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Geek Culture / I think there should be dark pascal!

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Computer Nerd
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Posted: 16th Jan 2006 19:30
I'm trying to start learning Pascal and wouldn't it rock if the guys at TGC made Dark Pascal? Clickteam is going places with Java and TGc guys with BASIC so maybe I should make a Pascal language? Patient pending just kidding. How about other languages I know you guys did C++ but Java maybe to beat Clickteam yet again as being the bestest ever game maker guys? Or any other languages like Perl?

Game Developer - The Remake of JonoGame 2d
Make platform games, rpg games, arcade games, and more
I have no affiliation with Shark Basic but I think it's neat!
Bush Baby
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Posted: 16th Jan 2006 20:08
Have you seen the Click Team's "Jamagic" ?
It fricking sucks! It's 3D engine is quite horrible, and they tryed to merge Java with HTML, which equals poopy.
TGC already has Click Team beat by a long shot, I used to be a Click Team fan boy, not anymore.


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Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 16th Jan 2006 20:46
sorry but pascal would not suit this kind of software - basic is perfect for it, unless you want to go the whole hog and use C++ or similar. And yeah, Jamagic absolutely sucks, which is a shame


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hyrichter
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Posted: 16th Jan 2006 20:54
Microman once asked TGC if he could conver the DGDK headers to work with Delphi. I don't know what's happened with that, but it would be cool if we had DBP for Delphi. Delphi rocks.

Toby Quan
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Posted: 17th Jan 2006 14:40
What about a Dark COBOL as well? And then a Dark FORTRAN?
Van B
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Posted: 17th Jan 2006 15:15
How often do you hear the words, ''come look at my new Delphi game''?

Pascal and Delphi are not ideal languages for games.

Java is barely even a language.


Van-B

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hyrichter
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Posted: 17th Jan 2006 15:42
I agree Van B that Java is barely a language, but can you explain why Delphi isn't ideal for a game?

Delphi is every bit as good as c++. It's just that there aren't as many resources about game making with it plus the fact that the DirectX SDK is developed by Microsoft and the documentation examples, etc. are for c++. There are components available like DelphiX that make it easier to use DX with Delphi, but I've never tried them myself. I'm still having too much fun with DBP.

Just ask empty about Delphi. I understand most of PlayBasic is written in Delphi.

OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 17th Jan 2006 15:56
I believe Pascal, and Delphi are rather slow - whilst perfect for anything that doesn't require speed, its doubtful that you could get anything fast enough for a decent 3D game.

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Computer Nerd
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Posted: 17th Jan 2006 15:59
Clickteam = worst game makers ever done
The Game Creators = best game makers ever done
I think when my game maker's done it won't be as good as The Games Factory at first but when it's upgraded to beta, then gamma, and omega and finally v1.0 it will be one of the greatest 2d game makers out!

Game Developer - The Remake of JonoGame 2d
Make platform games, rpg games, arcade games, and more
I have no affiliation with Shark Basic but I think it's neat!
Van B
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Posted: 17th Jan 2006 15:59
Yup, but that's the thing. Delphi is really a grown-up Pascal, and Pascal is great for things like tokenising, string handling etc etc - making it a great language to write an OS or even a language in, because it's designed to parse.

It's more about the language structure that draws it back I think. If we did'nt have these different types of language, everything would be written in C++ and would royally suck. Delphi is a great language for applications, but not great for the 'single-minded' game engine. It would be decent for writing an RPG though.


Van-B

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hyrichter
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Posted: 17th Jan 2006 16:02
Quote: " I believe Pascal, and Delphi are rather slow"

I don't know about traditional pascal, but Delphi is extremely optimized and fast. To quote empty:
Quote: "No Delphi is a variant of Object Pascal. It's probably easier to understand for Basic users than C or C++ (and I'd say even C#) cause modern Basic languages adopted a lot of elements and keywords from Pascal.
Delphi is RAD tool similar to VB and the compiler produces extremely optimised machine code. So the executables are stupendous fast."


Peter H
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Posted: 17th Jan 2006 16:03
Quote: "Java is barely even a language."

unfortunately i have to use java in my CS2 class

"We make the worst games in the universe..."
Computer Nerd
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Posted: 17th Jan 2006 19:44
Anyone try free pascal it's um free .

http://www.freepascal.org If that's the wrong site I'm mortally sorry.

Hey doods, check out Game Developer's official page at http://gamedeveloper1.tripod.com/. Visit my work in progress thread too. Game Developer, make your own 2d games and have fun doing it.
Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 17th Jan 2006 21:10
"Clickteam = worst game makers ever done
The Game Creators = best game makers ever done"

Neither of those is true. They both have made good and bad products. Clickteam's TGF/MMF/C&C is excellent, Jamagic isn't. TGCs DBP/FPSC are excellent, t3dgm isn't.


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Bush Baby
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Posted: 17th Jan 2006 22:06
Agreed.

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PowerSoft
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Posted: 17th Jan 2006 22:10
What about DarkASM ?

Computer Nerd
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Posted: 18th Jan 2006 23:38 Edited at: 19th Jan 2006 00:07
Yeah but it would be high level and not as fast as Win32 ASM. I'm trying to learn it but Game Developer takes most of time so does posting on this forum.

Dood.

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Flindiana Jones
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Posted: 19th Jan 2006 20:05
What about Dark B?
Or Dark Python?
Or Dark Simula 67?
Or Dark Smalltalk?

John Y
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Posted: 19th Jan 2006 20:45
Quote: "Java is barely even a language."


Wow, watch your language! Go and wash your mouth out with soap!

Java is a nice language, I would take it over anything but C#, then again they are pretty much the same.

The choice comes down to object orientation, although very powerful, it is hard to understand and use correctly. Basic is one of the few languages that can work quite nicely without it, and also the fact it's close(ish) to English.

empty
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Posted: 19th Jan 2006 23:05 Edited at: 19th Jan 2006 23:18
Sigh.

Quote: "How often do you hear the words, ''come look at my new Delphi game''?"

Almost as often as I hear 'come look at my new VB game'. "Almost" because VB is far more popular. If Dark Basic or Blitz didn't exist, there'd be very few games written in Basic. And I believe the majority of them in QuickBasic or QBasic.


Quote: "Pascal and Delphi are not ideal languages for games."

And Basic is ideal?
Something like Dark Pascal would be entirely possible (that is, a 3D engine with an underlying Pascal language, rather than Basic). In fact, I know quite a few game scripting engines that adopted a large amount of Pascal elements. But the point is, why is Dark Basic, Dark BASIC? Because the Basic language is the selling point here. Basic is said to be one of the easiest programming language to learn and it probably is. A Pascal variant aimed at game development wouldn't need all the libraries (command sets) that other Pascal compilers have, just like DarkBasic or even Blitz doesn't have all the things that other compilers have which are geared towards app development.


Quote: "I believe Pascal, and Delphi are rather slow - whilst perfect for anything that doesn't require speed, its doubtful that you could get anything fast enough for a decent 3D game."

Besides the fact that today's Pascal compilers as well as Delphi aren't rather slow (quite the opposite, actually), and surely fast enough for a decent 3D game, the point of the suggestion was to exchange the Basic language of DB with Pascal. Seeing that the DB's 3D engine wasn't written in Basic, it wouldn't matter if Pascal wasn't fast enough for a 3D game.

As much as I like the idea, from an economical point of view Dark Pascal wouldn't make a lot sense IMO. A Delphi adaption of DGDK, however, would make a lot more sense, but would require to convert the static libraries back to dynamic libraries because Delphi cannot link MS-compatible lib files. A header translation alone will not do.

MikeS
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Posted: 24th Jan 2006 03:46
http://www.delphigamer.com/

This site has it all, nuff said really from raytracers, applications, to 3D engines and games. Any language these days is able to make games. Even freebasic could be a great language if it had the development community and resources availiable. As far as I'm concerned though, Delphi/Pascal is more than able to make games, it's syntax is nice(it's a learning language after all), and it's extremely fast(inline asm if you think it's still too slow).



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Phaelax
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Posted: 24th Jan 2006 05:16
Quote: "Java is barely even a language."


I resent that! Though not a prime candidate for games, Doom was ported to java last year. There's also the OGL wrappers for java.


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JoelJ
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Posted: 24th Jan 2006 06:06
Java has it's place, look at your cell phone for example

Van B
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Posted: 24th Jan 2006 11:53
Quote: "Almost as often as I hear 'come look at my new VB game'."


Erm, behave
Do a google search, Delphi game returns 2.5million, Visual Basic game return 11.5million.

Delphi is not widely used for games compared to other languages, I'm not saying Basic is ideal, I'm saying Delphi and Pascal would require a lot more in-depth coding. We are all hobbyists pretty much, coding is supposed to be fun, and Basic is a fun language to code in. I never want to learn ASM, when you start getting involved in that complex stuff it stops being a fun hobby and turns into more like a job.

To be honest it's been years since I used Pascal, Delphi might be much better, but when I was looking for a language to easily write games in, Delphi was never a candidate.

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empty
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Posted: 24th Jan 2006 16:48
Quote: "Erm, behave"

Never.

Quote: "Do a google search, Delphi game returns 2.5million, Visual Basic game return 11.5million"

Although a google search won't really tell us anything, seeing that VB outsells Delphi at least 10 times, the numbers for Delphi games are pretty high compared to VB.


Quote: "Delphi is not widely used for games compared to other languages, I'm not saying Basic is ideal, I'm saying Delphi and Pascal would require a lot more in-depth coding [...] To be honest it's been years since I used Pascal, Delphi might be much better, but when I was looking for a language to easily write games in, Delphi was never a candidate."

But that was NOT the point of the thread. The point was to use a Pascal like language for a product that is similar to DB pro. So a DarkBasic Pro without the Basic but Pascal instead. Saying "Pascal is too slow" (compared to what? Basic? And it would depend on the compiler, wouldn't it?), or "Pascal is great for tokenizing or string handling" (that depends on the libraries you use) is completely irrelevant. Vanilla Basic isn't ideal for games either.
The only valid argument is: which of the two languages is easier to get the hang on. And apperantly that's Basic for most people. So it makes sense to use that language for a product like DB.

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