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FPSC Classic Models and Media / Model pack 2 questions

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Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 24th Mar 2006 03:39
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Dont some of these models seem like community models...


like the security camera


someone made that before i know it cause ive had it on my computer this entire time...

it just looks like a lot of poo....


and how come it came with no guns???


but i really wanna know why they would charge 20$ for it

its more of a 10$ thing dont you guys think

Nunticaelitusphobia---im scuurrred of the internet
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Maeko
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Posted: 24th Mar 2006 05:28
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I think that it's worth the 20$ because of all the entities. I wish I got it before bond1 decided it should be in the 2nd model pack because I heard it was free..
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bond1
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Posted: 24th Mar 2006 08:45 Edited at: 24th Mar 2006 08:47
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Bloodeath, I created Model Pack 2, and I also created the security camera which I offered for free a while ago. I included it along with Model Pack 2 for sheer convenience. There are plenty of other models in the pack and I just thought it would be nice to lump it with everything else. The original post has long been buried in the forums.

I'm sorry that you don't think it is worth the $20, and you're certainly entitled to your opinion. But I think if you look around the internet for game-ready model collections, you won't find anything even remotely comparable to what TGC is offering at their price point. Especially considering the fact that you can use these royalty free in commercial projects.

Just to give a little insight into what goes into creating a collection of models: I spent weeks with my digital camera capturing reference photos for all the models. Then came the time-consuming task of cleaning up and preparing these photos for use as textures, as well as creating some textures of my own totally from scratch.

Then I had to model the geomety for each entity, simple objects could be done in 15 minutes, more complicated objects took hours, and the animated models took extra time. Modelling and texturing a human head is a daunting task on its own, but creating and rigging an entire character and blending nearly 2 minutes worth of mocap data takes lots of patience and time.

All in all, I spent a good several months of time to create this. I realize it won't be to everyone's taste, but I tried hard to include a good variety of professional looking models.

Please don't take this the wrong way. I recall years ago when I started modelling that there was a serious lack of game-ready models availabe for indie game developers. And the few that were available were extremely overpriced.


I realize that because these are my own models that I'm biased, but I just don't think you'll be able to find anything comparable to what TGC is offering, either in quantity or quality for the price.

And if these models aren't your cup of tea, perhaps the next model pack will have exactly what you're after!

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Van B
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Posted: 24th Mar 2006 12:22
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Ok, new board rule.

Anyone who can't put a model pack 2 query in the appropriate section get's a newbie slap.

How tiresome do you people think this is?, double it.


Van-B

Put away, those fiery biscuits!
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Mr Flowerkohl
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Posted: 24th Mar 2006 12:48
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Hi Bond1 !

Just wondering if you would model on demand !
I am very impressed of your new modelpack and ive got
some ideas of models i need for my game. i try to get all
out of FPSC and i really want to create a commercial
style game.

Have a nice day

yeah...thats the ticket !
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FredP
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Posted: 24th Mar 2006 12:58
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Model Pack 1 is worth it.while I would have loved to see some weapons the other stuff is great and well worth the money I spent...you know how hard it is to find a sink?
I just checked out the animated searchlight...sweet.While there are some models already FPSC ready these are made by the people who made the game so you know they work.There are not a lot of animated models out there and some of this stuff you can't find anywhere else.Thanks to the folks at TGC.They did a heck of a job.

FLA
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KeithC
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Posted: 24th Mar 2006 15:21 Edited at: 24th Mar 2006 15:24
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Sorry, double post.



Ozark Games
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KeithC
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Posted: 24th Mar 2006 15:23
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I pretty much back up what Bond has said 100%. The characters (with animation) alone would fetch $20 anywhere else. Add to that the number of entities (including some that are animated), and Bond1 could have easily sold it to another Indy crowd (or through vendors, such as Turbosquid) for double what he/TGC is asking. Furthermore, these models are ready to go into FPSCreator (which also takes time). Honestly, from some of the comments I have heard from a select few around here; I wouldn't be surprised if the good modelers (such as Bond1) decide that it's just not worth it to bring things to the FPSC community anymore.

To give you an example of what I am talking about look at this. That pack includes 14 models with a decent amount of texture maps to make a good variety of models. It costs $350.00, and is from a seasoned vendor; meaning they have no problem selling their stuff....and it isn't FPSCreator-ready. That site also takes 40% commission (some sites take more). That is the kind of money Bond1 could be making; instead he/TGC has asked for a mere $20 for all the work he has done. Take a look around the link I just gave, and you'll get a better perspective (and appreciation) for all that goes into 3D art. Thanks for making all the great work, Bond...keep it up.

-Keith



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bond1
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Posted: 25th Mar 2006 08:09 Edited at: 25th Mar 2006 08:10
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Thanks Keith, I checked out the link. $350 for a bunch of...CRATES?! A perfect example of what I was referring to. Hmmmm...

It is my pleasure to make models for the FPSC community, and its developers. I love FPS Creator, especially for a non-programmer like me it lets me realize my own games, while concentrating on the art side of things. And there is actually quite a bit of power under the hood if you want to get your hands dirty. So I definitely intend on making more 3d content, as long as "real-life" permits...

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KeithC
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Posted: 25th Mar 2006 14:12 Edited at: 25th Mar 2006 14:14
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That's good to hear, Bond. I thought those crates were a bit (quite a bit, actually) overpriced as well; however I'd be willing to bet if you bought directly from the artist, it would cost less. Most of those guys there (and I don't blame them) increase the price of their work, above the original asking price in order to come close to their original asking price (making up for that 40% commission). I'm not a programmer either (that's someone else's job ), I'm working my way up to your experience level as an artist. I've only been doing this for @1.5 years (less as a 3D artist; I started out in 2D), but I've been picking things up pretty quickly. The next step for me is animation, followed by Character creation/animation.

I've recently began playing with making levels myself (I've been concentrating on the content creation more), and it is pretty fun (aside form the usual bugs).

I think that the people that are making negative comments here a far and few between; most of the people here appreciate what you, I, and the rest of the contributors do here. I know I won't let a few "bad apples" spoil it for everyone else. Those who can't/don't do art, have contributed other things (like Bullshock, Sinistar, Tshcwartz, and Dodic); and I know that people really appreciate that as well (I know I do).

-Keith



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bond1
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Posted: 25th Mar 2006 14:54 Edited at: 25th Mar 2006 15:00
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You're probably right about that...

Yes this 3d modelling stuff is addictive, isn't it? Once I was bitten by the "3d bug" I just had to learn all I could about it. I pretty much lived and breathed everything 3d. Still do. And I try and learn something new all the time.

I've spent more money on books and training DVD's than I want to think about. No kidding, I still pretty much fall asleep every night reading some type of book on 3d or game art.

While I know Photoshop inside and out when it comes to editing photos, I'm a novice when it comes to creating game textures from scratch. Most of my models are textured from actual photographs that have been edited and cleaned up in photoshop. But this is changing, for a while now I've been reading and learning all I can about game texturing, and I'm getting fairly proficient at creating realistic textures totally within photoshop, it's turning out to be a great skill to have, and is making things much easier, especially when combined with good "real" photos.

Anyway, sorry to ramble on...

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xplosys
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Posted: 25th Mar 2006 18:10
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Hail Bond.... exactly what I was looking for. Modern models.

Bought it yesterday.....can't wait!

Crazy Grandpa
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SOTSOG GameCreators
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Posted: 25th Mar 2006 23:04
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FANTASTIC MODELS!!!! thankyou keep it up.

"Never figure on your poultry enterprise until the proccess of inqubation has been throughly realized."
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KeithC
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Posted: 26th Mar 2006 00:35
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I'm pretty much the opposite when it comes to texturing. I have pretty much always made my textures from scratch, and I am now dabbling in using photos as textures.

-Keith



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Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 26th Mar 2006 02:55
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Look i know i know...lots of work...i know...

but i was more curious as to why there werent more weapons...
i dunno...im gonna buy mp2...just not right now


i wasnt trying to diss your work bond
you did a nice job
its just im a cheap white person
2 model packs cost like 90% of the price of the program is kind of rediculous


plus i didnt know you did it bond
i think i have bunches of your work on my cp...just your "free" stuff lol
and i can tell you why those models are 350
in my eyes they look hella high res...and in fpsc i have like great textures for segments and stuff but they come out all crappy
thats why i dont wanna pay 20$ for stuff that wont look Really good
but then again i wont pay 350 for crates...unless i was an AAA company....but those models still look killer to me...

so do yours bond...just im saying... 20$ just seems a little high for people like me... like i woulda payed more if it had characters and weapons
but the scientists
===================
are they the same model
just textured over?
cause thats what it looks like...if so... thats horrible laziness...
im saying if you can do that much work into the static entitys...why not take the scientist model and rip him appart..like litterly butcher him...*lol* instead of splashing blood on him...gash his leg...stick an axe out of his head...make one of his arms ripped off and actually stabbed thru his chest


thats why im curious.....
===============================

and Van B .......please dont noob slap me (again...my apologys if it wasnt you who slapped me before...but it wasnt fun ><

but seriously dont take this as hate towards your models bond...cause theyre really nice...just kind of expansive for me lol

but ill end up buying it

Sincerly,
Bloodeath

Nunticaelitusphobia---im scuurrred of the internet
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brummel
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Posted: 27th Mar 2006 00:35
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I will defenitly buy it, in fact its worth more than 20$. I just wish that it included some new weapons too...
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bond1
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Posted: 27th Mar 2006 01:14 Edited at: 27th Mar 2006 01:35
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Quote: "but the scientists
===================
are they the same model
just textured over?
cause thats what it looks like...if so... thats horrible laziness..."


Jeez, careful what you say there...you assume that zero work goes into making a texture? The texture is what defines most of the "look" of a model. It can make or break it.

FACT: All of the "civilian" models in Half-Life 2 are the SAME MODEL. Just different textures. I wouldn't call it laziness. It's called being resourceful and optimizing for use in a REAL-TIME engine.

FACT: All the swat characters from Model Pack 1 use the same model, just different textures.

A lot of care went into creating that zombie texture, dismissing it as "horrible laziness" is really insulting. Plus, it took quite a bit of inginuity to attach the cleavers to the hands...simply linking them didn't work. They each required their own physique modifier in 3ds max. And the cleavers are modelled, so the model actually IS different.

The texture sizes I use are as high-res as anything you will see in a game today. Most are 512x512, and some are even 1024x1024. So I still don't buy that argument that is why those crates on Turbosquid are so expensive.

Anyway, I'm done...again, not trying to carry on an argument, just trying to give insight on how games are made, I know quite alot about game art, and what appears to be "laziness" is actually more about "optimization".

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ak470000
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Posted: 27th Mar 2006 01:47
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Quote: "instead of splashing blood on him...gash his leg...stick an axe out of his head..."
I hope no one thinks texturing is a simple job that can be done in a couple of minutes. Some people on this board may wave the mouse around with a bright-red paintbrush inside Photoshop and call it blood, but does it ever look convincing? Texturing is where wrinkles, shading, bumps, hair, dirt, freckles, and countless other things come from. A lot of people on this board are texture artists before 3D artists and as a student who has been studying Graphic Design and Computer Art for three years at a college level, its a slap in the face to assume otherwise.
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FredP
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Posted: 27th Mar 2006 01:50
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Texturing is a pain in the backside.

FLA
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SpyDaniel
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Posted: 27th Mar 2006 01:56
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Computer art is some thing I should go learn in college next year. Id be a lot happier when I can make decent textures, and not just uvw map a lot of textures set on one image.
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Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 27th Mar 2006 02:07
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Quote: "I will defenitly buy it, in fact its worth more than 20$. I just wish that it included some new weapons too... "

thats my position... but i dont think its worth more tan 20$


Quote: "FACT: All the swat characters from Model Pack 1 use the same model, just different textures."

i dont own model pack 1 either but soon lol



Quote: "I hope no one thinks texturing is a simple job that can be done in a couple of minutes. Some people on this board may wave the mouse around with a bright-red paintbrush inside Photoshop and call it blood, but does it ever look convincing? Texturing is where wrinkles, shading, bumps, hair, dirt, freckles, and countless other things come from. A lot of people on this board are texture artists before 3D artists and as a student who has been studying Graphic Design and Computer Art for three years at a college level, its a slap in the face to assume otherwise"



well i agree...i texture...i just need an unwrapper...and i could give back to the community but anyways back on subject

Look 3d texturing is hard

but blood splashing is VERY VERY simple all you need is

-----------------------------------
1. nail polish
2. Photo shop 7+
3. White paper
4. a digital camera and usb cord OR scanner
5. assorted brushes, pencils, anything you can fling nail polish off of.


step 1: get paper
step 2: get nail polish
step 3: go outside or where theres ALOT of light
step 4: open nail polish
step 5: fling as much as wanted on paper... try different objects to fling off of it gives it a different effect.
step 6: after done getting desired amount of blood on paper...take a picture
step 7: upload picture...
step 8: go into paint shop 7+ hit EDIT>MAKE PAINT BRUSH
or it should say somthing like that (make sure everything but blood is white IE the paper)
step 9: open a new blank texture in PsP 7+
step 10: take your saved paint brush and smack it on the new texture


there you go

10 easy steps to create blood effects


and by the way
it doesnt matter the color of the nail polish
and i used nail polish for this example is cause its cheaper

so blood textureing isnt that hard guys

if i had a dds unpacker id be making killer effects on my characters lol

and in the attachment is a result a friend got doing this.

Nunticaelitusphobia---im scuurrred of the internet

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bond1
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Posted: 27th Mar 2006 02:24 Edited at: 27th Mar 2006 06:37
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Yep makings brushes can be fun, not hard to do , but it does take some time, and that's just the technical side of it. Then comes the artistic side. You can't just start waving those brushes around randomly and hope it looks good...you have to think where the blood originated from, where it would likely run and soak into clothes, etc. Then you have start playing around with layer blending modes to make it look like the blood is soaking in, rather than magically floating on top, especially for clothing material.

If you look close at my zombie texture you will notice gashes on the face, blood running down from the eye sockets, blood soaked around the neck and collar area, as well as smears and stains on the clothes. Every speck was carefully planned out.

Anyway, have fun making brushes. It shouldn't be hard to find a dds viewer.

EDIT: Here are the dds plugins for photoshop (and more)to get you started: http://developer.nvidia.com/object/nv_texture_tools.html

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Mr Flowerkohl
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Posted: 27th Mar 2006 11:12
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Hi all !

I bought model pak 2 this weekend aaaand...yes, the models are very good. i like the textures and especially the search light

--- BUT !!! ---- Whats going on with the doctors animation ?
If hes shot down , he is falling towards you and is lying on the
floor for about 2 seconds. THEN the animation switches back and he is
lying about 4 meters away from you and gets up again. This looks a bit strange...know what i mean ?

Greetings

yeah...thats the ticket !
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bond1
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Posted: 27th Mar 2006 12:50
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????

I couldn't reproduce this...which doctor are you using? Pistol or unarmed?

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bond1
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Posted: 27th Mar 2006 13:17 Edited at: 27th Mar 2006 13:51
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Ok, I see what you're saying, and you're actually referring to the zombie doctor, not the regular doctor.

Here's the issue:

The zombie doctor contains a custom death animation where he spins and falls to the floor. And it only happens with certain weapons. The problem is that in FPSC, the "impact front" animation is the same as the "death animation".

You can easily fix this by opening the zombie doctor fpe file in notepad, scroll down to the animationinfo, and change the values for anim11 as shown below:

Change anim11 from 2497,2547 to 0,19.


Amazing how after all the testing I did, something little like this manages to slip through...

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Mr Flowerkohl
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Posted: 27th Mar 2006 13:33
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thanks a lot !

yeah...thats the ticket !
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bond1
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Posted: 27th Mar 2006 13:44 Edited at: 27th Mar 2006 13:49
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Thanks for pointing it out. And be sure to delete the .bin and .dbo files that are in the same folder for the changes to take effect!

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Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 27th Mar 2006 13:50
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thanks bond i really appreciate the help


but now im curious...if i just alter the dds file...

and i just save it...will that take on the new texture?

Nunticaelitusphobia---im scuurrred of the internet
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bond1
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Posted: 27th Mar 2006 13:56 Edited at: 27th Mar 2006 13:58
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Yes it will Bloodeath! So be sure to save the original if you don't want to lose it. Have fun experimenting.

But as I stated above, be sure to delete the .bin and .dbo file that are generated by FPSC when you place a character in a level. Otherwise any changes you made won't take effect.

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Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 27th Mar 2006 14:03
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sweet lol


ill have to get right on this and alter atleast 1 model this morning lol

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Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 27th Mar 2006 15:27
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Bond1 here is my first official texture Re do....


ill post the actual model if you want it...but heres the pic of the blood i added to it.....


(ATTACHED)

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Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 27th Mar 2006 15:29
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With that being said

heres the model if you guys want it



(just take the files and drop them into the user folder)

Nunticaelitusphobia---im scuurrred of the internet

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bond1
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Posted: 27th Mar 2006 15:33
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Haha cool, "NEW BLOOD ON THE OVEN", for some reason that piture and caption really cracks me up...it sound like a really bad B-movie.

Whydo I have a feeling you are gonna go nuts and have blood splatters on every single thing...

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Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 27th Mar 2006 15:34
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because you know me and...i already am?


lol


i mean come on... im in the production of making a game where you have to escape an insane asylum

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Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 27th Mar 2006 15:35
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but hey bond...its all gonna be different textures of blood...like hand prints and junk....


but for a first redone texture...you gotta admit it looks pretty good.


(sorry for double post) forgot about the edit button

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bond1
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Posted: 27th Mar 2006 15:43
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Yeah I'm just giving you a hard time, it does look good , the hand prints are a good idea too..

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Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 28th Mar 2006 02:28
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i have hand prints but im starting a new topic for my community models that ive recieved over time...

Nunticaelitusphobia---im scuurrred of the internet
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