that still need getting used to but if there's anything I don't know about I can find out using google in a matter of minutes.

Quote: " I think the Windows start menu is more efficient than Apple's dock. Put 50 application shortcuts on each and see which is easier to navigate through"


Kinda depends what size screen you have doesn't it, my iBook has quite a smalll screen but some of the powerbooks are the size of a baby elephant (well, maybe not that size, but you get the idea).

You can also put icons on the mac desktop don't forget, not just the dock. The applications file is a bit like the start bar, in that you can access your programs from there. I can get there just by hitting command, shift and c. Or I could use the spotlight.

I agree that a start menu with 50 icons will proabably be easier to navigate than a dock with 50 icons, but after a few years use my wiondows start bar had a lot more than 50 and was a real pain in the pancreas to navigate, whereas I doubt I'll ever have 50 icons in the dock.


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Phaelax
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Posted: 29th Dec 2005 12:40
i got the 17" powerbook and set the res at its max. I haven't had any problems yet, but i will if i install as much stuff on it as my windows. I dont want to open the apps folder everytime i need to use something.


Deadly Night Assassins

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