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DarkBASIC Discussion / Why is Dark Basic still being sold?

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QuothTheRaven
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Posted: 7th Mar 2006 05:33
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This isn't meant to be a flame thread or even an angry one. It's just a simple question that I'm basing off of other software models. Dark Basic is the only program that I can name off the top of my head that actually sells the older version of the software as a complete product. I do not understand this. When a new version of Flash, 3ds max, Maya, Gile[s], Cartography Shop, well anything really...comes out, the software is upgraded. I can't imagine Macromedia selling Flash 3 retail anywhere.

There are several reasons why I think selling DBC and DBP separately doesn't make any sense. First off, it divides the community. How many questions in the DBC forums go unanswered because more experienced users who use DBP don't ever read the DBC forums? It may not be a lot, but it's something to consider. Could you imagine if the 3ds max forum had an old and a new section? It would divide your chances of getting helped in half.

Secondly, DBP can do everything DBC can. It's not like DBC offers something unique. I have read the "it's better for beginners" advertisement, but having used both DBP and DBC, I can say that using DBP was a godsend compared to DBC. Everything made more sense, the editor looked like an actual editor, there was better documentation...for a beginner I would have loved to have DBP personally. A beginner using DBP can still follow a beginner's tutorial without having to learn advanced commands. If Dark Basic software is going to be treated as a professional software, then it only makes sense to offer the professional version.

As for the price, we're not talking about Gmax versus 3ds max here. $50 and $90 aren't exactly far apart. I mean look at this page: http://darkbasicpro.thegamecreators.com/?f=compare. It's basically saying, at least to me, "look at how little you can do with our software!" It's not saying "this is great for beginners because there's not a lot of stuff you have to worry about." It's a difference of $30, which seems extremely small for the functionality gap. If DBC were sold for $30 then it would be a little more understandable.

This is all my opinion only, I don't know how other people feel. When I see DBC I hear it say "Come buy a language that will never receive upgrades or bug fixes and that lacks a great deal of important functionality expected in a modern gaming / programming era."

I'm sure there are reasons why DBC is still being advertised and sold, but I just feel like DBP should be the only language available from the site. It would help unify the community, create a much larger support structure, and help make the language seem more professional overall.

That is all. Thank you for listening.

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Mattman
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Posted: 7th Mar 2006 05:46
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A lot more kids buy Classic. I remember when it took me forever before I could buy it.

Why make sense when you could make brownies?
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General Sephiro
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Posted: 7th Mar 2006 06:00 Edited at: 7th Mar 2006 06:01
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RAWRRRRR me being a hard core DBC supporter!
I baught it down in PC World, I even seen DBP but regardless i went ahead and baught DBC

I'm considering trying DBP now aint too sure though..., might finish DF2 first Or i could just go ahead and learn to use OGRE heh

Back on topic:
DBC is easy to use, I havn't tried DBP before but I couldn't get one of it's games working on my computer thats why i never baught it, all DBC games have worked on all my old computers thats why i use it ^-^


http://www.hybridwolves.co.uk
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Raven
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Posted: 7th Mar 2006 06:16
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If nothing has changed over the last 6months then the reason both The 3D Game Maker and Dark Basic Standard are still being sold is simple..

They make more money than any of the other products, in-fact oddly enough T3DGM is still TGC's best selling product.

Of course this might've changed, but that's the reason 6months back.

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Grog Grueslayer
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Posted: 7th Mar 2006 06:56
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Classic should stay because it's cheaper than Pro. There are some people that would get Classic first simply because the price of Pro is too high in their opinion.


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Me!
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Posted: 7th Mar 2006 10:04 Edited at: 7th Mar 2006 10:06
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thats rather like asking why Calgari sell both Gamespace and Truespace, in this case Dark Basic classic equates to Gamespace and Dark Basic Pro is the Truespace of the DB world, they are complimentary, not mutualy exclusive, Pro needs the latest (and preferably high end) machines to strut it`s stuff, its the cutting edge games basic, classic is the legacy basic for those that want to code for older machines with lower spec cards, win 98, dx 8.1 etc, they don`t own common ground, want to make code that runs on anything?, get classic, want to play with shaders, physics etc and push the limits, get Pro.



Windows: 32 bit extension/graphical shell for a 16bit patch to an 8bit OS originally coded for a 4bit CPU, written by a 2bit company that can't stand 1bit of competition, now available in 64bits.
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 7th Mar 2006 11:39
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We are still selling it because of the simple fact that it still sells very well. $30 is a big difference to some people, and you can pick it up at retail for a lot less than the RRP we sell it for (although not bundled with anything else). The entry requirements are lower, the compatibility higher and for certain projects it is faster due to its run-time nature.

Macromedia *force* you to upgrade by obsoleting versions every 12 months.
We give you the choice.

Bite my shiny metal ass
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 7th Mar 2006 13:56
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Dark Basic Classic runs well on lower systems and is cheaper than DBP (As Rich said) I originally bought DBC when I was running a 300mhz PC, the DBP demo didn't work for me, not everyone can afford the best, plus DBP and DBC are basically two differant prgrams in a sense, like Cartography shop and 3D world studio, and are differantly priced its not like Autodesk won't sell 3DS Max 5 when they can sell 3DS Max 8, which is the equivalent of DBP version 5 being sold instead of 6. If 3DS max made a complete sudden change that would sell at a higher price, it would be sold seperately.

Plus the fact still having DBC is good business

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hyrichter
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Posted: 7th Mar 2006 15:44
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I bought DBC 2 years ago from Amazon because it was only $25 there, and Pro was $90. Amazingly, the version from Amazon also came with the enhancement pack. I thought about buying pro at the time, but figured classic would do what I wanted, and it did. Plus I had a crappy video card, and the demos I saw people write in DBP just didn't work well on my system. I've since bought the online version of DBP (and a new video card), but haven't had much time to play around with it.


Do not click the red button
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tatts
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Posted: 8th Mar 2006 16:10
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Darkbaisc classic is known to be more stable is'nt it? I have both versions and even though classic is older it still looks good and does have darkedit to make the interface more usable. dbpro is good but does have alot of problems at times. And as far as getting with times, I think blitzBasic still runs off DX version 7, and it still sells.
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GatorHex
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Posted: 8th Mar 2006 16:21
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Sure other companies do it

MS Works & MS Office

Its all about budget and the number of features you need.
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MartinS
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Posted: 8th Mar 2006 19:30
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@Raven
How do ou know T3DGM is TGC's top selling product?

P.S. I kinda see what you mean, though... I've got it and I've made some good-enough quality games in about 20 seconds... literally.

[url=www.mozilla.com/firefox][/url]
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re faze
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Posted: 10th Mar 2006 21:32 Edited at: 10th Mar 2006 21:34
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its cheaper, complete and finalized, and the help files are better so it will prep you for dbpro. I bought both and for once i think that they were both money well spent.
[edit]
the examples are much better too, all of the examples show practical uses for commands, the dbp examples are crap, sometimes for dbp projects i look to the dbc help because its so in depth.

Dont code slowly be SWIFT about it!
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Whong
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Posted: 12th Mar 2006 16:56
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I began with DBC, checked DBP also, but found DBC a lot easier! The help files are way better than in DBP. For kids or yougsters DBC is the gate to programming, once you learn that pretty well, it's good to try DBP. Anyways DBC and Pro are great, pretty simple and easy to learn!
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DB newbie
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Posted: 12th Mar 2006 17:27
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DBC i think is eaiser but something not everyone likes is how dark it is so Darkedit is ideal fo rit.

Check out my site!(unfinished)
http://www.freewebs.com/dbnewbie/
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The Nerd
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Posted: 12th Mar 2006 19:26 Edited at: 12th Mar 2006 19:28
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Quote: "I began with DBC, checked DBP also, but found DBC a lot easier!"


Quote: "DBC i think is eaiser"

I just think the "DBC is easier than DBPRO" is a lie... I mean... What should be easier in DBC than in DBPRO?...

Something like the "turn object left/right" command dosn't exist in dbc... So to rotate an object in dbc you would requeire to program more than one line to make it work. Or atleast work a bit more

saying that "DBPRO got more advanced features that are hard to use"... Sure... But then why just don't leave those features until you've learned the basics?

-The Nerd

Particle-Engine-SpaceBattle-Shootout
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Dodic
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Posted: 12th Mar 2006 20:59
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Turn object left command does exist in dbc ...

Move object left/right doesnt.

Currently working on (trying) making a new 3d engine for/within dark basic classic out of basic 2d commands, with vertex edit supported.
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nojbox87
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Posted: 12th Mar 2006 22:37 Edited at: 13th Mar 2006 23:16
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well as TDK Man says on his website
Quote: " I have not yet exceeded the capabilities of Classic, so until I do, I'll stick with it!"

and if he hasnt then im not even close

I am a Christian and I know that God loves me. That is what makes my life so great!
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GatorHex
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Posted: 13th Mar 2006 16:52
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Quote: "just think the "DBC is easier than DBPRO" is a lie... I mean... What should be easier in DBC than in DBPRO?... "


You have to do a lot of work setting your 3D objects up. If you move a game from DB to DBP it will make u jump up and down in anger because non of your objects look nice anymore! The backdrop feature is dropped too which gives u even more headaches
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Underworld 1020
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Posted: 13th Mar 2006 20:25 Edited at: 13th Mar 2006 20:28
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note: I only read up to Richard Davey's fist post.

Back like two years ago, when I bought DBC it was already outdated. DBPro already existed and I didn't even know it. I bought DBC not knowing that for a few more bucks I could have gotten something way better. I think that if you're going to still sell DBC, then put an ad for DBPro on the back of the DBC boxed version.

note: That was back 2 years ago, I'm not sure if things have changed since then.

EDIT: I'm not sure I agree with DBC being easier, I spent more time trying to get around the broken commands, then actually creating things.



Check Out My Site Here: http://www.freewebs.com/underworld1020/
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Sonic 91 Software
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Posted: 14th Mar 2006 13:00
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Thank you, Mr Davey. I was scrolling down this thread and I was beginning to wonder how long it would be before the mods stepped in!

I am a Christian and I know that God loves me. That is what makes my life so great!
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Dodic
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Posted: 15th Mar 2006 18:45
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Well it is simply another, cheaper version, with much less features so it is rightfully another title, so i guess it is ok to sell it seperatly.

Currently working on (trying) making a new 3d engine for/within dark basic classic out of basic 2d commands, with vertex edit supported.
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MartinS
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Posted: 16th Mar 2006 06:12
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I agree with Dodic. I guess you could call it a DarkBASIC Professional Lite version - it doesn't have as many features, and it's cheaper. If you want something that'll speed up your game developing though, spring for professional!

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nojbox87
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Posted: 16th Mar 2006 10:45
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However if u want good games use either. and i have never used DBP so correct me if im wrong but as DBC has less features there is more problemn solving and maths and therefore it is more useful for learning as the key to programming is problem solving.

I am a Christian and I know that God loves me. That is what makes my life so great!
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Sonic 91 Software
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Posted: 16th Mar 2006 15:53
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I've heard that Pro is easier to use, but as I have learned Classic, I'll stick with it, as I know Pro has different commands to Classic. Some new commands, but some old ones have been changed. If I ever wanted to make something HUGE, I may upgrade to Pro, but at the moment, I have nearly 10 projects unfinished, some barely even started, but I really should knuckle down and get cracking on at least some of them. Why don't I set myself a schedule to finish one in a certain amount of days? I've got nothing beter to do. Has anyone else programmed to a schedule?

I am a Christian and I know that God loves me. That is what makes my life so great!
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Sonic 91 Software
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Posted: 16th Mar 2006 15:53
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I've heard that Pro is easier to use, but as I have learned Classic, I'll stick with it, as I know Pro has different commands to Classic. Some new commands, but some old ones have been changed. If I ever wanted to make something HUGE, I may upgrade to Pro, but at the moment, I have nearly 10 projects unfinished, some barely even started, but I really should knuckle down and get cracking on at least some of them. Why don't I set myself a schedule to finish one in a certain amount of days? I've got nothing better to do. Has anyone else programmed to a schedule?

I am a Christian and I know that God loves me. That is what makes my life so great!
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MartinS
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Posted: 16th Mar 2006 15:59
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I wish I had. I've already paid over $700 on my website - $500 on FrontPage and $200 on everything else. Plus I still need to register a company...

I really hope I can get enough decent games on the site to get my money back.

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Sonic 91 Software
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Posted: 16th Mar 2006 16:05
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Is it just me, or has my previous message shown up twice?

I am a Christian and I know that God loves me. That is what makes my life so great!
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Sonic 91 Software
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Posted: 16th Mar 2006 16:06
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P.S. Games 2 Live, oh dear! Biting off more than you can chew, eh?

I am a Christian and I know that God loves me. That is what makes my life so great!
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MartinS
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Posted: 16th Mar 2006 16:47
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Yes, and too fast!

But I know it'll eventually work out - I'm christian too.

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Sonic 91 Software
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Posted: 17th Mar 2006 11:28
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Glad to hear it, games 2 live, i hope everything works out great for you. and everyone!

I am a Christian and I know that God loves me. That is what makes my life so great!
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MartinS
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Posted: 17th Mar 2006 11:41 Edited at: 17th Mar 2006 11:44
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Thanks, Sonic 91 Software!

All the best,

Martin

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Sonic 91 Software
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Posted: 17th Mar 2006 11:51
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No problem.

I am a Christian and I know that God loves me. That is what makes my life so great!
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