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Geek Culture / What do you think is the best laptop?

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HWT
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2006 12:35
Hi there,
I'm having great trouble deciding which laptop is best. I've tried several search engines like pricerunner.co.uk but I just can't decide.

I've narrowed it down to Toshiba Satellite, Acer Travelmate or IBM Thinkpad. I'm looking for power but long battery life too - mainly storage capabilities and perhaps wireless LAN technology.

Can anyone please help me?

Thanks

HelloWorld Tommorrow
Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2006 12:41
iBooks (or anything Mac based).

Depends what you want to do on them.

If you're doing web stuff and office (very little gaming), then get an iBook (or Powerbook/MacBook PRo if you can afford it).

I often work from home. I use my laptop from 9am to about 2-3 in the afternoon running on battery only. This is with Text Wrangler, Firefox, iTunes and Dreamweaver all open.

The hard disk is small - but that can be solved using an external USB2.0 caddy + 2.5" Hard disk (up to about 120Gb now I think).

The iBook comes with WiFi, great battery, the most stable OS you can get for home users and I THINK it also has some kind of hard disk saving shock proof technology... Not sure though.

Its crap for games though... Not many games work on the Mac. Although I recently found out that Diablo 2 works on it - must get that installed!!!

HWT
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2006 12:53 Edited at: 23rd Jan 2006 13:00
Plus, since I'm not that good with hardware, what's the difference between pentium, celeron M/D etc... and centrino - which is better? And how about AMD?

Also, in terms of graphics cards, Acers seem the best buy (with ATI Radeon 9000) although Toshiba Satellites provide higher processing speed but Trident CyberALADDiN-T or Intel 852GME for graphics cards - is that good?

HelloWorld Tommorrow
Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2006 13:14
Libretto 100CT upgraded Or a powerbook pro, similar technology


Preorder EA here:http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=67575&b=8&p=0
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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2006 14:37
@HWT: What exactly do you want to do with the laptop as that determines what type to get... Hence farmers using tractors not Ferrari's...

Oddmind
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2006 15:39
Radeon 9000 should cost you about 40 bucks nowadays. get an x1800 gt so you wont find yourself in this same situation in a year.

formerly KrazyJimmy
Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2006 17:02
@OddMind - I think he is referring to a laptop. Do they even do the x1800gt for laptops yet? Even so - you cant upgrade that bit of a laptop.

Thats the other question - why do you want a laptop? Are you planning on working on the move?

Codelike
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2006 17:45 Edited at: 23rd Jan 2006 18:00
I was going to recommend mine, 'til I saw your requirements!

It'd depend what you want to do with it. I'd stick with a Windows-based machine, if you want to use the greatest choice of software.

If you look at the highest-spec processors:
AMD = faster & more optimised. Gamers prefer these.
Intel = slower but more powerful. 3D artists prefer these.

If you just want it for Office, email, surfing, coding & music (playing & editing) then you won't need a particularly high set of specifications, at all. Indeed, all of these will comfortably run on a computer that's below the average retailer's 'cheapest & least specified machine', these days.

If, on the other hand, you want to run a lot of 3D graphics-based (games, MSFS, 3DS, Maya etc.) software, then the higher the spec, the better. If these are important to you, look to benchmark (3dmark05 etc.) the machine before you buy it.

Getting a good amount of RAM is probably of more importance, to me, these days, than a particularly fast processor. Though not laptop-specific, I've found that a good graphics card & plenty of memory can make more difference than a faster processor, in general use.

n.b. Wifi is going to be considered as an intermediate technology. It's useful if you want to use the networked laptop, wirelessly, round the house, or in the garden. However, WiMax will be available in the next couple of years & this will allow you to use your laptop in pretty much any urban area. To me, Wifi, built-in, would not be vital, the USB dongle can be bought separately for less than £20, if need be.

Hope this helps.

I have an XP3000+, 1.5gb DDR333, a 6600GT and I'm programming 3k text-based exe's?!
Killswitch
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2006 18:26
I'm typing this message on a toshiba Satellite Pro . They're really sweet machines - so long as you upgrade the RAM to at least 512 MB

~Heed my word hobags: Jism~
Dazzag
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2006 19:37 Edited at: 23rd Jan 2006 19:38
In terms of absolute power then surely the Dell XPS M170 (6800 Ultra mobile card) takes the buscuit. Not sure on battery life as they have now moved the XPS over to the far superior Pentium M processors (times Ghz by 1.5 generally, so about 3.5Ghz - at least it was when I bought about 1.5 years ago) which should last longer than the old ones (lucky to get an hour out of them). And you have to love the screen (17" 1920x1200). Put it this way, I have an older Dell 8600, which is similar specs, but smaller screen (15.4" 1920x1200), slightly slower CPU, and lower graphics card (9600Pro Turbo), but it still manages to play Doom 3 perfectly well at 1200x800, and kicks out a decent 4-5 hour battery life doing general wireless web browsing etc (haven't even tried with a game like Doom 3 just on batteries).

Anyhows, look at this website for advise. Mainly because there are a lot less fanboys on there. Totally invaluable when I was looking for a laptop:-
http://www.whatlaptop.co.uk/Forums/Default.aspx

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
HWT
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Posted: 24th Jan 2006 11:18 Edited at: 24th Jan 2006 11:28
I want something for work and for gaming but more for gaming since my work only consists of storing reports and essays and stuff. I would be good if I had a wireless LAN since I'm studying BSc. Medical and Applied Biotech so I need to be able to research stuff on the internet (like diseases, their known cures etc...).

I've tried searching websites but that gets me no where since they just don't give me enough consumer reviews (I don't really trust the company reviews of their own product - I need to no the bad side too).

So far I've narrowed it down to Acer Travelmate 2702 LCI and the Toshiba Satellite A25-S2792 - if anybody knows about these laptops, please post your reviews on this subject (or just e-mail them to me).

Also, in terms of compatibility AND speed (more on the former) for graphics cards are the ATI chipsets or Intel based chipsets better?

And, are intergrated sound cards any good nowadays?

Thanks for the help

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I DON'T want a laptop that focuses on 1 type of feature primarily. E.g. Sony VAIO T series tends to compromise power for size and weight - this is just what I DON'T want (although lugging around a 5 kg laptop - if one exists - isn't for me either). I favour the Toshiba series but then there's Acer with similar capabilities - this is my current dilemma ;(

HelloWorld Tommorrow
Dazzag
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Posted: 24th Jan 2006 19:45
Quote: "they just don't give me enough consumer reviews "
Look at the site I linked above. There is a forum dedicated to just reviews, and another that discusses all things laptop.

As to ATI or Intel based graphics, go for ATI. Proper graphics card as opposed to integrated garbage (Extreme 2 and all that). NVidia on the other hand is coming out with some great laptop cards now. I for example can play Doom 3 fine on my ATI 9600 Pro Turbo (128mb), but my friend's Acer (not intended as a games machine mind) would be luckily to run Quake 3 (really lucky) with it's Intel Extreme 2 integrated graphics chipset. Yuck.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 24th Jan 2006 23:20
Certainly worth looking at more Acer laptops - they are pretty good value really.

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HWT
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Posted: 25th Jan 2006 01:21 Edited at: 25th Jan 2006 02:10
I've narrowed it down to Acer or Toshiba already. The thing is that Acer provides me with graphics power and computer power in moderation but I just can't let go of the Toshiba that has more computer power and Intel (non-integrated chipsets) too. But in terms of graphics and computing separately which is better?

Note that I am looking for a computer that can handle BASIC (very BASIC) storage facilities but more so on the graphics and gaming side - between Acer and Toshiba which is better suited for my purpose (do you think)?

Also, I'm looking for something that is between 400 and 700 GBP - Acer 2702LCI and Toshiba Satellite A25 seem to fill those shoes but I can't find them on the market just yet so the search continues...

(Please note that when I say "Acer" I mean all Travelmates above the 2700 series. And when I mentioned "Toshiba" I meant Toshiba Satellites).

Another question on my mind is pricing. How come a Fujitsu Siemens laptop can be 800 GBP but with much less features than an Acer Travelmate - has it got to do with durability e.g. cheaper substitutes for Hard drives or RAM chips etc... with Acer?

And is (or I should say "is/was") the buzz about wireless LAN (not bluetooth) reall worth the hype? I mean - you can't use it anywhere in the world - can you?

Also, I've checked out that what-laptop.com website which is quite great but doesn't have Acer Travelmate 2702 reviews ;(

Thanks again for the wonderful help

HelloWorld Tommorrow
Dazzag
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Posted: 25th Jan 2006 09:18
My friends laptop is an Acer. Very nice it is. She used [href]www.acernotebooks.co.uk[/href] which were very good and did 0% finance at the time

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Dazzag
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Posted: 25th Jan 2006 09:33
Just checked out the Acer 2702LCI. Good deal for the price. Would be worried about battery life though. Wouldn't expect much more than an hour or so with a 3Ghz CPU. Standard Pentium 4s just aren't up for it really. Graphics card will be alright being an ATI. I wouldn't bother with the Toshiba though. Slower CPU with naff graphics basically. And you really want the graphics as good as possible as this is one area you aren't upgrading (in 99.9% of cases).

If you want decent power with a good battery life (between a P4 and a Centrino), then I would look into AMD64 laptops. Stuff intel (unless it's a Centrino). Acer Ferrari is a nice effort I thought at the time, although cheaper PCs with the same specs are out there. Nice looking though.

If you can stretch to it try looking at [href]www.ajp.co.uk[/href] or [href]www.rockdirect.co.uk[/href]. For a little more (about £900) you can get a lot better gaming performance. There is an AJP for about that price that has an ATI X700 in it. Should kick a**e compared to the two above. Also look at Dell outlet (on dell site under refurbished desktops). Keep your eye on it like a hawk and every now again (sometimes only once every few days) a gem falls through (probably entered by a YTS bloke) at about half price. Also when they say refurbished they mean that the person who ordered it cancelled the order or sent it back straight away. They then do a QA check on it, rebuild it to make sure ok, and package back up. You then get it straight away (don't have to make up your request). Downside is you cannot change the specs. I bought a Dell 8600 with 15.4" 1920x1200 60gb 2Ghz Centrino (easily 3Ghz equivelent) and ATI 9600Pro Turbo with Win XP Pro, 1gb RAM, and a case for about £900 (about £1700 at the time). Sorted. Just have to be patient, and add to basket as soon as you see a bargain (they go really quickly).

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
HWT
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Posted: 25th Jan 2006 12:47 Edited at: 25th Jan 2006 13:02
Yes - thanks for all the advice. I think I will have to keep looking amongst the Acers.

How about IBM or HP? There's a lot of advertising for those 2 but I heard they aren't worth the excitement since they don't deliver what you expect.

EDIT: And what's the difference (I mean based on consumer experience only since I've already seen the specs and stuff) between Aspire and Ferrari - the acerlaptops.co.uk website says one's for home and gaming and the other's for power and gaming - "power"? Does that mean I'll be getting more battery life or more processing power and less battery life? Any thoughts anybody?

As advised I've given up on Toshiba and going only with Acer. As I understand it, Travelmates are mainly for Business people and not being one of them I think Ferraris or Aspires will suit me best - does anyone disagree? If so, please tell me why (advantages/disadvantages of Aspires/Ferraris/Travelmates). Thanks

Finally, regarding Pentium and AMD processors; my aunty bought AMD processor and says it's not so good - anyone have ideas?

P.S. Sorry if I forgot to mention this but battery life is very important to me (more so than power or graphics). In this case?

HelloWorld Tommorrow
HWT
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Posted: 25th Jan 2006 22:39
Regarding graphics cards - if I buy a laptop with a cheap Intel integrated but can I upgrade it to a better Radeon 9000 or x800 or Voodoo 5 or something else?

HelloWorld Tommorrow
Les Horribres
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Posted: 25th Jan 2006 23:14
Acer typically has small batterys anyways, so that will be a problem. Take a look at the specs, most of the time they are 4 cell, sometimes 8 cell.

Quote: "Regarding graphics cards - if I buy a laptop with a cheap Intel integrated but can I upgrade it to a better Radeon 9000 or x800 or Voodoo 5 or something else?"

It also depends on the MB i think... and with the decreasing size of laptops, it may not fit, you also have to worry about the fans and all. End Run, just get a custom config.

HP is good to me. Cheap, affordable, but are they good? No, but they work. My R4000 has a battery life of 6hours, with a Radeon Xpress, but I lack in Ram and CPU, not that it couldn't upgrade to it, but I was on a budget, and the upgrade was more expensive at the time.

Merranvo, The Cool One
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HWT
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Posted: 25th Jan 2006 23:29
All in all, for someone like me who is short on budget (between 400 to 600 pounds) and who can't get a custom configuration and must buy from UK stores and who loves to play and make games and who doesn't travel that much and requires a laptop for work such as writing reports and essays (occasionally for running Biomed software such as Physio EX cd roms and such things which are usually fully 95/98/xp compatible), which BRAND would be the best suited? (By brand I mean specific brand like Acer ASPIRE or Toshiba Satellite).

HelloWorld Tommorrow
Les Horribres
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Posted: 25th Jan 2006 23:45
Compaq...

Dell = Expensive. It may have changed last I checked, but to upgrade the closest book to a good 1.8GHz with a good 128MB card raised the price well within the 1200, Compaq did the same but at 850 (apox).

Merranvo, The Cool One
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Support Merra XJ9, cause the name is cooler.
Codelike
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Posted: 26th Jan 2006 00:03 Edited at: 26th Jan 2006 00:06
Soundcards:

Integrated audio: Ok, if you're only listening & using headphones/external speakers. I wouldn't rely on them for good listening, though.

If you need to do mobile audio editing, you'd be better off using a USB interface. You'll get a lot of 'hiss', otherwise. For an audio beginner, you could look at one of these:

http://www.maudio.co.uk/index.php?do=products.list&ID=mobileinterfaces

I have an XP3000+, 1.5gb DDR333, a 6600GT and I'm programming 3k text-based exe's?!
Aoneweb
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Posted: 26th Jan 2006 00:06
Don't go for Toshiba, They have had my laptop longer than me, they say they fix it, send it back, and it's still not working right, and they never tell you what they have fixed.
One time I screemed at them, I wanted to know what work was carried out, they told me they updated the bios, I sent it to them coz it was overheating and shutting down, and they updated the bios.
I will never buy a Toshiba again.
My wife has a HP with a AMD64, and this machine flies, Halflife 2, doom 3 and far cry are sooooo smothe, but she wont give it to me, I told her she could have my Toshiba, I meen Trash-iba.


HWT
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Posted: 26th Jan 2006 19:01
Also, what should I look out for?

I mean, long time ago, when I didn't even know computers, I bought this machine I'm working on.

It was top-notch at the time but had an integrated graphics card (which I think many of you know is an endless bummer).

Anyway, now I regret that decision and curse my lack of knowledge.

Is there something like that I should look out for (not restricted to graphic cards though)?

HelloWorld Tommorrow
Darkbasic MADPSP
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Posted: 26th Jan 2006 21:42
alienware laptop or the dell xps soming laptop

where i went on holiday to
www.portaventura.es and also http://themepark.nl/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB7&Number=661483&page=0&fpart=all
Becky
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Posted: 26th Jan 2006 22:16
Quote: "I'm having great trouble deciding which laptop is best. "

Apple G3 Clamshell. It's so cute! Unfortunately it was gutless even in the day.

I like my sisters' Acer, it has an excellent graphics chip, a very quick to refresh screen, and the wireless is almost as powerful as my desktop - in my longue two laptops struggle to see our own network, but my sisters Acer can see 3 and doesnt drop at all.
Dazzag
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Posted: 26th Jan 2006 23:22
Quote: "if I buy a laptop with a cheap Intel integrated but can I upgrade it to a better Radeon 9000 or x800 or Voodoo 5 or something else?"
Nope nope and more nope. They don't take standard video cards. Infact they 99.9% of the time don't take anything other than what comes in the laptop when you bought it. The 0.1% goes to v.rare laptops that can upgrade (to about 1 single specific card from the same company in the future - See Dell) and are normally extremely powerful (ie. expensive). About the only things you can upgrade easilyish are the memory (v. easy, is normally just a panel on the bottom), the hard drive (more complicated going under the keyboard normally - I've done it with medium hassle- or with an external drive), and *perhaps* the CPU. So in other words go for the max that you can afford otherwise you will probably regret it later (ie. much sooner than with a desktop).

Look thoroughly through that forum I posted, I looked through there and asked questions for about 3 months before getting a laptop. And even though I've owned loads of PCs over the years (as it happens I bought another one today - woop) I realised I didn't really have the foggiest. I thought you could just buy another graphics card to upgrade. Apparently (1.5 years ago when I bought my current laptop) PCI Express was supposed to change all this and allow (at least minimal) upgraded, but was only on the most expensive laptops (Dell XPS at about £2000) and only for one (slightly better) card in the future. Probably size and heat issues. Cannot design the space for the hardware when you don't know the size, shape, and heat levels of future cards. Not like desktops with standard sized slots and lots of space for cooling/ expansion.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
HWT
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Posted: 26th Jan 2006 23:39
Quote: "I like my sisters' Acer"

Which brand does your sister own?

Quote: "I looked through there and asked questions for about 3 months before getting a laptop"

Thanks for the advice but you see, my brothers are planning to get a laptop for my birthday which is coming up pretty soon so I don't have a long time.

All I'm looking for is some laptop that can last long and one that won't make me regret my decision *too* soon.

HelloWorld Tommorrow
Becky
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Posted: 27th Jan 2006 00:15
Quote: "Quote: "I like my sisters' Acer"
Which brand does your sister own?"

Acer.
Dazzag
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Posted: 27th Jan 2006 01:27
Then spend a *lot*. Take it for granted that the speed you get when you get it is basically all you are even going to get out of it. Not counting improvements to software (eg. drivers) and okish improvements with memory (video card is by far the biggest thing with games). In fact chuck your own money in to bump things up a bit.

Oh, and [href]www.ajp.co.uk[/href] machines were impressive at the time. As fast as Rockdirect and Voodoo efforts (plus numerous other exotica) and based on the same chassis as the Alienware Area 51 (which was slower than the rest at the time - good old fanboys overlooking the slow RAM and only looking at the eyes on the front ) at the time, but cheaper than the rest (still a *lot*).

Still think keeping your eye on the Dell Outlet can be the biggest money saver for a decent machine though, if you have the time. Otherwise expect to shell out at least £1500 to avoid dissapointment. £1000 would probably keep you feeling ok, but any less starts losing out big style. The Outlet though can easily shave £500 if you are patient. Plus their screens are fantastic (1920x1200 in bed at the moment )

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
HWT
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Posted: 27th Jan 2006 11:00
Quote: "Quote: "I like my sisters' Acer"
Which brand does your sister own?
Acer."


I meant which model - Aspire, Ferrari, Travelmate and which serial number like 2702 LCI or something?

To: Dazzag: In your opinion, do you think those laptops are durable? I mean as in battery life and durability (ability to use for a long time without replacement) and low charge hours? Can I use it at a stretch and not expect any errors (or few errors)?

HelloWorld Tommorrow
Becky
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Posted: 27th Jan 2006 16:49
Quote: "I meant which model"

I see her on Monday, i'll ask.
Dazzag
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Posted: 28th Jan 2006 01:09
In my experience laptops are more durable than desktops. This is mainly based on problems ranging between obvious computer crashes (knackered hard drives), to unknown BSOD type freezes, on various machines. The laptops I've used seem better, and tend to go wrong on the smaller things, such as a keyboard problem (which is cheap and easy to fix). Dunno why, but if I were to guess then I would say it's because the components are all shoved into really tight spaces, and don't have much room to move about a bit, or gather dust etc. Plus they are probably tested to a higher standard to withstand heat, collision etc than a desktop. Mainly because they are mobile, but also because a desktop can be easier fixed by replacement parts, whereas a laptop is much harder. And the home user is *much* more likely to be able to fix a desktop hardware problem than a laptop (not counting how hard it is to source laptop parts cheaply).

Personally my old HP was very well put together (but it was a *very* expensive top end business model), my current Dell is pretty good too (plus we have loads in work that all do well), and the couple of Acers I've seen look decently built. The only experience I've had with the Toshibas was in a shop. Not bad, but they didn't look quite as well put together as the Acers, which looked that little bit more solid, if you see what I mean.

Remember the graphics card comment though. If you get a Tosh or an Acer, then make sure they don't have integrated graphics. And personally I would consider the Acer Ferrari. I haven't seen the latest model, but I almost bought one when I got this Dell. Wasn't quite as good value though (and slower). Was an amazing deal off the outlet. Ferrari also looks really nice.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Dazzag
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Posted: 28th Jan 2006 01:18
Out of interest, that forum always loved Rockdirect. Quality products. This caught my eye before going to sleep. Decent price. Decent enough spec (should easily play Doom 3 to get a good idea), and is a Centrino, so great battery life (and nice internal wireless). 1.8Ghz should be around 2.7ghz equivelent on a standard P4. Not exact, but the 1.5x ratio is normally a good guide.

http://www.rockdirect.com/rockshop/shophome.php?itemprcd=PTI-1.8

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Dazzag
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Posted: 28th Jan 2006 01:25 Edited at: 28th Jan 2006 01:25
Quote: "but to upgrade the closest book to a good 1.8GHz with a good 128MB card raised the price well within the 1200"
Look at the outlet as I said. I bought a 2Ghz Centrino 128mb ATI 9600Pro Turbo (fastest at the time) machine with 1gb of RAM, DVD-RW, 60Gb HD, XP Pro, and 1920x1200 Widescreen display (and they chucked in a leather case), for £912 all in (VAT, delivery etc) from the Outlet about 1.5 years ago. Had to keep your eye on it though (prices fluctuate wildly between identical machines, and really good bargains go in seconds). Nothing wrong with it, as Outlet stuff is just double checked cancelled orders in the main (or rejections that are then fixed up). Mine looked like it hadn't even be out of the box, so I guess cancellation.

Think I worked out it would have cost me around £1700-1800 from the main Dell site at the time, depending on the changing offers.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
HWT
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Posted: 28th Jan 2006 10:21
Thank you all for your help. I think I'll be getting Acer Ferrari or Aspire.

Becky, I'll be waiting for your reply - thanks.

HelloWorld Tommorrow
Dazzag
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Posted: 28th Jan 2006 13:56
Good choice. Ferrari is well nice, and isn't stupidly priced. Did you see that Rockdirect one I linked though? Probably about £400 cheaper, and should do you fine (and a decent video performance). That is to keep it around the £700 mark.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Les Horribres
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Location: My Name is... Merry
Posted: 28th Jan 2006 16:10
Just remember that acer has smaller batterys.
Last I checked, it was 4cell or 6cell... don't know if you can upgrade that though.

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Dazzag
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Posted: 28th Jan 2006 19:27 Edited at: 28th Jan 2006 19:27
True, although my friend has a pretty compact Acer Centrino (TravelMate I believe), and it lasts a good 4-5 hours when just wirelessly browsing the web, writing documents, windows programming (eg. VB not graphic intensive DB) etc. Good enough for me.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
cheeseman
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Posted: 29th Jan 2006 00:44
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HWT
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Posted: 29th Jan 2006 09:09
Quote: "Just remember that acer has smaller batterys.
Last I checked, it was 4cell or 6cell... don't know if you can upgrade that though."

I know a travelmate with 8-cell Li-ion battery - is that good enough for about 4 hours?

Also, is it true that the large the battery, the more time it takes to charge or are the laptops resistors and stuff geared to take the right amount of energy quickly?

HelloWorld Tommorrow

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