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Geek Culture / Adobe Premier Pro Help / Adobe After Effects ??

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dab
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Posted: 20th Feb 2006 21:53
Hey, I have a few questions about the products mentioned above.

With Adobe Premier, I'm using the trial at the moment, and before I get it, I want to know if it's possible to do live keying efects.. So I could put me in front of a map of Canada and see me as I'm doing it. Is that possible with it?

With After Effects, what does it do? I realize the name after effects means it does special effects, but I'm playing with the trial, and it really doesn't seem to work that well. Though I guess I would need some experience and knowledge of what I'm doing. But My question about After Effects is, what can it do? Like what are some of the REALLY cool things it can do?

Thanks for helping me out with this everyone!

David-

Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 20th Feb 2006 22:51 Edited at: 20th Feb 2006 22:51
I'm 99% sure you can do keying in Premier, if you know how.

*loads up premier pro 2*

Yup - here it is:


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dab
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Posted: 20th Feb 2006 23:17 Edited at: 20th Feb 2006 23:23
Well I knew you could do that, but I was wanting to know if you could do it live. Like as I'm recording my self with my camera, I can see a different background behind me than a green screen. Thanks for your time though.

David R
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Posted: 20th Feb 2006 23:24
After effects is pretty darn cool. I have it on this very computer in fact

Its best at really low-level fiddling with the footage - stuff like manual keying, putting pieces of clips over the top of each other (with a very high level of control) and it can also be used to render 3d and various other things on the footage.

The main thing which After Effects has an edge on over Premiere (alot of features are shared between them however) is its rendering tools. It has a network footage renderer (so you can render footage between different PC's) and lots of other cool rendering optimizations.

I highly recommend sticking with premiere though. After effects is limited to only a few distinct purposes, and to be honest, given its price tag, it wasn't really worth it.

Quote: "Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all."
Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 21st Feb 2006 00:50
Quote: "It has a network footage renderer (so you can render footage between different PC's)"


You mean like sharing the load? In my house (well my parents) there is a 2.5Ghz, 2.6Ghz and my 4.4Ghz dual core (plus my 1Ghz linux box, my mums 1.2Ghz Sony laptop and my own 1.3Ghz iBook). Together they could make a pretty nice network-brain type machine!

As for live editing - I would have though your camera would do that. I have a Sony MiniDV Camera and there is a setting in there somewhere that does a kind of keying effect.

dab
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Posted: 21st Feb 2006 01:19
Hmm, This camera is a Cannon NTSC 2r70 MC (digital Video Camcorder) . And it has effects, just nothing with keying.....

Joh
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Posted: 21st Feb 2006 07:25
If you want to do live keying, you would need some hardware. Some video capture cards have this feature. Google for chromakey hardware might get you somewhere.

Premiere is straight up video editing. Comes with alot of very neat features. Preferred tool for many non-linear editors.

AfterEffects is a rocking effects tool. Its not an editing software, its as it says, effects software. If you want to spice up and sweeten your videos beyond the capabilities of Premiere, this is the tool. From messing with footage to motion graphics.

Checkout what people are doing with AE at www.creativecow.net.

!
dab
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Posted: 21st Feb 2006 07:46
Cool. Thanks for all that information.. So, I'm still searching for what you told me to look for, but could other people hopefully help me find the "hardware" I would need to do live keying? Then I could get an idea of what I'd need. And thanks guys so far for your help

Joh
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Posted: 21st Feb 2006 13:15
Ummm also try search live chromakeyer hardware

Afaik, there are 3 ways to do chromakeying. Live, Realtime and Rendered. Good hardware for live keying is expensive and also fussy, as in you need a really good setup to get good results. Realtime or Rendered solutions are more flexible as there is a higher degree of corrective features available ..hmm.. there's more stuff to tweak!

The live stuff, I've only seen in broadcst stations. Production houses I think generally use the other 2. There maybe some cheaper ones for live but I would question the quality.

Realtime keying, is also hardware based. You digitize your footage shot on blue or green screen, then you use the key's available in the editor. Because of the hardware, you can preview the key in realtime meaning no rendering before playback. Checkout videoguys.com for a comparative guide to some of the prosumer hardware available.

I've used Pinnacle Studio Pro (something like that) and Matrox X100, with Premiere. I like the Matrox.

Rendering - This happens if you don't have hardware or you need much finer control of the key and masks. Premiere's keys will do a decent job, but in real tough situation AfterEffects saves the day. Especially when I've had to work with poorly lit footage, soft shadows, and nasty blowing in the wind hair with the blue reflected on the subject.

So unless you really need to be live or just have the budget to burn I would suggest lookin at keying in post, with some like a Matrox x100 or equivalent.

Hope that helps a little more.

!
IanG
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Posted: 21st Feb 2006 17:07 Edited at: 21st Feb 2006 17:15
Quote: "Because of the hardware, you can preview the key in realtime meaning no rendering before playback"

in after effects you can preview it straight away with no additional hardware

something which i think should be brought up is that you should always choose a green screen over a blue one, as blue is affected by daylight more


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dab
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Posted: 21st Feb 2006 17:25 Edited at: 21st Feb 2006 17:29
Then I guess its a good thing that I have a green screen . Thanks. I'll look into the links, and info you gave me. By the way it sounds, I might not want to do live keying. I just thought it'd be cool as my sisters and I do movies for our parents for holidays (birthdays, christmas etc). And we are just starting to do the digital movies (we were using this old 1992 camera, but I don't have a device in on my video card). So, it would hard for 9year old little girl to say where Nebraska is when all she sees is green. lol But thanks everyone for the info so far.

Edit: So, what about this : http://videoguys.com/XDV4AV.html does it do live keying that anyone knows of? I know it comes with software but it looks like a decent package.

I'll keep adding links to things and be asking questions about them so I can learn and help others learn.

JoelJ
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Posted: 21st Feb 2006 17:40 Edited at: 21st Feb 2006 17:40
I love this:
Quote: "Avid XDV4AV $399.95!!"

Quote: "Avid for Less than $400!"

wow! they took that stupid nickel off so they could say that.
...
morons

and here's something GoogleAds brought up while i was reading htis thread:
http://fxhome.com/compositelab/


This just in: White lab coats cause cancer in mice. Details comming soon.
Joh
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Posted: 24th Feb 2006 04:39
Asked a friend. Cheapest, bestest, hardware chromkeyer
Ultimatte DV - Ultimatte have one of the best keyers around, from high end hardware to software (I've used it with AE)

Here's a review. I think its about 2-3k USD. Check local vendors for deals, etc.
http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=36451&afterinter=true

The popular brands of video hardware are pretty standard in features. What you need to look for, included software (that is worthwile), frequent driver updates for software you are using, hardware incompatibilities etc.

There are external, internal units, heck you can just use a firewire port. The difference to me is what you intend to use it for and how much of it. Editing a 30sec bumper, yeah I can live with software only, but give me a 3min music video with timed cuts and chromakey with layered visual...hardware please! I like to think of it like using 3d graphic cards. Standard pc opertaions, yeah Intergrated grphics is fine, but anything heavier you need hardware acceleration, and that range varies to your needs.

"I dont think I like the idea of my little photon being touched up by a switched off proggy and finishing off without ever actually getting inside." - Fallout
dab
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Posted: 24th Feb 2006 04:48
Wow. $3,000!!! That's kinda out of the buget. but lol. IF my video card has an s-video port, is that for going out, or in? It has one of those red,yellow,white ports (only yellow), but I'm thinking that's only out.... My video card is a Nvidia GeForce 6200 SE Turbo Cache. Thanks for all that info!!

Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 24th Feb 2006 14:12
It might have VI... Does your card have the phrase "VIVO" in the title anywhere? VIVO = Video In/Video Out.

How would this help though?

Flindiana Jones
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Posted: 24th Feb 2006 19:45
Hey, thanks so much for telling me that there was a demo of Adobe Premier, Dabip! I had never thought to look. So, now the movie I'm making's quality (and easiness of making) just went way batter! Thanks again!

Joh
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Posted: 24th Feb 2006 20:24
Quote: "those red,yellow,white ports (only yellow)"
RCA ports.

It probably is video out. But like Nicholas said, does the card or package say VIVO. Also does it have any adapter for it. Some of the graphics cards that have VIVO have one port, which you stick the supplied adapter to, and that gives you Video In and Out. If no VIVO or adapter, I would bet its v out.

"I dont think I like the idea of my little photon being touched up by a switched off proggy and finishing off without ever actually getting inside." - Fallout
dab
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Posted: 25th Feb 2006 06:27 Edited at: 25th Feb 2006 06:28
No, I bought it with the computer at costco so I'm not sure what's in the title, but it only has a s-video port, the yellow of the RCA ports (thanks), and the monitor port.

Quote: "How would this help though?
"
I was thinking it might lead to live video editing, maybe my card had a way to do live green screening..... Or maybe just faster recording, right now i'm using firewire with it, and it has a delay.... not sure if you can change this though.

Quote: "Hey, thanks so much for telling me that there was a demo of Adobe Premier"


.. No problem.. lol

Wiggett
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Posted: 25th Feb 2006 11:13 Edited at: 25th Feb 2006 11:15
yay more video people, hey dabip, what are you using it for? making in game movies? or just some other project??

as for live chromakeying, We have a studio so I'm not sure what kind of hardware we gots, but it isn't just your household pc, we have all the switcher boards and monitors etc. totally awesome.

Syndicate remastered: Corporate persuasion through urban violence.
dab
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Posted: 25th Feb 2006 19:01 Edited at: 25th Feb 2006 19:21
hmm, its so my sisters and I can do cool movies for our parents. And, I learned something by starting thsi thread. That more than the computer should be used for video making. Though I found out that my camera has keying!! Though, it only seems to work for blue screens and I have a green. I know this because I have a blue blanket (for my bed) and it made it invisible. I have to use stuff off the card though. But I'll get it to work. I hope you guys are able to help me further though, you guys have been great!

Edit: nd Nicholas, is your camera good at doing keying? If so, how much is it?

indi
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Posted: 26th Feb 2006 10:54
With Adobe Premier, I'm using the trial at the moment, and before I get it, I want to know if it's possible to do live keying efects.. So I could put me in front of a map of Canada and see me as I'm doing it. Is that possible with it?

keying only works best with quality higher then DV quality.
you can get a good key but you will have to be very carefull with factors and then the quality using DV wont be as sharp with higher levels.



think of after effects as a compositor like shake, you can composite still video etc. into a multimedia movie.

eg: text and shapes and video composited into a television add.

If no-one gives your an answer to a question you have asked, consider:- Is your question clear.- Did you ask nicely.- Are you showing any effort to solve the problem yourself 
Joh
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Posted: 26th Feb 2006 13:49
Ok. So you've got a blue keyer on your camera, thats cool. That gets you along a bit. At least your sisters will be able to see themselves behind something, which was the reason you were looking for a live keyer instead of software.

Try some experiments, just get some plain blue fabric hang it up. Jump around in front of camera and record. Drag that into Premiere and use the keyers to clean up. You may have some artifacting or fringing, but hey, its something at least. Start with that, and get workin and experimenting with the hardware/software combo. You are not going to get perfect stuff off the bat as there are many nuances to woriking with keys. Best to way is to dive into the deep end with what you have on hand. This will give you a better understanding of how things works and what you need to make things work.

If you do decide to get Premiere Pro and After Effects, look for the Adobe Production bundle. Considerable amount of savings. Do the test runs, take your time to decide what to go for.

"I dont think I like the idea of my little photon being touched up by a switched off proggy and finishing off without ever actually getting inside." - Fallout
dab
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Posted: 26th Feb 2006 22:37
Cool. thanks. As for the green screening effects with our dv camera, it actually works really good. If you want, I'll post an example. And besides, its better than the web camera I was using. lol.

A question on the After Effects though. What does the tracking thing do? YOu can set it to track a point through the movie, what does it do? Like what I can I use it for. I'm hoping its so I can add stuff like light sabers and stuff to the video, if so, I'll figure out how to use it.

Joh
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Posted: 26th Feb 2006 23:02
The tracker is to ...er. track the motion of the camera or a particular part of your movie. You can then apply the tracked motion data to other layers. So yeah, you can use it to add a lightsaber, background moving with subject. It'll save a lot of time compared to keyframing it manually. What version of AE are you using?

"I dont think I like the idea of my little photon being touched up by a switched off proggy and finishing off without ever actually getting inside." - Fallout
dab
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Posted: 27th Feb 2006 00:13
The latest trial version. I haven't bought anything yet...

dab
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Posted: 1st Mar 2006 05:49
Well, I have 5 days left on my trial

Joh
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Posted: 1st Mar 2006 06:30 Edited at: 1st Mar 2006 06:32
Have you checked out the stuff on AE at creativecow.net? If you havent check out some of the tutorials, they show some of the cool stuff thats easily done with AE. Some of them need extra plugins, skip those first.

ooh and have you played around with all the animated text stuff, and particle playground?

Well, if you want alot more control on keying and need lots of effects, yeah AE is really worth it. If you're not doing much of that, then you might just want to go with Premiere first.

also checkout http://www.debugmode.com/wax/

"I dont think I like the idea of my little photon being touched up by a switched off proggy and finishing off without ever actually getting inside." - Fallout
dab
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Posted: 1st Mar 2006 15:56
wow. Thanks for all the info, I'll check it out. You've been alot of help so far, thanks alot!!

dab
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2006 16:22
What's the difference between Adobe Premier Pro 2.0 and 7.0? It sounds like it's supposed to be better, but seems to be missing alot of plug-ins the trial version (2.0) I was using had....

David R
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2006 19:54
Quote: "What's the difference between Adobe Premier Pro 2.0 and 7.0? It sounds like it's supposed to be better, but seems to be missing alot of plug-ins the trial version (2.0) I was using had...."


Its very confusing, I know.

Basically, Adobe got so far into numbering (about 7) that for some bizarre reason, it decided to start again.

The earlier versions are extremely obvious (because they look really dated) so I'm pretty sure the one you want is 2.0 (I have Pro 1.5 and its bloody good - and a modern version too. So I assume 2.0 is just the latest version)

Note: If you get any version of Premiere, I highly recommend getting the pro version. The standard version has a heck of a lot less than the pro versions.

Quote: "Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all."
dab
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2006 05:49 Edited at: 3rd Mar 2006 05:56
Well, I have this version....


Though the trial was of the one that Nicholas Thompson showed a screenshot. Since I used that for 25 days, I like it... So, now I want that version. lol. Didn't think there would be much of a difference. But I can't drag the capture video screen onto the other monitor like I could.

(Forget the download thing.)

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Joh
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2006 15:16
Hmm that is confusing. It does say Premiere Pro 7.0 on your screenshot and its looks like the new ones. Unless the difference is that Premiere Pro 1.5 and 2.0 are Premiere Pro XP 1.5. Maybe they have 7.0 for other OS's again.

"I dont think I like the idea of my little photon being touched up by a switched off proggy and finishing off without ever actually getting inside." - Fallout
IanG
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2006 17:01
premiere pro is version 7
premiere pro 1.5 is version 7.5
and premiere pro 2 is version 8 iirc they do this because it was orignally called premiere(my school has version 6) but they changed it to premiere pro to make it seem more professional - just think you have final cut pro and i think the avid one has pro tacked on to the end of it as well

i currently have premiere pro 1.5, but i shall be upgrading in the near future hopefully, as i have a lot of school videos to edit (i'm doing yet another 'making of' video for my school, thet whole making of is becoming a bit of a joke)


amd athlon xp 2600+,1280mb,FX 5200 128mb,200gb,xp pro sp2
dab
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Posted: 4th Mar 2006 07:35
Okay, so basicly, I have the old version, that I thought was the new version?? lol that's great. I bet they don't do free upgrade either.

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