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Geek Culture / Buying a new PC - thoughts

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Reality Forgotten
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Posted: 1st Mar 2006 11:57
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Quote: "I'm an idiot? I didn't build them, they did... four computer science majors"
<-congrats they have proven they can read atleast four seperate times. ask them if they want a cookie?

Friend, Alienware Are good machines but hardly worth the money 20% Un-needed cost based on name. I built my machine and still cannot Complain abouth it. My machine runs like a raped ape! It's actualy Kinda of nice to say "hey I built this machine". sense of ownership

All I'm saying is at Lan parties....uhm I think my machine would Literaly hold it's own at these parties. and I'd send those over Inflated Alienware punks packing. My lan software/hardware is Exceptional have not had a problem yet. but who knows if I will?
Now I have an idea for people who buy those high end money
Waisting gaming computers. send me the money and I will buid you
A computer for alot cheaper and hell I'll even pay for shipping I Realy will even send you back the money that I didn't waste on Egotistical driven name brand assembly line companies.

Quote: "The Alienware's never have a problem. When I owned one, it never once crashed, I never had anything wear out or break (although I did upgrade the ram and the video card, not because of failure but because of age), and the cooling is flat-out unmatched. I'll gladly invite you to the next lan party we have and you can pit your home-built machine against those Alienwares.... $50 says you'll end up lagging them long before you see them glitch"


So because it has an alienware name stamp on it makes it second to none, and noone besides an alienware employee can make a great god like computer? Uhm last time I checked they were just people and not some seriphs floating around casting miracles. It doesn't take a degree to build an computer nor does it take some AAA company to tell you how to build it. all it takes is knowing what you want and how to utilise the hardware and software combinations to achieve that desired goal.

"I am ready to meet my Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter."
-- Winston Churchill
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Matt Rock
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Posted: 1st Mar 2006 18:05
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I'm sure there's people out there who can make computers that can compete, but to say Alienwares are crap like Joel does when he's obviously never even played around with one for any period of time, it's simply nauseating. Everyone always argues that they're far more expensive than other computers, but I Beg To Differ . Yeah, they're ALX costs $5,000, but that's for power users who need the most powerful cooling system around (I've yet to see a computer with better cooling than one of those), and their cheaper computers (starting at around $689) will hands-down outlast and out-perform any other pre-built computer on the market that I've seen, especially at that pricepoint. I went with a Vaio this time around because I'm a fan of Sony's gear and heard great things about them, and even though this machine smokes and has more features than a wild west burlesque show, I still wish I'd went with the Alienware I was eying at the time... same price (within about $50), but Alienware has better customer service, better warranties, and all the other stuff I've been arguing in this thread thus far.


"Hell is an Irish Pub where it's St. Paddy's day all year long" ~ Christopher, The Sopranos
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Dazzag
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Posted: 1st Mar 2006 19:46 Edited at: 1st Mar 2006 19:49
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I'm not saying Alienware are crap, I'm just saying they are not as good as everyone makes out. I mean what, they have something in them that no-one else has? Nope. They are just normally higher specced machines. But then most companies have higher specced machines somewhere. When it comes to laptops Dell are always better if you want extreme, mainly because for the last couple of years their highest model has a card in it that no-one else is allowed to use for like 6 months (that is better than anything else in any laptop anywhere - facts : search for reviews). Fair enough, not sure about the desktops, but I've never heard of anything in an Alienware that is better than any other place. Basically they are high spec PCs that come in styled cases (not every likes them, much like those stupid multi-coloured graphics cards ). Apart from the alien eyes in the BIOS there's nothing unique that I can think of.

Erm, a minute ago you were arguing that Alienware wasn't for poor people. Now it's the fact that they are not far more expensive? Eh? At the end of the day their average PC starts higher on the ladder than most PC suppliers, but any supplier worth their salt will have customisations that put the price through the roof. I thought Alienware were charging too much for their products (others did the same or better deal a fair bit cheaper), but overall it was slightly lower than what I was going to pay. At one point the Alienware looked a little cheap to be honest. At that point I stopped all ideas of multi-monitor custom paintjob goodness and bought a car instead

As to better customer service, then thats in your opinion, which is basically what you pointed out about someone's viewpoint on the desktop looks. And anyway, no-one gives a monkeys about the service here. If we can't sort it out then no-one can Joking obviously, but hardly anybody under 80 really gives a damn. Is a bit like smoking (well 10 years ago anyhows). Otherwise we would all be buying from shops (shudder) cos it's easier to take back etc.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
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JoelJ
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Posted: 1st Mar 2006 20:24 Edited at: 1st Mar 2006 20:26
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Quote: "I'm an idiot?"

no, they are.

Quote: "they did... four computer science majors"

so they can write software? maybe they should spend more time studying hardware if their computers crash so often...


This just in: White lab coats cause cancer in mice. Details comming soon.
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Milkman
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Posted: 1st Mar 2006 21:14 Edited at: 1st Mar 2006 21:16
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OK people, I actually spent the time to compare prices (I was bored ), and the results were very close. I matched every part to exactly what was on the alienware, apart from the case. I even gave you a link to every part, if you don't believe me



So if you don't care about the case, go custom built

formerly xMik
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Matt Rock
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Posted: 1st Mar 2006 21:28 Edited at: 1st Mar 2006 21:29
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See? About a $50 difference... it's like paying to have that computer built for you.

I didn't say Alienwares weren't for poor people, I was just saying what my professor said because it was the funniest thing I'd ever heard her say... I wasn't trying to make a statement other than how hardcore a lot of Alienware users are about their machines

Quote: "I mean what, they have something in them that no-one else has? "

Yes, they do in fact. This doesn't matter to some people, but to those who live in hot climates (which unfortunately isn't me ), cooling is a serious issue for them. I know plenty of people who live in places like Florida or southern California who have their computers crash constantly because of the heat. It's even happened to my Vaio on a few occasions last summer. And everyone who knows anything about Alienware PC's will tell you their the coolest (temperature-wise) machines around. Every article I've ever read about them in every magazine I've seen has said that. In fact, i've yet to see another computer that can match the Alienware's cooling. And I don't just mean their ALX machines (which obviously can't be beat (or afforded)), but their standard computers as well. The cases are clean and better organized than any home-built machine I've seen so far, and their internal temperatures get low, like, arctic low. And based on the specs above that XMilk graciously provided to us, you can't get nearly as cool inside as you can with the Aurora. Again, doesn't matter to some people, but to those of us who are up for 14 hours straight gaming in the middle of the summer, that cooling definitely comes in handy.


"Hell is an Irish Pub where it's St. Paddy's day all year long" ~ Christopher, The Sopranos
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Reality Forgotten
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Posted: 1st Mar 2006 22:46
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It's not only people in hot climates that face harsh temps on thier processor and boards. it's all about venting baby! 1200 is still alot to put on a pc even if you do build it yourself. I spent like 850ish for my system and that's from nothing to everything. so I will agree that people should build there own systems.

as for a case I got a nice gaming case with lights for around 30 bucks. And no you do not have to have the latest upgrades to keep up in the gaming community. you can compensate for alot of it so when you do decide to build your own you don't neet to shell out the clams for the super high tech 3 kajilliabillion gig processor this goes with most of the hardware on your computer. while i think almost all of you develope games in some fashion you still don't need a system that will run a stand alone auto-cad program. you dont need the bill gates ego of computers to keep up with the top dogs. as far as your processor goes if you have a 2.4 or better and your motherboard can hold 3 or 4 gig of ram you will be set for quite sometime before you have to get a new one. unless you use pentium and then you might as well get your credit card out and sell your first born child. Most game creation takes place ona system that can multitaks like a mo-fo. So i recommend AMD. as pentium has yet to develope somthing that can leave the AMD worl breathless. even AMD's lower rate chipsets are still better than pentiums mid chipsets. and AMD's high end makes pentium look like clownshoes. oh yeah one more thing.

I'm gonna get flamed bad for this, so readthis whole statement before you light your flamethrowers of death.

Emachines has the best costumer service...how do I know this? thats a good question. instead of spending the money to build my wife a computer to foul up I bought her an Emachine instead and save a few hundred buck. I have had her motherboard replaced once (out of warrenty) no questions asked by company I also obtained 3 lan cards while they tried to troubleshoot her system. and after the second time I got it back and it did not work they said they would replace it (even though it was out of warrenty) they eventaully ending up swapping my wifes hardrive toa new computer. So as far as customer support I think Emachines gets two awards:

1)best supprt
2)cheapest fair price (home 'er let the wife screw up)computer out there.

"I am ready to meet my Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter."
-- Winston Churchill
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Matt Rock
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2006 00:03
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I agree, e-machines does have good customer service. My youngest cousin just got one for christmas, had a problem right out of the box, and they fixed it pretty fast. They aren't ideal for gaming, but their decent for your average e-mail/e-bay/e-pron web surfer. Of course, if my little cousin (whose about 6 years old) is looking at pron I'll break his 6-year old legs lol


"Hell is an Irish Pub where it's St. Paddy's day all year long" ~ Christopher, The Sopranos
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JoelJ
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2006 00:04
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good job xMilk, but...
i just did this with this system.

made a pretty nice system.
Alienware = $3,380 (shipping not included)


Newegg system
$2583.94 (including shipping)


(OOo Spreadsheet included)

that's like... paying $800 for someone else to build your computer for you.


This just in: White lab coats cause cancer in mice. Details comming soon.

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Philip
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2006 00:11
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It would seem my request for helpful comments has been hijacked by a mob who want to argue about Alienware.

Shame on all of you! Bad humans! Now get back on topic pretty please.

Cheer if you like bears! Cheer if you like jam sandwiches!
Quote of the week: "... I started learning DBP while I was a Satellite Network Controller for the US Army Space Command ... "
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Represent
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2006 01:49
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But Alienware overclocks and pre-congifures your system. If you made it, it might not perform as well as if they made it. Also the GFX card is very different depending on the maker. Some are at 440mhz and others almost 500mhz core which makes a difference in performance.

SPECS:
AMD Athlon XP 3000+ @2.3ghz, 512MB RAM, x850xt @ 594/621
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Milkman
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2006 02:55 Edited at: 2nd Mar 2006 02:56
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Quote: "But Alienware overclocks and pre-congifures your system."

so overclock it yourself!

anyways, back on topic (sorry philip )
here are my suggestions for you:


formerly xMik
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2006 03:18 Edited at: 2nd Mar 2006 03:27
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I would more so recommend this system:

+ AMD x2, Opteron, or 64 3200+ (or higher)

+ Asus Xpress 200 Crossfire Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131584

+ 2 ATi Radeon x1600xt Crossfires ($300 for both - extremely fast)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102657
+ At least 1GB of DDR400 (try Corsair ValueRAM - really good)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145440
+ 600 watt power supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817163108

SPECS:
AMD Athlon XP 3000+ @2.3ghz, 512MB RAM, x850xt @ 594/621
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JoelJ
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2006 07:11 Edited at: 2nd Mar 2006 07:13
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how about, lets say i could hook you up with this used system here:

AMD Athlon XP 2600+ (1.92ghz)
768MB ram (256mb x3)
Radeon 9600 Pro w/256mb ram
DVD +/- R
Black Case w/ Window and Blue LEDs
500w PSU
and a brand new motherboard

all for $450 +shipping?



could ship it off as early as march 20th



AND btw:

if you're getting this system for gaming, DON'T get an AMD Athlon64 x2, or any dual core CPU. They're useless in games, i've heard that they actually slow down the games unless you turn one core off, because. UNLESS the games specifically state they support dual core CPUS.

just go with an A64 for now.


This just in: White lab coats cause cancer in mice. Details comming soon.
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Dazzag
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2006 10:53
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Quote: "If you made it, it might not perform as well as if they made it."
Chuckle. Good old brainwashing.... how difficult do you think it is? Hell, if you look up the exact specs they use and buy the same stuff, what makes you think you couldn't do anything?

As to water cooling etc, what you think no other company supplies that as an option? Starting to scrape the barrel here. How about no other company can make such sparkly cases/ glowing green eyes?

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
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Matt Rock
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2006 22:02
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Quote: "so overclock it yourself!"

Do you have any idea how many people burn out their processors trying to overclock without proper cooling? Lots. And it doesn't matter how smart you think you are... it happens to the brightest bulbs in the pack. At least with an Alienware or some other high end pre-built machine, you aren't taking that (very high) risk.

Quote: "As to water cooling etc, what you think no other company supplies that as an option? Starting to scrape the barrel here. How about no other company can make such sparkly cases/ glowing green eyes?"

Build a computer with the best cooling system you can configure. Now check its internal temperature and compare it to an Alienware. The results will boggle your mind. Have you ever even seen the inside of an Alienware case? They're specially designed for air flow and cooling management. I've never read an article that said anything shy of "Alienware's cooling is the best on the market."

This is the last post for me about the Alienware debate... if you want to argue with me, e-mail me, but stop taking over this thread. I was just offering my two cents and letting Phillip know what I thought about Alienwares and Vaios... that's it. I didn't mean to start a war and didn't know that by simply stating "I like Alienwares" that people would degrade their mental states and start in with mild flaming. If you don't like my opinion, good for you... I couldn't care any less. But people voicing their opinions is something you're just going to have to deal with in life, whether you agree with their ideas or not. Too bad.

I'm sorry about all that Phillip.


"Hell is an Irish Pub where it's St. Paddy's day all year long" ~ Christopher, The Sopranos
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Dazzag
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2006 01:16 Edited at: 3rd Mar 2006 01:18
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Quote: "Do you have any idea how many people burn out their processors trying to overclock without proper cooling?"
What these days? I mean most of them come with software to overclock them. Much more rarer these days.

Quote: "compare it to an Alienware. The results will boggle your mind"
So you are comparing Alienwares and Sonys. Ok. Whatever. But your opinion is nothing can touch Alienware, and back it up with comments like "boggle your mind". Fair enough, your opinion. The rest of us have the opinion that it isn't as good as a lot of people make out. And it's not as if you can't get these products elsewhere. Fully supplied systems with liquid cooling only available at Alienware? *cough* VoodooPC *cough* Savrow, to cough out a couple off the top of my head. And I've read plenty of articles that lower the godlike status that some people put on Alienware products.

Quote: "but stop taking over this thread"
Quote: "people would degrade their mental states and start in with mild flaming"

From what I remember this thread had some decent buying advice then you started with
Quote: "DON'T BUY A DELL!"
and followed that up with the wisely advice that they are not worth the money and are crap. Good reasoning there. Points listed were well thought out and discussed

And that is the last I am going to say here about some juvenile flame about how AWESOME Alienware is, and how CRAP Dell is. See ya.

BTW Philip, did you get anything in the end?

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
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Saikoro
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Posted: 4th Mar 2006 18:44 Edited at: 4th Mar 2006 18:54
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edit: not gonna promote crap
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Reality Forgotten
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Posted: 6th Mar 2006 14:09
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well now, if one can not see how helpfull this thread is in it's entirety than you need to buy a prepackaged machine. but just remember that anything that a pre-packaged machin comes with you cvan purchase seperately and in most cases it will be cheaper. as far as putting the thing together, everything has a manual and I'm sure you have installed hardware before so there is a step you can skip and software....uhm a no brainer. I doubt that very many machines out there require water cooling units. Most PCU with a good decent heatsink and fan will be between 3 and 6 degrees, also you should have two fans pulling air in and on pushing air out of your case preferably one in frint one on the side and then the one on your power supply. dont waiste the money on water cooling, it's simply not needed for even the most insane gamers since thier computers are built to play the latest. why over clock just spend the money and get a better processor. sure overclocking makes you look cool I suppose. another thing you should ask yourself "what is the main purpose of this PC?" if it's for games dont get all high tech just get the basic stuff, if it's for game dev then build it at a decent level but you will not need dual core you will not need water cooling. this is what I suggest:

1) AMD athlon 64 3700 clawhammer
2) gig ram ddr 400mhz
3) 250 gig hard drive (do you really need anything more than that? if you do you need to purge your database and clean some stuff out)
4)a case with a powersupply that hasa bottom loaded fan. and two other fan ports on the case. "give up the dream on water cooling"
5)k8 triton gigabit tech motherboard (this board is a good value and is loaded with all the stuff you need, if you feel like overclocking it has sofware for it it has a real time system monitor as well, wich is why I know what my CPU temp is at all times and my case temp as well)it has an x8 AGP slot and can max out with 3 gigs of ram. you dont need anymore than that since I doubt anyone here runs any serious CAD programs, and if you have 3 Kajillian modeling programs open, close some of them, you really don't need them open all the time and it will free up resources.

"I am ready to meet my Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter."
-- Winston Churchill
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Milkman
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Posted: 6th Mar 2006 21:06 Edited at: 6th Mar 2006 21:08
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Quote: "Most PCU with a good decent heatsink and fan will be between 3 and 6 degrees,"

what?
I hope that was a typo...

but agreed, water cooling is [for the most part] unnecessary.

formerly xMik
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Posted: 7th Mar 2006 20:51
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nope in celsius not fahrenheit. it would be about 42 in fahrenheit.
This is what my processor runs at. and yes my PC is on all the time.

good venting+decent fan/heatsink/lube= low CPU temp
combine this with two system fans and your machine should have penguins ice skating inside of it.

"I am ready to meet my Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter."
-- Winston Churchill
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