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Geek Culture / How DO you prevent people copying your idea?

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HWT
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Posted: 24th Jan 2006 11:30
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Hi there

I know the obvious answer is "Copyright them" or "Get them published" but how DO you prevent people copying your game idea without having to spend so much money?

Any ideas?

Thanks

HelloWorld Tommorrow
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Van B
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Posted: 24th Jan 2006 11:37
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Considering that most publishers only publish recycled crud these days, I would'nt be too concearned about your original ideas.

Those ideas should be your own, don't share them unless you really have to.


Van-B

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Lukas W
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Posted: 24th Jan 2006 12:33
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yeah dont tell everyone your making a rpg. next thing you know there are 10 people posting about theirs.

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Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 24th Jan 2006 12:38
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copyrighting something is FREE. I don't think you mean copyright though I think you mean Patent. With copyright they could copy your idea but just cahnge the name / character etc. To get a patent is difficult and expensive though, as you have to prove that what you are doing is COMPLETELY unique.

If you seriously reckon you have a world shatteringly good idea, DON'T tell anybody about it until its 100% finished and ready or publishing, and make sure its the best it can be. Therefore if any clones DO come out, they won't be as good as yours. (IE True Crime / Getaway games will always sell less copies than GTA games because they aren't as good) To patent an idea for a game is close to impossible, and seen as anti competitive.

The trouble with trying to get published is that sometimes your game may be a great idea, but not 100% commercial quality. Most publishers will not publish it, but steal your idea if they like it, not pay you for it and pretend they already had something very similar in development anyway - and back that u with overpaid lawyers. The best route is often to get financial backing from somewhere non games related, and do it yourself.


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Tinkergirl
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Posted: 24th Jan 2006 12:43
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Most dev companies won't look at 'game ideas' because they're so scared of getting sued if they happen to have a game that's remotely similar in production. I.e. - if you send them a game idea where "there's a girl and she's got guns and she kills aliens!" - it's entirely possible they've already got a game in the works with that very same idea (even if her costume in yours was blue, and theirs was red). They won't look, because EVEN THOUGH they came up with it themselves, lawyers would try to make their life hell.

Send an envelope of 'game ideas' to a development company - and it'll probably get binned without even getting past the person who collects the mail. (Just, don't do it.)

Mind you - publishers are a different matter. Who know's what goes on in the mind of a publisher?
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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 24th Jan 2006 13:44
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You can't copyright an IDEA.

Kevin Picone
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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 24th Jan 2006 16:18 Edited at: 24th Jan 2006 16:18
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I personally consider it a compliment if someone uses my idea/code/[insert 'thing' here]


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soapyfish
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Posted: 24th Jan 2006 18:22
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Write the idea down, put it in an envelope and send it to YOURSELF. When it arrives through your letterbox DON'T open it, just put it somewhere safe. If you show someone the idea and they get rich off it then you can use the date stamped on the sealed envelope as proof you had the idea first.

Of course this would probably be quite easy to fake, so may not stand up in court. And you'd need proof that you showed someone your idea and probably proof that you told him or her they couldn't use it to get rich.

But these days alot of games sell on the hype created, not the idea behind them.

I AM A MORON
and won't change my sig until I get off my oversized behind and finish a project.
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Codelike
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Posted: 24th Jan 2006 18:33 Edited at: 24th Jan 2006 18:38
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Indeed, ideas can't be copyrighted. Blocks of program code can be copyrighted, though.

The simplest way to copyright a program code is the same method that other writers use, songwriters, for instance. Post a letter (by registered mail) to yourself with the work enclosed & once you get the letter back, keep it in a safe place, unopened. The date of registration is good in court, as the post office (Royal Mail, in the UK) keeps proof of the date posted, if it ever gets that far!

I, too, would consider it a compliment if someone ripped off a design of mine!

The best thing to do would be to come up with a completely original idea (or an extension/redevelopment of an old idea) & keep quiet about it! That way, you'll, at least, have a head-start over the competition. If you need to discuss your idea, publicly, then limit your discussion to only the section of your idea that you need help with - don't give it all away.

Good luck.

edit: Soapyfish, did I nick your idea or did you nick mine?
Maybe, great minds think alike.

I have an XP3000+, 1.5gb DDR333, a 6600GT and I'm programming 3k text-based exe's?!
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Jeku
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Posted: 24th Jan 2006 18:52
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Ideas are a dime a dozen. Storylines are rarely original, no matter how you work them.


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Manticore Night
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Posted: 24th Jan 2006 18:58
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Quote: "How DO you prevent people copying your idea?"
With a shotgun.

[center]It's amazing how much TV has raised us. (Bart Simpson)

He's back! With 20% less intelligence!
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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 24th Jan 2006 19:37
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Really stupid to "copyright" your idea, and it shouldn't even be something people need to worry about. You can't copyright creativity.

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re faze
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Posted: 25th Jan 2006 01:13
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yeah, If the idea is that great just do it first so people will know that you made it first

Dont code slowly be SWIFT about it!
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JoelJ
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Posted: 25th Jan 2006 04:45
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it's all about marketing...

you start to make it, get a nice community to build it up, make a lot of hype. it's all about hype.

in all honesty, in the end, it doesn't matter if you're the first, or the last. It all depends on if people know about it.

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 25th Jan 2006 04:59 Edited at: 25th Jan 2006 05:00
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How do you "build up a nice community" purly on an idea?

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Grog Grueslayer
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Posted: 25th Jan 2006 06:33
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There's nothing new under the sun.


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Phaelax
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Posted: 25th Jan 2006 14:47
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Here's what I do:

*emotionlessly polishes a barrel with person watching*


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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 25th Jan 2006 15:58
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"emotionlessly"?

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TKF15H
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Posted: 25th Jan 2006 16:14
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Simple: Do what everyone else does... copy older ideas. That way, if someone steals it, you won't lose much since it wasn't your idea in the first place.

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HWT
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Posted: 25th Jan 2006 16:29
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Quote: "Simple: Do what everyone else does... copy older ideas. That way, if someone steals it, you won't lose much since it wasn't your idea in the first place.
"

Unfortunately, I have a few original ideas for rpgs, fps, racing games etc... but don't have the graphics power to make them. Yes, I'm already working on them using dummy objects.

I'm worried more about if a games company makes the game with an idea that I came up with 3 years before they did!!!

HelloWorld Tommorrow
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JoelJ
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Posted: 25th Jan 2006 17:44
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Quote: " How do you "build up a nice community" purly on an idea?
"

i don't know, i never said "build up a nice community purly on an idea", as i recall:
Quote: "you start to make it, get a nice community to build it up, make a lot of hype."


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Peter H
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Posted: 25th Jan 2006 18:05
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Quote: "Unfortunately, I have a few original ideas for rpgs, fps, racing games etc..."

sorry, but i don't think it's really original enough to worry about if it fits in a already existing category...

anyway, as has already been said, you don't really need to worry about people stealing it if you just don't tell people.

"We make the worst games in the universe..."
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HWT
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Posted: 25th Jan 2006 19:19
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Quote: " sorry, but i don't think it's really original enough to worry about if it fits in a already existing category...
"


But doesn't everything fit in some category? No matter how much a game can toss and turn you in its tumbling vortex of action, adventure, rpg, fps etc... genres, doesn't it still fit as a "RPG" or "FPS"?

When I said the idea was original I meant the storyline and features of the game itself were original (not seen yet) but the game still fits in some genre.

Quote: "anyway, as has already been said, you don't really need to worry about people stealing it if you just don't tell people."

I understand but I'm worried some company might find the idea after I have already done and make the game themselves - I guess that's just bad luck :\(

What if I publish a short demo version of the game on some known showcase so that if anybody else tries to take my idea, I can prove that I've been there first due to the date on the forum?

HelloWorld Tommorrow
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Peter H
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Posted: 25th Jan 2006 19:42 Edited at: 25th Jan 2006 19:42
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Quote: "But doesn't everything fit in some category? No matter how much a game can toss and turn you in its tumbling vortex of action, adventure, rpg, fps etc... genres, doesn't it still fit as a "RPG" or "FPS"?"

well, obviously, the reviewing sites will have to catoragize your game... and it's not likely they will make a whole new category for your game... but if you really want it to be original, try not to limit it to a certain genre (not saying you are, we don't really know much about these games... and you shouldn't tell us if you want to keep the ideas)

"We make the worst games in the universe..."
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HWT
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Posted: 25th Jan 2006 22:29
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Speaking of today's games, does any body here believe that games are getting worse or better based on graphics AND originality? I know it's a bold question but ever since I went out of touch with the PC gaming world since Deus Ex came out I always see this new hype games as just wannabees trying to compete with legends like Deus Ex or Half life (or as Albert Goldman, Disco said
Quote: " Everyone (every game) sees himself (itself) as a start today. This is both a cliche and a profound truth. Thousands of young men and women (new games) have the looks (hype), the clothes (boxed version covering), the hairstyling (extra booklets for games), the drugs (DX 9.0c), the personal magnetism (more hype), the self-confidence ("I came from Lithtech engine"), and the history of conquest ("and from Eidos mind you") that proclaims a star (great game). The one thing they lack - talent (substance)- is precisely what is most lacking in those other, nearly identical, young people whom the world has acclaimed as stars (games). Never in the history of show biz (gaming) has the gap between amateur and professional been so small. And never in the history of the world has there been such a rage for exhibitionism. The question is, therefore, what are we going to do with all these beautiful show-offs?"


HelloWorld Tommorrow
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Jeff Miller
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Posted: 26th Jan 2006 06:52
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I'm a copyright lawyer (in the US). An "idea" cannot be copyrighted here. An artistic expression can, if it is fixed in a tangible medium, like a written description of a game script. An "idea", if otherwise secret, can be protected by contract between you and someone to whom you disclose it. However, Tinkergirl's observation about the reluctance of publishers to enter into such a contract is right on point.
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dark coder
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Posted: 26th Jan 2006 07:00
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i dont think that games are getting worse its just our expectations of games are rapidley increacing, the reason games like hl were very popular and still to this day is because no one had seen anything like it before, as back then most games were just the same old 2d games, and now games like those have branched off into other very good games but people have already played hl and arent as amazed.

however i seriously think that games companys are pushing the engines less and less, valve seem to have got the css engine to a very good stage as it runs very well on most pc`s, cant say that for many games these days.

so currently it seems the game with the most hype, most shaders and most polys seems to sell the most, altough most get dissapointed that there computer cant run it so that it looks anything like the promo pics.

Halowed are the ori.
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HWT
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Posted: 26th Jan 2006 10:44
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But are games really just a bunch of moving polygons or sprites? Games are more than that - they have a storyline weaved into their fabric, supported by their graphics and sounds. Deus Ex and Half Life were such games but nowadays EVERYONE (including companies) seem to be concentrating on delivering movie like graphics. Isn't that what games SHOULDN'T be? Trying to deliver more on graphics or sound than on storyline or gameplay?

HelloWorld Tommorrow
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Tinkergirl
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Posted: 26th Jan 2006 11:01
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As soon as you can get players/buyers to see past the graphics, then companies will happily oblige.

Games that have wonderful gameplay, but mediocre graphics don't sell. Because players DEMAND next-gen, super-sexy, shadered-to-within-an-inch-of-your-life (getting that nasty plastic look), photorealistic graphics.

With companies struggling to generate all of this next-gen art (and outsourcing some of it to random 3rd world countries) do you think they have time, money or manpower to focus on things like gameplay or originality? You'd hope they do.

That, and publishers DO NOT WANT originality. It doesn't sell. If you say "Our game is a HL2 beater!" people will buy it. If you say "Our game is new and exciting, with a powerful storyline and engaging novel gameplay!" people won't touch it - it's new, it's unknown, it might be rubbish.

So please: if you want originality in games, buy original games. Show developers and publishers that uber-graphics aren't what you need - and that originality and gameplay is.

And lastly, if you're making your own game - please don't be derivitive. Don't try to make 'HL1.2' or 'FFVII.V' or something - you're only creating the very things you'd be sick of if a professional company made it.

[/rant]
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Codelike
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Posted: 26th Jan 2006 11:32
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DC, HWT & Tinkergirl,
You took this thread in an interesting direction!

DC & HWT - personally, I think the best game would be a fully interactive 3d/holographic/movie-type thingy! You're in a new world! Immerse yourself! Until the technology side-of-things is mature (like paper & ink!), then storyline may not automatically be the priority for developers. Rather, they'll concentrate on making the software take full advantage of the hardware technology available.

Tinkergirl - Everything is derivative to one degree or another. Bricks upon bricks, so to speak. The question is, whether it's improved graphics or storyline, can something new be added to it?

What urgently needs to be developed for a game, IMHO? A really good interactive language AI for the NPCs. NPCs need to talk & respond in a manner which is much more real. There's my idea ...or is it?!

I have an XP3000+, 1.5gb DDR333, a 6600GT and I'm programming 3k text-based exe's?!
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Tinkergirl
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Posted: 26th Jan 2006 11:57
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Quote: "A really good interactive language AI for the NPCs. NPCs need to talk & respond in a manner which is much more real. There's my idea ...or is it?!
"


Working as I do for a games company - I couldn't possibly comment.
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Codelike
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I have an XP3000+, 1.5gb DDR333, a 6600GT and I'm programming 3k text-based exe's?!
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dark coder
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Posted: 26th Jan 2006 16:08
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well atleast most games now have multiplayer which saves them i guess.

Halowed are the ori.
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Peter H
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Posted: 26th Jan 2006 16:23
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Quote: "well atleast most games now have multiplayer which saves them i guess."

misery loves company...

"We make the worst games in the universe..."
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HWT
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Posted: 26th Jan 2006 16:26 Edited at: 26th Jan 2006 16:29
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I remember when I got Gabriel Knight 3 *reminiscing*. How I loved to play that game... For me, adventure games, RPGs are the best. They let you go places, some let you fight baddies etc... but Gabriel Knight 3 was one of those rare chances. I didn't even wanted to buy it at first but later something edged me to do so. I ended up playing a game that bore its memory on my mind so vividly and pleasurably that I can never forget those feelings; unravelling the mystery it held within its core, passing by the many twists and turns of the game. It was awesome...

Of course, then there game Deus Ex which, though could not remove every trace of GK3 did a lot to remind me of how a good consipiracy could lend an extra boost to the games abilities to captivate and awe its audiences.

I went through a lot of trouble to get Deus Ex. You see, my parents didn't like me buying games so I had to find a way of doing so without letting them know. I found a seller in my country and meticulously planned for 1 month to get it. On that fateful day, alas, the plan failed and I was caught. Having to lie to my entire family was what hurt me greatly but more than that - I had to walk over 3 miles to get home from the post office from where I sent the cheque for the game. 10 days later, it arrived but we all had to leave abroad (no computers) and so I had to wait another 2 months just to play it. And when I did... the feeling was exhilarating and inspiring.

I shall never forget those days... long since have I cherished their memory and only hope that in the future, someone with the same vision will come forth and revolutionise the industry...

*Slaps self* SNAP OUT OF IT! It's only a GAME!

HelloWorld Tommorrow
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re faze
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i thought of an idea for a device that finds things and 3 months into the idea i saw something really similar being sold in a radio shack flyer. i was really pissed but that's the way the world works, the day you find something, there willl be three other people who found it already.

Dont code slowly be SWIFT about it!
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Becky
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Posted: 26th Jan 2006 17:14
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"You can resist the invasion of armies, but you cannot resist the invasion of ideas."

In short, if you cannot protect your idea with a baseball bat then you're flat out of luck.
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Darkbasic MADPSP
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Posted: 26th Jan 2006 17:41
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I can't be bothered to read long posts so i will with my naswer evenif it has been said

Quote: "How DO you prevent people copying your idea?"

Just don't tell them

where i went on holiday to
www.portaventura.es and also http://themepark.nl/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB7&Number=661483&page=0&fpart=all
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HWT
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Posted: 26th Jan 2006 18:58 Edited at: 26th Jan 2006 19:00
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Anyway, this long trip has left me enlightened. Thank you my friends

Also, please check out my other thread regarding which laptop is the best. I could sure use everybody's help in deciding. Here is the link:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=70094&b=2

HelloWorld Tommorrow
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