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DarkBASIC Discussion / Anyone else noticed this??

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Danmatsuma
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Posted: 10th Mar 2003 17:03
O.k first, I havn't been here long and I'm working pretty hard on my comp entry so I'll contribute more to the forums when that's over...

Here's what i found:

Say you want to animate a texture frame by frame and you have a horizontal series of frames in a bitmap like so:

|1|2|3|4|5|

here's some code that I would've thought watertight:

if timer()=frameinc+100
frameinc=timer()
scroll limb texture object,limb,0.2,0.0
endif


if timer()=frameinc+100
frameinc=timer()
scroll limb texture object,limb,0.2,0.0
endif
[/code}
ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 10th Mar 2003 17:20
Oops, sorry 'bout this one must've hit post by mistake, the correct post is above, this one's just downright confused...
Have a broken wrist you know so please forgive

Anyone who can is welcome to trash this thread.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 10th Mar 2003 21:45
i'd alter that slightly



obviously you change the FPS and TF to what you need them as

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Andy Igoe
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Posted: 10th Mar 2003 21:45
if timer=>

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God made the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 10th Mar 2003 21:46
oh bugger no... try this lol



Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 11th Mar 2003 17:58
Hmmm, thanks Raven but I think someone deleted the wrong thread, I reposted this later, this whole thread was an accident, anyway it shoulda looked like this:

Say you want to animate a texture frame by frame and you have a horizontal series of frames in a bitmap like so:

|1|2|3|4|5|

here's some code that I would've thought watertight:



Now my point was that if I let this run for over 10 minutes
then the texture will drift slowly off centre, which shouldn't happen...

That's what I was curious about, to see if anyone else had noticed this happening, 'cos if it's a bug then it'll happen no matter how you implement texture scrolling, and you'd have to retexture the limb/object whatever every 5 min's or so like Hamish said in the other (correct) thread -now deleted.

That edit post thing would sure come in handy...

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Danmatsuma
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Posted: 11th Mar 2003 18:01
Oh yeah, the proof:

0.2*5=1.0 which should be a perfect loop.
I could have understood if it were something like 0.3333*3=1.0 over time it would depend on the decimal places db supports etc blah blah blah...

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 00:53
oh yeah your right... i keep forgetting - put '#' at the end of the values

this is me getting too used to C++ and DBpro's data types - lol you need that symbol for real numbers

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 00:54


so that instead

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 06:24
you need the # in your example but not mine 'cos the variables are just to trigger the frame scroll, not really manipulating real numbers... Funny I just built an .exe and left it running for an hour, it doesn't happen (the offsetting) then. Hey I like that example raven, would be real easy to turn it into a function to access a specific frame conditionally... But then again, mine's only got one condition to pass before the main loop can get on with other stuff... Wow that's anal, comes from programming 8 bit machines but useful sometimes

hmm yeah when you do these code snippets it's easy to forget the little details... Might paste from my source in future.



reworded for those who know their projectors...
That's what I meant in the first place.

For anyone who don't understand why you'd do this, when you UVW map your object you make it 5 times the width it should be then move it so when you apply the texture you can only see one frame of a "filmstrip".
Then you can do animation that's not just stretching or scrolling one image...
Obviously you can do it vertically too hell maybe everyone knows this... wait, i'll put something about this in the newcomers corner.

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 06:26
AAAAAAARGH! why did that happen!
get the jist anyhow.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 07:51
personally i never do my textureing like this... i take a image and use the 'get image' command instead create an animated texture that way

but its really each to his own isn't it

but still look at what you wrote


i know it doesn't really require the # ... however if you don't use it then you should use 'int( timer() )' as the value your checking against.
DarkBasic can be very fussy about its data in that way alot of the time.

that said i've been working recently with the '>' and '<' symbols, especially with them with other operators like the '=' ... and for some reason they don't always work

i mean for example



now technically that should work dandy ... but unfortunately it doesn't

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 09:20
weird,

yeah i noticed db seems to prefer the < > to =
in some circumstances, it won't take notice of any of these conditions until the 2n'd or third pass through a loop even when it's printing the correct results to the screen...

there were things wrong with every scripting language ever made, and sometimes, just sometimes it's that very !"undocumented functionality"! that gives them their charm. I

I was trying something before with reshack to change DB's built in primatives, fun, fun, fun...

I left that loop going for 10 minutes in the editor, and got offset textures, but in the final exe version that did not happen at all. I think i can live with that

I took the liberty...


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 09:52
hehee... actually its old source was just making a point
but you see what i mean though (^_^)

see i don't mind qwirky bugs and all, but i think mathematical bug which prevent simple operators to perform correctly should be tested and fixxed prior to release - as Mathematics is the pure bases of almost every program you'll ever create.

just think they need to be looked into is all

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 10:23
Sure I agree, in the end when you release something, charge for it, and promise to support it then you just gotta do it... Maybe the folks didn't expect all the cash and are too busy drinkin' it to care... I was never good at maths but always good at finding a way around it. If you are (and it seems you are) then you have the advantage sir!
But in the end whether they fix these things or not, workarounds will be found just like they were for zx basic, commodore, trash-80, all those machines with their languages were so crude jeez I spent enough time coding c,c++,pascal and the like, it just wasn't fun. You end up with no social life, and the rewards are few and far between. In the end I asked myself is this better than sex? The answer of course you know.
now with this on the other hand I can do in minutes what woulda taken hours, in hours what woulda taken weeks, and that leaves time for those opposite kinds of behaviour which are so conducive to the creative process... man I'm typing all this with my left hand 'cos I broke it doing just the sort of stoopid stuff I'm talkin' about...
Anyway all that said I'm not sure I could trust this DB stuff to do anything real SERious like, you do want stability if you'r embarking on a long journey like a commercial program...

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 11:39
hehee... well after this past weekend, i don't think i care if i have sex again - dunno what it is about meaningless boffin' but doesn't seem as enjoyable as with someone ya care for (^_^) but i'm probably just weird

i have alot of fun usually working around bugs in codes, but sometimes it isn't fun just trying to work around headaches
i mean i did once try some serious projects within DarkBasic Enhanced - however i gave up because alot of it just started to become unviable ... so i moved it to C++ MFC, but my C++ isn't exactly good enough (not that my programming in general is)... and right now moved back to DBpro, as i can handle the bugs in that better as there arn't as many bugs with the basics

biggest problem is you'll work through a huge program and hit a snag which the work around requires you to recode an entire section of the program which has a knock on, just to fixx something like it doesn't want to export a memblock or object from within a function where its created - or rather it doesn't want to recognise it, so you have to rewrite in an array to grab the data export it to a gosub which has been setup specially to handle this kinda data and such.

it does get very trying
wish i was some kinda programmer that people seem to think i am around here, but when it all comes down to it - i'd rather delete the whole DB program and just concentrate on artwork for people projects... just this inane need for me to try and prove that something is always possible to myself - so i take on stupid challenges from everyone and anyone, unfortunatly has kept me coding almost nonstop for the past month last time i even opened 3ds max or maya was around Valantines day - which just depresses me.

wish more people could understand language more simply, see this is what i see is the largest problem right now why everyone sees programming as something daunting - they don't actually learn how simplistic it all is.

its like all a program is, is checking for a condition and if that condition is true then you run a small program which does something, which will no doubt use some pretty standard maths to achieve.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 12:33
1st paragraph all too true.

Well yeah, and it's a state of mind, like I said before I'm terrible at maths, I couldn't even remember what terminology i needed to look up for the AI in my game (trig!), but it doesn'tt matter if you have the right mindset.
I think a lot of the problem is that because it's so time consuming and personal (and shut in!!)that especially with a language like assembly or even c, people regard their finds as top secret, not even realizing that they've practically had to reinvent the wheel, as has been done maaaany times before.
The knowledge you fight tooth and nail for has been there in the minds of hundreds of individuals fo 10's of years now.
If I were a young aspiring programmer today (I kind of am in a way) I could imagine being super-daunted by the sheer size of the books involved, the large names of any courses available etc... When I got into it you just had this little box no-one else knew anything about and just started experimenting. Oh the day when I discovered the loop, but really the thing i liked about it was the personality you could imbue your characters with, I always loved to draw
and here was a way to give these characters a life of their own, and the whole c thing ruined that for me, I actually ended up joining a rock'n roll band and became a womanizing drunk, years i'll always wonder what i could have acheived in though i gotta admit it was fun at the time...

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Danmatsuma
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 12:35
Hey maybe you know about this, I still use max 3.x and chilliskinner to do my modelling, and now I'm making game models i've discovered a quirk that only happens when you export a 3ds model.. Vertex unwelding.
Does this happen to you, do you know of a better way of dealing with it than exporting to another program and rewelding 'em there, now THAT's a bug!!

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 15:50
3DS doesn't support multiple UV Map Vertex...
so it'll export all the UV Map Vertex rather than the Model Vertex - this means you end up with alot more Vertex than normally would, and it sometimes screws up your smoothing.

not a bug, its just what happens i'm afraid

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 05:13
Makes sense, but then i don't see how another program can fix it if it's a file format problem...
I'll post whatever workaround I find in the modeling forum...

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Danmatsuma
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 05:22
wait a moment, if that's the case it should be as simple as
uvwunwrap, weld all uvw vertex' together where the seams should be. trying that now.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 05:49
the way to fixx it is to combine all the vertex together and setup thier normals/light index vectors to 90°

alot of engines do this ... but in DB you'll have to do it manually and to be honest its more bother than worth

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 06:18
well what i said before works a treat,
simple yes, but TEDIOUS, you have to re do your texture afterwards...

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 06:23
always is a choice between living with something and do something tedious

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 06:55
Yep.

Hey I'm just a perfectionist, don't like living with anything that doesn't HAVE to be lived with, though i've grown to understand that some things you just do have to.

But that was a golden nugget of info raven, never had the need to export a .3ds before, so I coulda spent a looong time trying to work out what caused that

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 07:02
yup... i'm a fountain of information - i have a tendancy to splash everyone with useless crap as well

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 07:08
Well the way I see it when you work your ass of to fill your head with useful info, and in that process you also must put up with "redundant info" which you just had to learn on the way to the good stuff:
If someone else is gonna benefit from all that work, and yet not have to put up with the redundant stuff, the least they can do is put up with a bit of fluff here and there...

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 14th Mar 2003 00:34
i can live with that sorta justification hehee

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 14th Mar 2003 07:19
well it works for me

Redundant info caused this for me a while back:

Dreaming of endlessly scrolling screen of dos commands, batch programs written to do every single stoopid thing one had to do back then, lists of povray vertex positions in text files before imagine 1.0 came out, tga>fli all that stuff... What a nightmare.

I stoopidly resisted windows for a loooong time more than I should've...

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.

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