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Geek Culture / guitar buying help

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IanG
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 18:46
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Hi people,

christmas has been and gone and i have some money to spend and i was interested in buying a guitar, as i have wanted to learn to play the guitar for over a year now, but i was wondering what is the best guitar to start out with

i've done some surfing and i found a squier strat pack http://www.soundcontrol.co.uk/mod_1/pages/mod_1.12/pages/mod_1.12.1/pages/mod_1.12.1.1/pages/index.php?sku=1.1.1.1.1-23-1342
and a fender frontman
http://www.soundcontrol.co.uk/mod_1/pages/mod_1.12/pages/mod_1.12.1/pages/mod_1.12.1.1/pages/index.php?sku=1.1.1.1.4-7-183-184.8.111

both are starter packs which is probably better for me and both are sub £200 - which is good, but what is better and are there any better ones to go with?

thanks,
Ian


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Big Man
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 19:00 Edited at: 28th Dec 2005 19:01
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Hi
I have been playing the guitar now for just under 5 years and in that time I have bought 4 guitars slowly building up to my electric but I only ever bought a new guitar when I thought I was good enough to move on here is what I would advise you to do.

1. Buy a cheap guitar (Maybe acoustic)
2. start learning and then see if you really like it before maybe moving on to an electric

Why?
If you go out and spend £140-£180 on a guitar and then six months later you decide that the guitar is not for you, you have just wasted all of that money.
Whereas if you buy say an £80 guitar and then decide you dont like it you havent waisted soo much money.

If however you buy a cheap guitar and then decide you do like it then you should think about a more expensive peice.

Hope this helps

BM

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Zotoaster
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 19:16
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I would go with a squire strat, that was my first electric and it has served me well.

I have been playing guitar for 4 years now, and I have 5 guitars, and I am going to look for another sometime the day after tomorrow. I think if you are really going to be hardcore Ibanezez are good, but to be honest, I wouldn't get one as your first one.


Quote: "Whereas if you buy say an £80 guitar and then decide you dont like it you havent waisted soo much money."


I bought an £80 guitar once. It sucked! The neck was so bent that no matter how well i tuned it it played out of tune. My friend got one for £85, his sucked too.

but yeah, go for a strat, it's affordable, and great for a first guitar

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IanG
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 19:16 Edited at: 28th Dec 2005 19:22
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@bigman:
well i do see your point, but i forgot to mention how it's not just a "that would be nice" thought, i have learnt to play a few simple songs, like smells like teen spirit by nirvana, over last summer, using a friends guitar - he swears by peavey, but i've got another friend who swears by fender, so i thought i'd ask here

another reason why i thought of buying an electric is that it would be cheaper in the long run, rather than buying an acoustic then an electric

@zotoaster:
Quote: " I would go with a squire strat, that was my first electric and it has served me well"

and is slightly cheaper, which is always good

Quote: "but yeah, go for a strat, it's affordable, and great for a first guitar "

thanks for your opinion, i think i might get that one then


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Les Horribres
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 19:22
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Don't buy a guitar, buy yourself a rifle, lot more fun.

Merranvo, The Cool One

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IanG
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 19:23
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like the idea of a rifle, probably be more fun, but my paarents wouldn't allow it, they won't even let me have a bb gun


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Big Man
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 19:27
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Quote: "Ibanezez are good"


Thats what I have but only from a lot of saving.

@IanG - Ok now I know that I would suggest you take a look at this.

http://www.imuso.co.uk/ProductDetail.asp?StockCode=EG00419
you can get that in blue and black as well

and this
http://www.imuso.co.uk/ProductDetail.asp?StockCode=EG00425

that again comes in two other colours black and yellow sunburst.

Ibanezes are known for being great bugget guitars.

BM

Our aim is to keep the loo's clean, your aim can help.
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Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 19:29 Edited at: 28th Dec 2005 19:32
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I can't recommend the squirer strat starter packs enough, the quality is 85% as good as a 500quid "official" Fender, plusthe little amps you get are very competant and can take a good kicking. I own one of these and a "real" stratocaster for my studio, and whilst the "real" one is better, its not 300quid better!

The fender you linked to is no more a "real" strat than the sqirer (they are both budget guitars endoresed by fender and made by fender plans, but are not "real" stratocasters, which are made in specific factories with specific highly trained workers, better materials etc.), and whilst again they are very nice, they aren't worth the extra 50 odd quid imho.

[edit] I just saw the ibanez guitars bigman posted, the second one is a very nice guitar, very nice heavy sound and light to play - but thats 150 for just the guitar - for a starte "kit" I still think the squirer kit is the best value for money

I started learning on one of the squirer sets at 15 - I'm now 24 and own my own recording studio and indie label


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IanG
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 19:31 Edited at: 28th Dec 2005 19:37
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@bigman:
a bit on the expensive side i think, i mean after i've bought an amp with that and all the other stuff that would be a lot more than the squier

@kangaroo:
Quote: "I started learning on one of the squirer sets at 15 - I'm now 24 and own my own recording studio and indie label"

cool

Quote: "whilst again they are very nice, they aren't worth the extra 50 odd quid imho"

okay now i'm definetly sideing with the squier

[edit]just noticed your edit
Quote: "[edit] I just saw the ibanez guitars bigman posted, the second one is a very nice guitar, very nice heavy sound and light to play - but thats 150 for just the guitar - for a starte "kit" I still think the squirer kit is the best value for money"

i think it would be pointless spending that much to learn on, i'd probably end up damaging it before i could properly appreciate it


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Big Man
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 19:59
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no probs about the amps have a look at this

http://www.stagebeat.co.uk/P/2356/BACKSTAGE+GUITAR+AMPLIFIER

the same wattage as the starter kit and all in all you have better equiptment with what I have shown you. But if you really want one of those starter kits I would go for the fender frontman as the whole pack looks like it has more quality even if it is more expensive.

BM

Our aim is to keep the loo's clean, your aim can help.
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IanG
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 20:28
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is tthe fender £40 pounds better, i mean it looks like it has a bigger amp but would i be better off using a small one as it is only a practice amp


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Mattman
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 20:33
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Squires are smaller then they look, trust me.


Down with GTA! Let's have Mario Ground Pound 'em!
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Big Man
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 20:35
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the fender is £40 better not just because of the amp size the guitar itself is better.

BM

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Luke B
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 20:36
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Hi IanG,

I think this might suite your needs: http://www.gear4music.com/index.php?sec=proddetails&pcode=001EAMP

It's a Stratocaster style electric guitar, and you get a package with
a 15 watt amplifier, guitar bag, strap, leads and spare strings.
It's not the best quality instrument you can buy, but it's ideal for
a beginner, and it would most likely rate on the same quality level
as a Squire.
To my knowledge this is the cheapest package you can get, and it's
fair quality too.

Hope this helps - I'm a drummer though

"The Oppression" (See Biog)

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IanG
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 21:02
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@luke:
i had a look at that but i was put off by the way it is a "style" guitar, i'd prefer to go with a named brand rather than one by a store(the same way as hienz baked beans over asda's own, the same but very different)

Quote: " Squires are smaller then they look, trust me."

smaller? in what way, are the smaller than full size?


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Mattman
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 21:05
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Oh yes, they're usually for beginners and are built for kiddos.


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IanG
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 21:07
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are we talking 3/4 then?


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Big Man
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 21:08 Edited at: 28th Dec 2005 21:09
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yeah you are.
Go for the fender or the ibanez guitar and the amp I showed you.

if you work it out it is only £160 for the two of them(Amp and first ibanez guitar in post) Not bad.

BM

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IanG
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 21:16
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but the fender one is a "Squier Affinity Strat by Fender", so would that be 3/4 as well


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Big Man
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 21:29 Edited at: 28th Dec 2005 21:30
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no its full size

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IanG
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 21:32
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even though its called a squire? makes little sense to me


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Big Man
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 21:35
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you get some 3/4 squires and some full size squires its not hard to comprehend.

BM

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IanG
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 21:38
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Quote: " you get some 3/4 squires and some full size squires its not hard to comprehend"

ahh - i thought that all squires were 3/4 by mattman's post


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Jake Blues
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 21:43
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I'd go for a ibanez or fender, they are the best in my opinion.

I have a ibanez acoustic, which is really nice and is what I started on. Don't get those starter packs, they are big ripoffs. I'd go and buy a nice acoustic, not too expensive, for a starter guitar and then work up to an electric, I'd suggest Fenders.


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Big Man
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 21:51
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no there not all 3/4 Iv'e played some full size squires.

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Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 22:22 Edited at: 28th Dec 2005 22:22
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I've NEVER seen NOT full sized Squirers - I didn't think Fender liscenced 3/4 sized instruments becasue the whole point is they come from their exact moulds!?!? I'm not 100% sure they don't exist, I'm just saying they certainly aren't common in the shops I go to!

The one you linked to is definitely a full sized one, and the "Fender" one underneath it is close to identical, you are just paying for the fender badge, which is silly as Squirer is also a Fender brand!


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IanG
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Posted: 29th Dec 2005 00:19
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so in your opinion the fender one is not better even though it has a more powerful amp?


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Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 29th Dec 2005 00:34
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The Amp is the only genuine plus point, unless you just want to show off the "fender" badge.

For learning and practicing at home, the squirer amp will do just fine, and for gigs, performances etc you'd want a better one than the one wih the more expensive set, so it seems to me you're better off saving your money and buying a better amp when you have learnt well enough to warrant turning it up that loud


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IanG
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Posted: 29th Dec 2005 11:01
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okay thank you all for your help


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Phaelax
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Posted: 29th Dec 2005 12:36
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Quote: "1. Buy a cheap guitar (Maybe acoustic)"

I hated when my mom told me to start on acoustic (was a classical technically). So i was forced to by an electric myself in 8th grade.

Quote: "ahh - i thought that all squires were 3/4 by mattman's post"

Most squires i've seen are full size.

I love the Wizard II necks on the Ibanez, so flat and smooth.

For a beginner, you can't go wrong with an Squier. My first guitar was a Bentley. (not related to the car co.) I still have, disassembled, along with a Fender acoustic, Fender tex-mex (discontinued), custom-built Carvin (active/passive electronics), and Gretsch acoustic. I'm still trying to save up for a Larivee acoustic, its my favorite I ever played.

There's really no such thing as "too cheap" when you're first starting out.


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Wiggett
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Posted: 29th Dec 2005 14:24 Edited at: 29th Dec 2005 14:24
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ok listen to my advice cause I am the pirate god of rock. Both of them are pretty good for starter kits, but prolly go for the second one as it has more stuff. Squierer is the standard starter kit and its pretty solid, but the frontman is pretty good too and it comes with a dvd! also your db work is awesome, but get lessons, cause im still struggling to remember sheet and i've been playing for a few years.


edit: sorry got u mixed up with ianT

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IanG
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Posted: 29th Dec 2005 15:06
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Quote: "edit: sorry got u mixed up with ianT"

i was going to say my db work doesn't bare thinking about

once again thanks for your help, i would go for the fender but it is out of stock so i might just go for the squier


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tpfkat
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Posted: 29th Dec 2005 17:20
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ibanez and marshall

the programmer formarly known as thicko.
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Phaelax
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Posted: 29th Dec 2005 17:29
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Quote: "i would go for the fender but it is out of stock so i might just go for the squier"


squier is a fender.

Fender - Squier
Ovation - Applause (i had one of those)
Gibson - Epiphone
Jackson - Charvel

Personally, I never cared for Marshall amps. Nothing against their sound or quality, but they just cost too much in my opinion.


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tpfkat
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Posted: 29th Dec 2005 18:09
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i got my marshall cheap.it was that or the mesa boogie.
squires are not fenders,though made by the fender company they are made from cheaper materials same for the rest of the list,jackson made jackson guitars but allowed another company to make the charvel, although they had the same shape as a jackson they had nowhere near the same quality of workmanship or sound.

epiphone were the same, another company with the rights to use the design for the mass produced market.

with guitars it all depends on what you want,i kknow players that are great,but have crap guitars,and crap players with good guitars,it makes no real difference,give steve vai an encore and it will still sound like him playing,give joe walsh a jackson....itd still sound like him...give nuno betencourt an applause and it will sound like him...give wyngie malmsteen any guitar and it will still sound crap.

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Phaelax
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Posted: 29th Dec 2005 22:06
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Quote: "squires are not fenders,though made by the fender company they are made from cheaper materials same for the rest of the list,jackson made jackson guitars but allowed another company to make the charvel, although they had the same shape as a jackson they had nowhere near the same quality of workmanship or sound."


that's what I meant, a sub-company, but not same quality.

Quote: "give wyngie malmsteen any guitar and it will still sound crap.
"

hahahahaha


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Mattman
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Posted: 30th Dec 2005 05:27
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Sorry, from what I understand squiers were the starter guitar line from fender. My friend has one that seems tiny for me.


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tpfkat
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Posted: 30th Dec 2005 10:31
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squires are the same size as fenders,they also make the smaller versions for children ( van halen originally started this with esp guitars as he wanted one for his son).
if your a begginner in guitars then the quality wont make much difference as it will need a lot of practice to learn,when you can make a crap guitar sound good then youve passed and move on.

dont forget as well that jackson gave the rights to another company to make charvel who in turn opened another little factory and made the charvette guitar..........avoid charvettes at any cost,they are crapper than crap,heavy,not a very nice sustain, cheap wood ( i think its conpressed papier mache) and all round crap crap crap crap crap. good for kindling if lost in a forest though.

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Phaelax
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Posted: 30th Dec 2005 14:36
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Quote: "charvel who in turn opened another little factory and made the charvette guitar"

I forgot about charvette. hehehe, chevelle and chevette? hmmmm, cheverolet?

my bentley was plywood. i want my next electric to be made of purple heart and some other woods.


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himynameisali
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Posted: 30th Dec 2005 14:55
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Gibson, Epiphone (Which is part of Gibson), BC Rich and Jackson are recommended by me and other famous musicians, Mick Thomson (Slipknot), Corey Beulieu (Trivium), and Daron Malakian (System Of A Down).

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IanG
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Posted: 30th Dec 2005 18:03
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maybe i'll go to them after i've learnt to play, it's stupid to go out and spend loads if your just starting out


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