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Geek Culture / [LOCKED] Life on the Whole

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Zotoaster
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Joined: 20th Dec 2004
Location: Scotland
Posted: 19th Mar 2006 02:57
Life is one of the things that really interests me... so I just wanted to get you opinion on things!

I think that we were all designed, I know it seems silly, but what are the chances of something to perfect to suit it's environment so well be done by coinsidence? Everything just seems to fit so perfectly, someone must've said "there's no point in living if you can't see or hear, so we'll just put some eyes here, and some ears here", if noone said that, what are the chances of us having these little machines built into us, and such complex brains, that not even the est scientists and psychologysts can understand, so how can an accident create it?

That's just my opinion, what's yours?

Chily Dog
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Location: U.S.A.
Posted: 19th Mar 2006 03:33
Hmmmmm,

It's all about evolution. Life on this plant was started by a lighting strike that began all of engery cycles in life we know today, and everything just evolved up from there. I'm no ecologist, but I know that in an undiscovered environment, everything starts simple, and them more advanced organims begin to form. The reason everything "fits" together so nicly is beacuse all the organisms on the plant have a niche, something that helps them survive, and when two organisms share a niche in the same place, they fight until only one organism is left.
SageTech
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Joined: 3rd Dec 2004
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posted: 19th Mar 2006 03:36
This is destined for flambait, but as long as its open i guess ill share my view.

The "chance" for these "machines" being built into us by means of natural seletion, evolution, and many more factors is more pluasible then you may think. For instance, there have you ever heard of the word "adaptation"? If so then youll be fully aware of the fact that over time, an organism can mutate, or atleast have the instince, to change something about itself. Given the time of the earths age, (around 4 billion years via uranium testing) then imagine the many mutations that could occur.

Another thing to consider is the rapid mutations viruses can go thru.
If a virus needs a new host, it has to be compatible to them, and thefore must mutate to be able to survive in them. A good example of this is the chicken flu that has recently been manifesting itself in China.

Now lets consider "inteligent design". Religion teaches us, usually thru the bible, that god created us, the earth, and the entire universe, in seven days (literal or not literal "days" depends on the reader). However, in the bible a passage mentions that god created "the two great lights(sun and moon) and the stars. As ancient man understood it, we were in the center of the universe, the "two great lights" were in orbit around us, and the stars even further out from us. We know now this not the case, and the stars hold their own importance, just as much as our sun. But with ancient man, this is not comprehendible, so therefore the bible seems to be in the view of a human writer, which then leads to questions of its authenticity of being devinly inspired. Another error in the bible is the story of the tower of babel, which says that when god was angry with its creaters, he confused there languages, makin some speak one language, and the other speak an other language. We know this is not true, language is created by humans, English is not devinly inspired, nor is any other language, thefore, the bible is wrong on that end as well.

In the end though, you can give someone all the evidence they want. but thell decide what is right in the end. I myself used to be a christian, untill i actully decided to question the great quantities of criticism toward evolution by my church. Its amazing how much they were wrong about, obviously whatever differed from there opinnion was wrong.

If you're so smart, why are you reading my post?
nuclear glory
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Posted: 19th Mar 2006 04:15 Edited at: 19th Mar 2006 04:26
Here's what I know for certain:

Outward symmetry is a mathematical improbability when dealing with a mutation.

Functional design (that stands) happening accidentally (a computer program for instance) is a mathematical improbability.

Scientific law states that all energy is transferred (moving around) and never created. This would leave one pondering if there was something beyond physics capable of truly "creating" energy that's been in motion since.

e = mc^2
(a small amount of mass turns into a lot of energy, turned around means that a lot of energy is required to make a small amount of mass)

So, using math and law, I can assume there's something that set everything into motion. It leaves me wondering the reasons behind why Einstein believed in the existence of a God.

I don't deal with estimations or guesswork. If anyone finds a mathematical error or contradictory scientific law with any of what I've said above, please feel free to correct me.

edit:
I also assume this thread will quickly get out of hand. But when there's a theological question involving mathematics or factual science I can't help but be completely curious. I try to remain objective at all times. I do not have a religious affiliation. I try to keep things simple. Easier to work with that way.

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Manticore Night
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Joined: 23rd Oct 2003
Location: Ouinnipeg
Posted: 19th Mar 2006 04:25
Quote: "mutations"
I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure a mutation is not what you are talking about. I think what your talking about is adaptions. Because I think that mutations are basically a mistake that usually happens in only one organism and serves no useful pourpose.

[center]It's amazing how much TV has raised us. (Bart Simpson)

He's back! With 20% less intelligence!
nuclear glory
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Posted: 19th Mar 2006 04:28 Edited at: 19th Mar 2006 04:29
I was not implying a link to evolution. Just stating a fact about mutations. Sorry if that got confused.

Yes, they are generally useless.

Powerful Collision DLL for DBPro and DBC: http://www.nuclearglory.com
Manticore Night
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Posted: 19th Mar 2006 04:29
I was talking to Sage Tech, yours lost me at the second sentance.

[center]It's amazing how much TV has raised us. (Bart Simpson)

He's back! With 20% less intelligence!
nuclear glory
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Posted: 19th Mar 2006 04:31
LOL, gotya. Sorry about that.

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SageTech
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Location: Orlando, Florida
Posted: 19th Mar 2006 04:43
What i meant was the varaitions of genes by mutation. Sorry, im not very good with explaining myself

If you're so smart, why are you reading my post?
re faze
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Location: The shores of hell.
Posted: 19th Mar 2006 04:47
suppose were all in a game like the sims and we are all being played right now?

nuclear glory
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Posted: 19th Mar 2006 04:48 Edited at: 19th Mar 2006 04:50
I have a quick question. Wouldn't a mutation (error) factor in the genes multiply over time? I think this is part of the reason for birth defects (from like incest) the aplified error gets out of control. If this is the case, can't we deduct that the genes started as "almost perfect" and have been degrading since?

It's something I've pondered quite a bit. Maybe someone can throw some hardcore science my way and get me thinking about it all again.

Apologies if I'm propelling something that'll get out of control. I just gotta crunch the numbers. (yum)

Powerful Collision DLL for DBPro and DBC: http://www.nuclearglory.com
CattleRustler
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Posted: 19th Mar 2006 05:05
Quote: "what are the chances of something to perfect to suit it's environment so well be done by coinsidence? "


its called evolution.

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Jeku
Moderator
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Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 19th Mar 2006 05:07
Sorry guys, under the new rules we can't be discussing intelligent design vs. accidental coincidence

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