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Geek Culture / Integrated graphics...slower games?

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Torsten Sorensen
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Posted: 4th Jan 2006 02:28
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Hey, I have been wondering for a while why games that I own have always run so slowly, when I have even more RAM, then the recomended RAM (I have 760, recomended is 512). Does it have to do with my graphics card being an integrated 64 MB (I think its 64 MB...)?

Thanks - Torsten

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dark coder
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Posted: 4th Jan 2006 02:33
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well you cant judge how good a gpu is by its ammount of ram, but for the sake of argument yes your intergrated graphics is the problem, also your cpu will effect games preformance, best to post your complete system specs.

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Torsten Sorensen
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Posted: 4th Jan 2006 02:43 Edited at: 4th Jan 2006 03:58
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I have...
760mb - RAM
2.40 GHz - CPU (Click the source button for the worst processor)
Windows XP Home Edition SP2 - OS/SP
Creative SB Audigy 2 - Sound card
Direct X 9.0c
Integrated 64 MB - Graphics

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John H
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Posted: 4th Jan 2006 03:47
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You left out your GFX Card o_O

What kind of games are you trying to play?


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Torsten Sorensen
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Posted: 4th Jan 2006 03:57
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Quote: " You left out your GFX Card o_O"

On my original post it said integrated 64 mb.

I'm mostly playing The Sims 2, and Starwars battlefront II.

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TKF15H
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Posted: 4th Jan 2006 04:06
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Quote: "I'm mostly playing *** **** *, and Starwars battlefront II."

Shsh, you're not supposed to mention that game.

And yeah, integrated gfx cards tend to be horrible at gaming, I suggest you get a new one. Remember to check if the bus type is the same (AGP/PCI/PCI-E) or you'll end up with the card sitting in the closet picking up dust.

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Gowmars
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Posted: 4th Jan 2006 04:07
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Quote: "Integrated 64 MB - Graphics"


yeah i would say its your graphics card. Intergraded graphics card and games just don’t mix. And for most games these days the minimum ram on a graphics card is 128.
if its integrated that probably means you don’t have an AGP slot, so get yourself a decent PCI graphics card.

yeah Celeron = bad

but I think if you get a new graphics card you will be a lot better off.


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TKF15H
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Posted: 4th Jan 2006 04:17
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Quote: "if its integrated that probably means you don’t have an AGP slot, so get yourself a decent PCI graphics card. "

No it doesn't. It's unrelated. o_O
My motherboard has a on-board video card and an AGP slot.
Actually, if his mother-board has an AGP slot, it's more likely to have a on-board video card as all newer motherboards have them.

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Gowmars
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Posted: 4th Jan 2006 09:13 Edited at: 4th Jan 2006 09:15
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Quote: "all newer motherboards have them."


I beg to differ. I'm under the impression that the majority of the time inegrated graphics mother boards dont have AGP. and seeing how PCI-E is the new thing. All new mobos will most likely have no AGP and PCI-E in its place.


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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 4th Jan 2006 09:27 Edited at: 4th Jan 2006 09:36
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Quote: "I beg to differ. I'm under the impression that for the most part inegrated graphics mother boards dont have AGP. and seeing how PCI-E is whats in. All new mobos will most likely have no AGP and PCI-E in its place."


Most PCI-E motherboards don't seem to have built in Graphics, and the thread is about an existing motherboard with onboard graphics. Most likely AGP, or both.

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power mousey
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Posted: 4th Jan 2006 09:44
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yeah,

i have integrated graphics on both of my computers. Games made in the early eighties and upward to the nineties and for Windows run really good or decent on both of these computers.

On my Compaq Presario:

cpu: AMD K6-500 MHz
ram: 64 mb
video graphics: Trident integrated chipset

On my HP Pavilion:

cpu: Pentium 4 1.6 GHz
ram: 256 mb
video graphics: Sis 650 integrated chipset


games such 'Sacred' and 'Divine Divinity' run okay but occassionally
stifle or burp from time to time. In one game called 'Restricted Area' the outdoor scenes where the cave and building locations are...runs fine and good. But the big 3d-isometric area where you acquire missions from businessmen and others is so slow when you move your character around using the mouse. The speed performance drops as well when accessing menus such as your stats and inventory too.


time for me...I guess... to upgrade to at least an Nvidia FX 5200 128 mb. In my HP computer...there is one AGP slot and 2 PCI slots. With the AGP, I must be careful that the 3d video card does not go over AGP 4X and is backward compatible from AGP 4X or lower.


cheers,

power mousey
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Me!
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Posted: 4th Jan 2006 09:44 Edited at: 4th Jan 2006 09:50
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can you see a shorter brown coloured connector slot above the PCI slots?, NOT one half the length and chunky, (that would prolly be a AMR slot or something), but one just slightly shorter than the PCI slots?, if you have that then you can use AGP cards, if you don`t want to open the case then go into the BIOS at setup and under integrated peripherals see if you have an option to "disable onboard graphics" (you will need to to that if you plug an external graphics card in), its more the card maker than anything that causes the problem, for example IntelExtreme, or SIS chipsets (well...most of them) are dismaly slow (in Intels case I think the Extreme relates to how slow they are or something) even my cheapo 2.6ghz Celeron laptop can run UT2004 just fine for network combat on its built in GFX card, but then thats an ATI card, so it does actualy make a decent job of acceleration, basicaly, if it doesn`t say ATI or Nvidia as the chipset (you can get these from all different kinds of makers btw) then it`s probably going to be dire (there are exceptions, but not many), just make sure you don`t get conned with an older card they are clearing out.



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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 4th Jan 2006 10:06
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My old 1Ghz Supermicro mobo had onboard graphics... It only ever got turned on once when I wanted to see how "good" its 3D Mark was. It only managed about a third of the tests in 2001 and got a stunning 801 points! That compared to my Geforce 2 GTS getting about 3400.

I've only ever found one computer that had onboard graphics and no AGP, but then again I have avoided onboard graphics like the plague.

Sometimes you dont have to turn off the onboard - the motherboard will detect a card in the AGP and turn it off for you. I tend to find it makes life easier if you tell computers what to do rather than let them try to figure it out themselves though


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Me!
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Posted: 4th Jan 2006 12:41
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yeah! try putting a PCI card on a mobo that has a AGP slot but uses onboard GFX, I rescued a friend who tried to do that, system wouldn`t boot, just beeped all the time had to install the driver under onboard, then disable the onboard and turn the slot down to no AGP appature mem, then reboot and manualy find the drivers under win98 (which insisted they where not compatable), then reboot and (finaly) it worked, how the hell is the average user supposed to work that lot out though?.



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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 4th Jan 2006 12:49
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@Me! I like your sig

I also agree that when Windows breaks only Über geeks can fix them


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Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 4th Jan 2006 16:15
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Sorry but even "good" intergrated graphics chips suck compared to dedicated nvidia, ati or matrox cards


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Torsten Sorensen
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Posted: 5th Jan 2006 00:07
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What would be a good choice for a 128 mb graphics card for Celeron (and above sys specs)?

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Sephnroth
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Posted: 5th Jan 2006 01:07
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if you are on a tight budget and cant get the latest power cards I dont think you could go much wrong with an radeon 9600. get the saphhire 256meg version, Im using it right now and im pretty sure i saw it online for around 50-60 quid - absolute bargin. I run all the latest games (hl2, doom3, quake4, thief3 (ok not so latest there)) and prince of persia etc in nice resolutions and get fine frame rates. Sure, im not winning any benchmark competitions, but it runs everything i want to play beyond fine and has nice shader support.


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Torsten Sorensen
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Posted: 5th Jan 2006 04:00
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Ok, thanks for that. Found one on amazon for $89.95. Do you know if it runs on celeron, because right now I'm too lazy to look.

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Sephnroth
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Posted: 5th Jan 2006 04:10
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yes, the processor will not effect your ability to use the card What you MUST check though (and i cant tell for you) is what type of extension sockets your motherboard has. If it has AGP then you will want to buy an AGP version of the radeon 9600. However, the agp version will be usless to you if you dont have an AGP socket to put it in - you will need a PCI version in that case. Im doubting your system has pci-e, but theres no version of the 9600 which uses pci-e anyway

You will need to look at the motherboard manual to find out what sockets you have, or at the board itself. Traditionally, a pci socket is white and agp is brown or black. But not all boards follow that rule at all so if you arnt sure what one looks like ask someone who would know to help you decide what type of card you need


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Torsten Sorensen
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Posted: 5th Jan 2006 04:59 Edited at: 5th Jan 2006 05:01
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Yes, I have regular pci slots on my horrible pc. I'm...slowly making it better...sound cards...ram chips....video cards...flat panel monitors. I should just get another computer, and add what I've bought so far. Gotta get a Dell XPS, or Alienware. Help me with a decision..?

Edit....
Quote: "Shsh, you're not supposed to mention that game. "

Why?

Thanks,
Torsten

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John H
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Posted: 5th Jan 2006 05:50
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I suggest you build your own PC...I build mine for about 900 bucks...

ThermalTake XASER Armor Series Full Tower Case (4 fans)
eVGA geForce 6800GS 256MB SLI Card
2GB of Corsair 184-PIN DDR-400 RAM
ASUS A8N-SLI Premium Mobo
Athlon 64bit 3000+ Socket 939 Processor
NeoPower 480w PSU
120gig HD and 52x CD/RW From my old HP
Integrated Sound (Realtek 97 or something)

Runs games smoothly...get 60fps with Graphic settings all the way up in WoW, even in major cities and with tons of addons

Building your own is the way to go, its really easy and a lot of fun. Seperates the men from the boys in the PC Department You kind of have a bond to a PC you built...like a child only...more useful


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re faze
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Posted: 5th Jan 2006 07:21
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i have a pci card and it works very well.
I had an agp nvidia something but it fit in my case terribly and caused a short once so i dumped it and just got a pci card of better quality.

is pci-E a seperate slot or is it a pci slot with an extra pwr cable?

Dont code slowly be SWIFT about it!
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Andy
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Posted: 5th Jan 2006 08:28
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As for integrated graphics and the quality of such designs, they usually don't have dedicated memory, so they 'share' memory with the PC(UMA), which means that access to memory slows down the card.

Some integrated graphics solutions have dedicated memory, but they are hard to come by and in little demand.

It's true that most mainboards with integrated graphics lack the AGP port, but that is by design as most of these boards were meant to be used in office equipment, terminals etc where cost is an issue and expansion isn't. No need to enable life-time expansion as the owner will either not need it or simply just bin the board anyway.

I did see an engineering sample with an onboard Radeon 9800 Pro and 256 megabytes of dedicated memory. It didn't have an AGP port, was hideously expensive and the company eventually binned it, but it actually performed quite nicely and was outright beautiful(silver and lavender ... you had to be there!)

Although a new graphicscard is an option, I'd recommend that you invest in a new quality mainboard and a new quality graphicscard. Add to that new quality mwmory and you'll be set. It'll cost more, but you gain longevity as GPU power seems more important than CPU power today.


Andy
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 5th Jan 2006 09:32
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Quote: "Yes, I have regular pci slots on my horrible pc. I'm...slowly making it better...sound cards...ram chips....video cards...flat panel monitors. I should just get another computer, and add what I've bought so far. Gotta get a Dell XPS, or Alienware. Help me with a decision..?"


If you only have PCI slots then the first thing to do before buying a graphic card is to buy a new motherboard with integrated graphics. It will need integrated graphics because you can't afford both motherboard, and graphic card at the same time. Then wait until you can afford the AGP/PCI-E graphic card.

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