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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Foreignerrs.....

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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 11th Mar 2003 04:15
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No not an arrogant post proclaiming Great Brittain as Queen of the world, but a question about bi-linguistics*.

I'd like to include support for people who talk funny. I can create text such as '—á‚ÌŠO?‘?l‚̃eƒLƒXƒg'** which to most of us is gobble-dee-gook, but to someone from Japan it is an innate way of communicating.

The problem I have is all of the Japanese, Chinese and Russian characters are not conventional font characters like English, French and beta-B Germans - so how does one go about selecting a suiteable font for their display in DBPro?

I've been right through my limited font collection and have had no luck.

Andy
*Although personally I am hetro.
**Might not work on these forums or with your browser configuration
Pneumatic Dryll, Outrageous epic cleric of EQ/Xev
God made the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 11th Mar 2003 04:17
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OK the Japanese text didn't appear, infact that's the exact problem I have in DBPro. I've created a text file with the text to display to have all the correct ASCII values but no font on my system is able to display them (just Internet Explorer).

Pneumatic Dryll, Outrageous epic cleric of EQ/Xev
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 11th Mar 2003 16:35
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As far as I can see the gobble-dee-gook doesn't display using standard ASCII - is this the UUEncoding thing? I really don't know much about this subject, only that I want to say 'cianide-arra' in my game

The thing I don't understand about these extended character sets is if I save them in a standard text format like plain text the ASCII values seem to be lost - at least when I reload them in to Wordpad (which displays the extended text - Notepad doesn't).

Saving the file in rich text format gives me this:

{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang2057{\fonttbl{\f0\froman\fprq1\fcharset128 MS Gothic;}{\f1\fnil\fcharset0 Times New Roman;}}
\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20\'82\'b3\'82\'e6\'82\'a4\'82\'c8\'82\'e7\f1\par
}

Which was just 'goodbye' to begin with - only in Japanese.

So really I don't think it is possible to get this text in DBPro without a cunning .dll writer - which is a shame but heck, serves em right for having a dead spider for a language!

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darkCorridor
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Posted: 11th Mar 2003 17:39
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rtf ALWAYS saves like that so when you load it up it knows the font etc.

[br]mikey
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coyote
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Posted: 11th Mar 2003 18:47
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hiya

how can i use Japanese or Russian in dbpro?
SET TEXT FONT Fontname, Charset Value
command dont work.
what is Charset Value for japanese or Russian in dbpro??
i know Dark Basic could use these character set.
let me know how some one know.

thx

too much isnt good...
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 11th Mar 2003 18:57
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You would use something like a string table - using one for English, one for French etc, they would both have the same codes, but different strings.

Then just display them on the screen.

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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Dmitry K
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Posted: 11th Mar 2003 20:01
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For Russian text
Set Text Font Fontname, 204
It's work for me.

Full list:

DEFAULT_CHARSET 1
SYMBOL_CHARSET 2
SHIFTJIS_CHARSET 128
HANGEUL_CHARSET 129
HANGUL_CHARSET 129
GB2312_CHARSET 134
CHINESEBIG5_CHARSET 136
OEM_CHARSET 255
JOHAB_CHARSET 130
HEBREW_CHARSET 177
ARABIC_CHARSET 178
GREEK_CHARSET 161
TURKISH_CHARSET 162
VIETNAMESE_CHARSET 163
THAI_CHARSET 222
EASTEUROPE_CHARSET 238
RUSSIAN_CHARSET 204
MAC_CHARSET 77
BALTIC_CHARSET 186

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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 11th Mar 2003 20:45
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THANKYOU! I'll get to trying this with Chinese and Russian strait away! Any ideas what Korean and Japanese might be please?

Pneumatic Dryll, Outrageous epic cleric of EQ/Xev
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Dmitry K
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Posted: 11th Mar 2003 20:54
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128 SHIFTJIS_CHARSET Japanese shift-JIS characters.
129 HANGEUL_CHARSET Korean characters (Wansung).
130 JOHAB_CHARSET Korean characters (Johab).
134 GB2312_CHARSET Simplified Chinese characters (mainland china).
136 CHINESEBIG5_CHARSET Traditional Chinese characters (Taiwanese).

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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 11th Mar 2003 21:57
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OK I'm nearly there, i'm just a little stuck in loading in my text files, i've saved them out in unicode format which is two-bytes per character.

So taking a nice short example in Russian. The cyrilic word for sky is Hebo with a funnier looking 'b'. If I load that back in from a unicode formatted text file it looks like this:

1D 04 35 04 31 04 3E 04

The question I now have is - how do I put that back into a string?

I'm very much at a loss as to how to do this, but i'd like to include native support for our oversees cousins in my game - so any help is appreciated.

Pneumatic Dryll, Outrageous epic cleric of EQ/Xev
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 11th Mar 2003 22:23
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oh cool theres something i didn't know ... that'll be useful

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 11th Mar 2003 23:20
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Perhaps one of our users from the Eastern block would be kind enough to go through the keyboard and tell me the asc() values for the cyrilic alphabet please?

Then I could reverse engineer the unicode format to make a loading routine and hopefully the same maths will work for other languages too.

Armed with that - perhaps Raven could then make a unicode.dll?

Andy

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 11th Mar 2003 23:21
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hmmm... yes Raven could
and i think i will (^_^)

lets just hope i'm fast enough this time to beat bloody Toady

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 11th Mar 2003 23:26
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Well as soon as I work out the unicode format i'll msn or email a working DBPro loader function for you to use as a base - howzat

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Dmitry K
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Posted: 11th Mar 2003 23:30
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Try it. Maybe it work for you. You also can try call MultiByteToWideChar or WideCharToMultiByte from Kernel32.dll

set text font "arial", 204

Text 10,10, " Nebo - "+Chr$(205)+Chr$(229)+Chr$(225)+Chr$(238)

Set Cursor 0, 30
For i=32 To 256
If (i/10.0-ABS(i/10))=0.0 Then Print ""
Print CHR$(i)+" - "+Str$(i)+" ";
Next i
Do
Loop

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Arrow
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Posted: 11th Mar 2003 23:50
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Why not make a jpeg or bmp pic that contains the desired characters and set each of them to sprites and asemble them into a sentance. I've not tried this theory, so don't flame me if it's not possible. It's just an idea.

Am I a butterfly dreaming I'm a man?
Or a bowling ball dreaming I'm a plate of samishi?
Never assume that what you see or feel is real.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 11th Mar 2003 23:56
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sounds like a plan Pneu. that would be great, thanks
Hito, the point here is to have the character set to work natively with the text command - so we can display in any language we choose to

i think just to piss everyone off i'm gonna make a spait of demo's which are all in japanese hehee
(be just like a real console release )

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 01:50
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Close, but i'm not smoking my cigar yet... Some of the characters still arn't coming across right :/



I'll keep at it.

Pneumatic Dryll, Outrageous epic cleric of EQ/Xev
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 02:49
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OK I admit it I am still stumped, UTF-8 (1 byte per character) format text files do not seem to preserve extended ASCII codes and i've not figured out UTF-16 yet (2 bytes per character).

How would I go about retuning a value from MultiByteToWideChar and WideCharToMultiByte please? I've seen in the help that .dll's can return a value but when I try txt$=call dll ... the program will not execute :/

The problem in full is that I can create the Russian (and Japanese, Chinese etc) in Wordpad and save the file using the unicode option in the save dialogue.

I then can load the file in to a hex editor and view it and see that it is stored in 2 bytes per character format, which I gather is UTF-16 Unicode. My problem is understanding how to get the contents of this file into a dimensioned array (language$(n)=)for use in the program.

In the example above I was almost sucessful by using the maccryillic format, however this is a MacOS format and some of the asc() values do not correspond with the PC. Also there is no MacOS file format that i'm aware of for the other languages I would like to include.

Pneumatic Dryll, Outrageous epic cleric of EQ/Xev
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 05:58
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OMG!



Now for some sleep - then tommorow on to Japanese which looks a lot harder :/

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 06:12
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lmao... oki well thats kinda annoying - i spent an hour on this with you and my results are getting worse and worse, and yours are getting better

wish you'd of sent me that info on the UTF formats, cause the Unicode's are driving me bloody insane

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 11:52
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Sorry after that it was definately time for bed, it was after 4am! I'll get cracking on the Japanese today which I know you wanted then i'll send it over before starting work on the next step - Chineese, Taiwaneese and Korean.

After that i'm out of languages I can translate too, or should I say i'm out of tongue me tin workout 2.

Pneumatic Dryll, Outrageous epic cleric of EQ/Xev
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 13:51
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New problem.

Cyrillic has all of it's characters in the 0-255 asc() range, the problem with Japanese and other Eastern languages is that they do not.

This meens that Cyrillic is easy to display with text and print commands, because all you need to do is know the correct asc() value to give chr$().

Japanese though is a different matter, because in order to display it we are going to need a method of displaying a two-byte character onscreen and DBPro does not appear to have native support for that with text and print.

Is it possible to put such features in to a .dll command ?

To give you some idea, all of the Cyrillic UTF-16 characters have the same second byte '04', but so far looking at Japanese i've not found the same second byte twice yet.

If I recall correctly they have 8,000 words in regular daily use and all have their own character. This is going to be harder than I thought.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 15:43
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hehee... remember, Kaji is the lowercase sets combinations of a constanent followed by a vowel ... + double constanent followed by a vowel (which will no doubt be a small value added to the original constanant because it is the same) ... you then have Hagi which will be the second set same as before, but different characters ... you'll then have the word symbols (which are the capital letters)

they have a 26constant base * 6 vowels (eioun) + 26double constant base * 6vowels + 6vowels + Extra TriSounds (which if i remember makes up the 34 base)

well good luck hehee

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 18:03
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*boggle*

Without a meens to display characters with ascii valus over 255 in DBPro I cannot even start. :/

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 18:43
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if you change the character set to 128 it allows word values to be used for the values for the chr$()

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 19:24
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You know, I really should try things out before I post about them....

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 19:33
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lol... i have that problem too

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coyote
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 09:10
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heya



SHIFTJIS_CHARSET dont work in DBpro.

Db113 works fine.

too much isnt good...
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coyote
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 12:29
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i hope dbp support 2byte or multibyte
so lota people can program with dbp.

bytheway im Chinese

and

iwanna use 2byte charset!!!!!

too much isnt good...
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 13:04
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I've got partial multi-byte routines in by plug-ins (needed it for Speech) - I dont know whether its been exposed yet though.

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 13:04
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I meant my plug-ins.

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 13:09
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Yes, it is exposed - the function is ASCIIToWide - returns a memory address that needs to be free'ed. Converts ASCII text to Wide/Unicode.

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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n3t3r453r
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 17:34
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DMiTR0S:
Some one said me that he can't write english and he can only read, am I right? :p LOL!
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n3t3r453r
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 17:38
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PneumaticDryll:
Not "èíè÷èàòèâîé", but "èíèöèàòèâîé"
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 14th Mar 2003 00:11
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Sadly the forum doesn't show that n3t3r453r - could you email it to me please, html formatted emails support unicode where-as the forums dont

Pneumatic

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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 14th Mar 2003 10:26
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It's ok - now that i've had some sleep and caffeine i've realised how dumb that last post is

Also I realise my mistake in the translation, clearly 'sacrifice 3 virgins' is not an ideal translation of 'initialising 3D', mind you i'm quite impressed that I only got 1 character wrong out of that whole section.

Lets see what happens when I get to the rest of the program, my menu's might end up looking like: Phille Legit View Favorite Tooters Held

Thank you for the correction.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 14th Mar 2003 12:27
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lmao... sounds like a peagan cook book recipe

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n3t3r453r
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Posted: 14th Mar 2003 15:01
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If you want to write 'initializing 3D', it's better to write 'èíèöèàëèçàöèÿ 3D'. Or just 'initializing 3D', because mostly people knows meaning of such computer words without translation .

In my opinion it isn't needed to make translation in such games as Action (IGI/2; Mafia; CS;...) , RTS(Com&Con), cars sim. But it can be very hard to play without translation in games as quests, RPG(as Gothic).

P.S. my english sound some times as funy as your russian

I am a cat. I have a hat.
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coyote
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Posted: 14th Mar 2003 16:49
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iwanna use 2byte charset, relly..

too much isnt good...
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 14th Mar 2003 19:14
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Hehe - wait until you see my Dutch translation

One of the main reasons i'm including bi-lingual support at this stage is because the program I am writting is a game backbone for many types of games, the second game I plan on releasing with it myself is an RPG and elements of the first strategic game will likely be easier when in the users native tongue.

However, you can expect much fun and confusion in reading my translations - you are likely still better off in English but it's the thought that counts right!

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coyote
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Posted: 16th Mar 2003 06:34
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hi all

DBpro has bug with set text font command.
some of font character set dont work at all.

try below code with Dark basick and DarkBasicPro.
this is test code using shift-jis char in text command.


this image shows shift-jis font in windows with
DarkBasic v1.13 using below code.



this image doesnt show shift-jis font in windows with
DarkBasicPro using below same code.




i think DarkBASICPro cant use below character set;
128 SHIFTJIS_CHARSET Japanese shift-JIS characters.
129 HANGEUL_CHARSET Korean characters (Wansung).
130 JOHAB_CHARSET Korean characters (Johab).
134 GB2312_CHARSET Simplified Chinese characters (mainland china).
136 CHINESEBIG5_CHARSET Traditional Chinese characters (Taiwanese).
DarkBasic v1.13 could use all character set without anyproblem.

i tested with
OS:
japanese windows 2000
korean windows 2000
chinese windows 2000

Graphic card:
Geforce256

let me use all fonts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thx

too much isnt good...
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 16th Mar 2003 20:07
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Over to you please Rich, patch 5 or 6?

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 17th Mar 2003 02:35
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:: psst! Pneu :: you may wanna ask for Lee or Mike to add it - i have a feeling they have more influence over what is fixxed

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coyote
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Posted: 17th Mar 2003 06:04
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i hope they will fix this kinda problem in Patch4.

too much isnt good...
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 17th Mar 2003 09:49
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True Raven, but Rich is very much the 'voice' of DB. He even replies to my more moronic eMails and soon I think i'll get his guard down enough to type a smillie!

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