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Geek Culture / Can we use MP3s Legally?

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Arrow
21
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Joined: 1st Jan 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 4th Mar 2003 19:45
Yo, I was reading some posts here and someone said that mp3s was a compyrighted format, and that we'ld have to pay something like $2,500 to have them in our games. Is this true?
Am I a butterfly dreaming I'm a man?
Or a bowling ball dreaming I'm a plate of samishi?
Never assume that what you see or feel is real.
Kangaroo2
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 4th Mar 2003 20:19
If you sell more than 5000 copies, you may well get a bill for a $2500 liscence. But once you had sold 5000 copies, at say $10 each, $2500 doesn't seem so bad. If it does, why not use OG files or another free format with equal compression

Coming Soon! Kangaroo2 Studio... wait and quiver with anticipation! lol
samjones@kangaroo2.com - http://www.kangaroo2.com - If the apocalypse comes, email me
rapscaLLion
22
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Joined: 29th Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posted: 5th Mar 2003 23:05
yes it's true, and I know that the 5000 copy thing was there before, but it's not clear whether it's still 5000 copies now, it may just be 0 copies...

http://www.mp3licensing.com/royalty/index.html

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Kousen Dev Progress >> Currently Working On Editors
rapscaLLion
22
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Joined: 29th Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posted: 5th Mar 2003 23:06
n/m I'm a dumb It says 5000 copies right at the bottom

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Kousen Dev Progress >> Currently Working On Editors
Benjamin
21
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Joined: 24th Nov 2002
Location: France
Posted: 5th Mar 2003 23:07
'If it does, why not use OG files or another free format with equal compression '

someone tell me, can u play those files in DBPro??

xxxpetratxxx
B. R. W
Kanzure
21
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Posted: 6th Mar 2003 00:22
I believe it may be the EXACT same as mp3s, so yes. I don't believe DBPro or DB plays music files by the extinsion.

~Morph
Owner of MultiCode.NET and Multi2k.NET.
Nothing is something, and something is then nothing. Life is an illusion.
rapscaLLion
22
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Joined: 29th Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posted: 6th Mar 2003 04:59
No, DB can not play this by default, however I think (not sure) that it can using Bassmod.dll (something like that)
It is a sequenced file, like Midi but better.

(correct me if I'm wrong of course)

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Kousen Dev Progress >> Currently Working On Editors
Arrow
21
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Joined: 1st Jan 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 6th Mar 2003 05:17
Damn, well if I ever make something good enoght to sell, I'll only release 4999 copies, not like that'll happen.

Am I a butterfly dreaming I'm a man?
Or a bowling ball dreaming I'm a plate of samishi?
Never assume that what you see or feel is real.
bitJericho
21
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Location: United States
Posted: 6th Mar 2003 07:21
4999x10$ a copy = 49990$ - 2500$ = 47490$ profit = not a bad liscence deal...

at least i think my math's right...
Arrow
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Location: United States
Posted: 6th Mar 2003 17:52
The truoble is you have to sell that many. If you make 5000 games but only 100 games sell, 100 X 10 - 2500 = -1500. That's why you only make 4000 to 4800 games, you don't don't have to buy the licence, no risk. If the game takes off then you can aford it, thus you make more games.

Also that would be you're true profit, you forgot about accully making the game, the cost of publishing.

Am I a butterfly dreaming I'm a man?
Or a bowling ball dreaming I'm a plate of samishi?
Never assume that what you see or feel is real.
Shadow Robert
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Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 6th Mar 2003 18:50
if you develop, publish and sell the game yourself - then really it makes no sense to run off 5,000 copies from the get go ... you do a sell-on-demand system, where you burn the games only as ordered - i mean it is very unlikely that an amature game on the net is likely to get enough customers per week to actually warrent such costs.

But for any real worth while distribution (because alot of pay'n'download games don't sell cause you have to repurchase if you loose then and technically the licences to protect yourself from people retailing it without your knowlage actually prevent people from burning it so that they can have a hard copy.

So look at it this way ->
200 Blank CDRs 80min/700Mb - £50.00
200 DvD Style Cases - £2.50 each (£500.00)

that just for the main game ... you then want labels to go on the CDs (so they don't look tacky)
200 CD Labels - £80.00

cover leafs and manual ->
500 Sheets of Laser Glossy Paper - £10.00
3x500 Sheets of Watermark Glossy Paper - £30.00
(again so it doesn't look tacky)

Stapler and Staple for Books - £8.00
Guilloten for neating it up - £15.00

CDR - £40.00 (however for something actually worth while, you're looking at a good bit more)
CDR Software like EasyCD5 Platinum - £60.00 (DataCD is best for creating professional quality CDs)

plus a printer capable of Colour Printing on Glossy paper
Lexmark Z12 is good - £50.00
extra Colour Carts for 400sheets + extra Black Cart - £125.00


So before you even start you're looking at a good ammount of cost and work (around £5/cd + p&p which is £5 UK inland, £10 worldwide with DHL or Royal Mail)

when you figure everything into account its harder to afford than most people realise

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Benjamin
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Location: France
Posted: 7th Mar 2003 00:03
what r u talking about? u cant burn the games urself! if you use shareIt then they do that for you...

xxxpetratxxx
B. R. W
indi
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Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 7th Mar 2003 04:52
I was looking at a device that takes the master burns a copy picks up the cd and prints the label then picks up the cd again and places it on the side of the machine like a mini factory robot.

the prices look a little high at the momo but it will drop.

Printing costs can be a lot cheaper if u know the right people.

AGamer
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Posted: 8th Mar 2003 16:06
Do you know pepole and if you do who?

There's no game made for you except the one's made your self
John H
Retired Moderator
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Location: Burlington, VT
Posted: 9th Mar 2003 01:19
AGamer I dont think this effects you right now Nor any of us for that matter......

Current - RPG: Eternal Destiny
http://www.halbrosproductions.netfirms.com
Dont ask those questions! Read the help files lazy! Oh ya, and Tat has a plugin for that!
Kangaroo2
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 9th Mar 2003 02:07
Appaert from me! lol I'm actually researching in2 this just yesterday

Coming Soon! Kangaroo2 Studio... wait and quiver with anticipation! lol
samjones@kangaroo2.com - http://www.kangaroo2.com - If the apocalypse comes, email me
LLX
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Posted: 9th Mar 2003 03:25
i print cs al lthe time, mad what was it....bout 100 music CDs the other month for a singer who website i manage, i did the CD labeling, design and printing all with Neto ez cd designer, a Brother MFC 5100c printer, and CD label paper. It's not really pricy when you consider that the hard where and softwhere are buy once so their price is a factor of lifespan of product.

Shadow Robert
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 9th Mar 2003 04:37
yeah problem is alot of hardware knowlages needed, connections to the cheapest companies (oftenly wholesale retailers), etc... and just general things that arn't readily available to the everyday person who wants to have thier games published.

i mean professional equippment is good for stuff like this when it runs of Nth number of CDs and such and take manuals to printing houses etc...

but for the bedroom publisher this is ALOT of work even finding the companies that sell these (let alone purchasing them without a credit card oftenly is a good uphill struggle)

prices i noted are from any general highstreet store like Maplin/Tandy/PC World, which is something local and available - and really the costs arn't too great because its still quite a bit of profit, if you do £10/cd + p&p that means £5 net profit

so 50% profit margin is pretty respectable no?
but then you pay the royalties etc, etc, etc... hehee and thats when the REAL fun begins eh

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Andy
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Posted: 9th Mar 2003 04:43
>i print cs al lthe time, mad what was it....bout 100 music
>CDs the other month for a singer who website i manage, i
>did the CD labeling, design and printing all with Neto ez
>cd designer, a Brother MFC 5100c printer, and CD label
>paper. It's not really pricy when you consider that the
>hard where and softwhere are buy once so their price is a
>factor of lifespan of product.

Which is ok for demo and small series production... However, if I buy a computer game, I either want a real pressed CD or just a download!

rapscaLLion
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Location: Canada
Posted: 9th Mar 2003 05:16
ok... how did we end up so off topic?

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Kousen Dev Progress >> Currently Working On Editors
LLX
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Posted: 9th Mar 2003 06:32
well my employer seems to think that the perfectly fit seemless stickers are good enough for distrubution, and really unless you pic at it you cant tell its not painted on.

Shadow Robert
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 9th Mar 2003 06:52
there is a CD Labeler (by memorex if i remember correctly) which you print off standard labels but onto a slightly more expensive film thing, you then put it in and pull the handle one turn - and you have seemless labels.

its slightly more expensive than the clear sticker labels, but it works a treat... its what the guys at PCGUK use
and you can take the labels off them, but the edges each side are like melted on so to really get them off you have to crack them open (^_^)

all about what your willing to pay really

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
John H
Retired Moderator
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Location: Burlington, VT
Posted: 9th Mar 2003 17:41
Raps: I dunno, like Raven said, we all have really short attention spans

Current - RPG: Eternal Destiny
http://www.halbrosproductions.netfirms.com
Dont ask those questions! Read the help files lazy! Oh ya, and Tat has a plugin for that!
Andy Igoe
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Posted: 9th Mar 2003 18:25
How does this license affect free distribution - seeing as it is not a percentage ?

Pneumatic Dryll, Outrageous epic cleric of EQ/Xev
God made the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 9th Mar 2003 19:34
I think its ok, but I wouldn't bet on it

Coming Soon! Kangaroo2 Studio... wait and quiver with anticipation! lol
samjones@kangaroo2.com - http://www.kangaroo2.com - If the apocalypse comes, email me
Andy Igoe
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Posted: 10th Mar 2003 15:44
Remind me to remove my download counters when they get to 4,900 just to be sure...

Pneumatic Dryll, Outrageous epic cleric of EQ/Xev
God made the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
Steverino
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Location: United States
Posted: 10th Mar 2003 18:02
Back off topic for a second... printers that print directly on CDs have gotten a lot cheaper lately: http://www.ezcdprinter.com/products.html (link for example purposes only, not an endorsement)

Surrealist writing toy -- http://www.iconpoet.com

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