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Geek Culture / Free or Sell -- What would you do?

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RUCCUS
19
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Joined: 11th Dec 2004
Location: Canada
Posted: 15th Feb 2006 20:09
I've been working on a collision/physics system that should, if I'm right, put an end to the questions on how to get collision or physics into games. It's fairly advanced so far and features theories that I *think* have never been used before.

I havent completed the programming aspect on the computer but I've got pages upon pages explaining how everything works, all of the calculations are complete, I've even written a tutorial, soits just a matter of entering it into the computer and fixing a few bugs here and there that will undoubtedly arise.

So, onto the question. I've put a lot of work into developing this system, and Im pretty sure its going to help a lot of people (well atleast I hope so), and because of that I've come to the conclusion that I could make a good dollar on it if I were to sell it, now ofcourse I'm not talking anything expensive, maybe 5 bucks, probably less.

On the other hand, I enjoy helping people a lot and dont would hate for this to become one of those "you could get RUCCUS' collision system but you have to pay for it" scenarios, plus I remember when I was trying to figure this stuff out I never had the money to buy a system so I had to settle for crappy collision in my games with next-to-no physics. Add on that if I were to sell it, why would people buy it from me when they've got Nuclear Glory right around the corner, a proffesional programming company with working staff and vending machines.

I'm not quite sure why Im asking this, especially if I end up post-poning this like I do all of my projects, but I'm just curious what any of you would do in the situation.

Now, obviously if you're speeking as a programmer you'd say I should give it away free, so instead try putting yourself in my shoes and then thinking what you'd do.

Once again, probably a very useless post but I'm curious

Thanks for reading, hope to get some comments soon,
- RUC'

Fallout
22
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Joined: 1st Sep 2002
Location: Basingstoke, England
Posted: 15th Feb 2006 20:17
From a business sense, if it does nothing new, it just does it differently, give it away free to get your reputation up. If it does something special or is a lot better than the competition, than you deserve to make some dollar from it, so sell it (but fairly). And if it works worse than the competition, such as nuclear glory, then don't even bother making it. I personally don't see the point in people making apps for the sake of it when they know anyone can pick up a better alternative for free (or very cheap).

Dot Merix
21
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Joined: 15th Oct 2003
Location: Canada
Posted: 15th Feb 2006 20:18
Speaking as a programmer i would say if it's taken you a lot of time to create, and you think it's worth it... Sell it, just make sure that the people buying it agree that it's worth the money.


WindowsXP Home(Service pack 2), Athlon XP 2400+(2.01Ghz), 1GIG Ram, Ati Radeon 9800Pro 128MB.
RUCCUS
19
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Joined: 11th Dec 2004
Location: Canada
Posted: 15th Feb 2006 20:48
Right now I cant be sure that its better than the competition, but in my mind and through my plans/calculations I've written out it would be. I've purchased NGC (not for the sake of this) and Im thinking of doing some comparison tests, but in the end I most likely will give it away for free, maybe with a donate option (though everyone knows those are useless). On the plus side it has physics, which to my knowledge NGC doesn't, then again dbp just came out with a new physics ODE though it has had some bugs and is fairly confusing to use.

I think I'll release a demo showing what the system can do and then ask for more advice. Possibly the ability to import your own models so people can get an idea of what the frame rate would be.

Thanks for the quick replies,
- RUC'

Milkman
18
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Joined: 30th Nov 2005
Location: United States
Posted: 15th Feb 2006 20:52
Quote: "so its just a matter of entering it into the computer and fixing a few bugs here and there"

that says to me, "he has no clue what he's talking about! "
lol

formerly xMik
re faze
20
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Joined: 24th Sep 2004
Location: The shores of hell.
Posted: 15th Feb 2006 21:32
see how it stacks up agains the competition. if its much better just sell it. otherwise, make a free and pay version.

Becky
18
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Joined: 26th Jan 2006
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Posted: 15th Feb 2006 21:38
There are a lot of free physics systems out there. A wise business move would be to focus on other genres of tool because quite often indi programmers would rather take a free solution with more work for them involved than to buy into something, afterall you are saving a programmer having to program - yet programming is what programmers do. The point of a physics library is only to make possible some things that some programmers cannot do.

If however your product is genuinely revolutionary then you are marketting to the wrong place. If your physics library really is "never been seen before" then sell it to the big games studios for big money, just make sure it has PPU support.

Personally I never use physics libraries as I like to integrate and optimise everything into my portalisation systems, but when PPU cards are more commonplace i'll gladly purchase a library if it lets me do my calculations on the card as the speed boost would be worth it (although likely to be less efficient on non-PPU systems).
Aoneweb
22
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Joined: 9th Sep 2002
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posted: 15th Feb 2006 21:53
Quote: "maybe with a donate option (though everyone knows those are useless)."

I have made donations to software I like, just to help the developer produce updates, if I found your system to be helpful, I would be happy to donate some dosh.

Hawkeye
21
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Joined: 19th Sep 2003
Location: SC, USA
Posted: 15th Feb 2006 22:51
Sell it. I'll just end up coding my own system anyways


I am but mad north north-west; when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw - Hamlet, Hamlet
CattleRustler
Retired Moderator
21
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Location: case modding at overclock.net
Posted: 15th Feb 2006 23:22
ruccus, if its not revolutionary then selling it will just disuade broke people from using it. I am assuming your core audience is "teenagers using dbp" ?

Automatic file Downloads/Updates for your distributed Games and Apps - see Program Announcements Forum
RUCCUS
19
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Joined: 11th Dec 2004
Location: Canada
Posted: 15th Feb 2006 23:24 Edited at: 15th Feb 2006 23:27
Quote: "that says to me, "he has no clue what he's talking about! "
lol "


Lol thats usually the case with me

Thanks for all the advice Im leaning towards the free route, Ill save the selling for my revolutionary games

Then again, Ill probably end up ditching the project as I do all of my projects when they're near completion ;(

<EDIT>

@CR, to me atleast, the theory is revolutionary, but in the end a collision system is a collision system and the same goes for a physics system. I was aiming it more towards the young, "I dont wana program I just want teh codez" programmers, not always teenagers but thats usually the case.

Anyhoo no need for the thread anymore, It'll be free if I ever finish it (working on it right now, so far so good )

CattleRustler
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Posted: 16th Feb 2006 02:27
good luck ruccus, I guess my advice was a little dbp'er-centric. In general, if the software is useful and time saving and somewhat slick you usually find people willing to buy it at a fair price. If this item you are talking about is only for dbp then maybe free is better. If it can be used from anything then you may want to sell it. Or maybe both, sell to non-dbp'ers, free for dbp'ers?

dunno, just babbling really - good luck ruccus

Automatic file Downloads/Updates for your distributed Games and Apps - see Program Announcements Forum
RUCCUS
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Location: Canada
Posted: 16th Feb 2006 03:56
At the risk of bumping this over a topic of some use, thanks

re faze
20
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Joined: 24th Sep 2004
Location: The shores of hell.
Posted: 16th Feb 2006 04:20
a ppu card is a waste of a pci slot unless intergrated into a gfx card, and even then, why not just use math like people have done for years? imo its wholly unnecessary.

BearCDPOLD
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Location: AZ,USA
Posted: 16th Feb 2006 05:38
Don't forget, you could always do what Nuclear Glory did. Release a preliminary version for free that is really useful, but you know there are a couple things you could add to really make it a complete package, and then release a second version for a cheap price. As the software becomes more developed you have a reason for charge more for it.


I'm going to eat you!
Conjured Entertainment
AGK Developer
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Location: Nirvana
Posted: 16th Feb 2006 06:11
I would sell it.

Don't forget to visit http://www.conjured.us/

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VR2
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Posted: 16th Feb 2006 17:02
Quote: "they've got Nuclear Glory right around the corner, a proffesional programming company with working staff and vending machines.
"

LOL!!! As if...NG is just a guy, like you Or perhaps he has help now. Then again, maybe not http://www.nuclearglory.com/php-bin/forumx/view_topic.php?id=345&forum_id=2

So don't sell yourself short, RUCCUS. You seem very polite and unassuming but also perhaps lacking in self confidence. This may or may not be well founded but I suspect that if you've taken the time to calculate all this on paper, successfully, and know that you can convert this to decent code (DBPro or C++ dll etc) then you're halfway there already.

If you charge for the product then you run the risk that no-one will ever see it / use it and your work will be "for nothing". If you give it for free then no doubt the effort will be undervalued by most but at least someone will use it and you will gain kudos for that.

Perhaps it would be possible to enable certain features only for paying customers, or simply let version #1 go out there for free and start charging for version 2 (hopefully with a queue of people waiting to buy and knowing what to expect).

The other thing about charging is that you will have to (it will be expected that you) support this product from there on, for a certain amount of time at least. That means dealing with any bugs, listening to and dealing with customers (if you get any that is). It doesn't sound too bad but when/if you get bored with this, you'll find yourself getting dragged back to help a customer implement it or fix bugs, when you'd probably much rather be doing something else. If you start selling this for < $5 then is that really gonna be worth it to you? If its no fun then why are you doing it for free?

I think my advice would be, if you are unsure then put out a "quick" v1 for free and see how it goes and then think about charging for the better / later versions (the later vresions will BE better, right?).

By "Quick" I mean don't kill yourself doing it - stay in-scope and to the point, make sure then when/if you come back to this in 6 months / years it will all still make sense, as much as possible at least. And maybe leave a few of the more advanced features out - the stuff that you think you can do but will take a large chunk of time / effort.

Above all, good luck and have fun.
RUCCUS
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Joined: 11th Dec 2004
Location: Canada
Posted: 18th Feb 2006 16:08
Thanks for the advice but I'm still most likely going free all the way if it does get completed.

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