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DarkBASIC Discussion / Attahc object to static...

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Chiwawa
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Posted: 19th Mar 2003 05:43
ok ..the moderator deleted my code...

then i post it here ...and i wanna know if it work or NOT..
we should finish this discussion...



ok ...manson..stop the hostilities.. i need that too ..for further optimisation of my code... then ... this work...

you said that it does not work with "great object" ...what do you mean..i want to see this "bug"...cause for now.. it work in all of my example..
PiratSS
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Posted: 19th Mar 2003 17:22
Man, what's up with that.

You are so desperate on your little code.

You even started a new thread!

I don't have any problems with your code, it's just that you may get flamed for this man.

Cheers.

Current project for RGT:
Chiwawa
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Posted: 19th Mar 2003 18:22
maybe but.... i want manson to appologize.. and to thx me
OR ... he should show me when it does not work! and then i could fix it...
Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 00:04
Why do you write with all those ...s inbetween perfectly good sentences? Just wondering.

Why the hell'd you ask me for crying out loud!?!
Chiwawa
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 01:40
its just an habit
PiratSS
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 02:39
You should'v mailed him,

posting here was a pointless exercise I mean it's just between you guys!

Cheers.

Current project for RGT:
Chiwawa
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 04:02
yeah maybe...but ... other user can help us... it seem to work..but....
if he said that sometime it doesnot work... maybe its real..
and maybe someone know how the commande "attch object to static" work....

HEY RICH!!! help us..how it really work?
Richard Davey
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 04:23 Edited at: 21st Mar 2003 04:24
MAKE STATIC OBJECT (a DarkBASIC command, not in DBPro) is video card dependant. Some cards cannot perform this command.

Two things about your code.

1) "make object cube 1,50000" - that's a MASSIVE cube! You probably don't need it this size - try a size of 5 instead! (even that is large).

2) "attach object to static" - there is no such command as this. Quite frankly I have no idea at all what you're trying to achieve!

Static objects are just objects that you cannot move or manipulate in the 3D world - and as such are faster than normal 3D objects because DB can cut out a load of the checks needed.

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming
Chiwawa
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 05:10
thats it... static object are faster ... than normal object but i need to move them.... sometime.... then i want to ATTACH them to static.. to be able to DEATH them after...but they desapear ... when i attach them.. then i fonded than when you make a static object that touch to the object ..you attach to static.. then dont disapear.. BUT it dont seem to work everytime....

and my graphic card is a GForce 4 .. and for simple static object it work.. everytime.. but ..with the commande attach object to static..they disapear and yes there is this command in darkbasic V1.13:

ATTACH OBJECT TO STATIC
This command will temporarily attach an object to the static world. The advantage of this is that you can store all your dyanmic objects in the static scene when they are inactive and not required to move or animate. This technique increases the speed of your 3D world as static objects render faster than dynamic ones.

SYNTAX
ATTACH OBJECT TO STATIC Object Number


...then how it work exactly?
PiratSS
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 05:36
Your problem is that you have a GeForce.

Sliding collision doesn't work with GeForce video cards for some reason.
My only suggestion is you should use an outside DLL to aid you with the collision.

Cheers.

Current project for RGT:

ALL MY STUFF ARE GONE!! ALL OF IT!!!
indi
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 09:39
try using the same thing with limbs perhaps


Danmatsuma
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 14:21
The easiest fix for this is to put



at the top of your prog, it's the hardware transform and lighting that is unsupported correctly in geforce 2 cards.

I had the most bizarre things happening to my characters every time i tried to use a static object until I found that, I hope that fixes your problem

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
Chiwawa
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 18:56
oups when i writed "DEATH" i should be "DETACH" lol....

ok ..but... wow .. maybe its because i have a poor english.. but i dont have any problem with collision... its with temporarly static object.. and it do it to eveybody.....

...and limb...wont do the same thing... i wont limb i WANT MOVABLE STATIC OBJECT!!!!!!!! understand? but try it yourself..the object deseapear on EVERY COMPUTER....and every card....i dont know how this command work exactly..
Manson
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 22:17
The command DOES exist
I too have a GForce 4,,, and the error dosn't seem trigered by sliding collision.

2nd I am talking about big aspects,,, when creating a whole FPS map inside a cube it must be of some size.

My problem is that when I create triangle-polygons, they wont show up on the screen when the poly has a sertain position.
I currently can't say for sure, but seems to happen when the x-coordinate gets greater than about 5000 could you please check it Chiwa?

BTW: My reason for calling you method off is, that I belive it dosn't work at all times, and might be a result of some sort of error.
2nd I belive there must be a better way of achiving this, but it dosn't seem like anyone else know of the command

Chiwawa
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 23:19
yeah... maybe i taked it ...a littlebit too..hard..sorry

but i tried it in my LumberJack Game and it does not work at all..i dont see any of my tree who r attached to static...

i need this command too..but nobody seem to know how it work..

and i did not get any error of collision...maybe in older GForce card...but anyway i use my own math collision..cause DB collision are too slow..

... CAN SOMEONE HELP US!!!! HOWWW THE |!"/$%?&& command "ATTAHC OBJECT TO STATIC" WORK!!!! PLZZZ rich..or ..i dont know who... we should maybe email LEE but..i dont think we will get an answer =)
Manson
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2003 02:42
Maybe it is simply related to the 3D position?
I havn't tested this through, but it seems to me as if it only has this limitation in one direction/one end of the x-axis
Perhaps all we need is to add a sertain value to all of the x-coordinates of the polys, and thereby move all of them into a position where they're drawn?

BTW: is there a limitation of the posting of code? I could poste mine for an example, but it's currently 1300 lines,,,

PiratSS
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2003 03:02
Why do you use ATTAHC OBJECT TO STATIC command?

Are you trying to achieve sliding collision?

it's rakky hard to understand you with all the ... and ... then... I .. Got....

Cheers. :-s

Current project for RGT:

ALL MY STUFF ARE GONE!! ALL OF IT!!!
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2003 05:03
"Attach object to static" has nothing to do with sliding collision but
"get static collision hit" can simulate sliding collision

I'm only going to post this one more time but put "disable tnl"
at the top of your code and you may find that the command now works.
Like I said in my post above.

I'm guessing that when you use "Attach object to static" your object dissappears?

And perhaps if you use "make static object" your geometry goes crazy?

if so disable tnl will probably fix it, and you wont notice a real speed decrease because hardware transform and lighting is not correctly supported in geforce 2 anyway.

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2003 05:36
manson: are you disabling static occlusion? If not that's probably your trouble

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Chiwawa
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2003 08:27
static... object are PERFERT.. just the command attach object to static.. who ...

but ill im going to see what danmatsuma is talking about..

and manson.. i dont think there is a limitation of code.. ive poster my lumberjack demo.. and it take..like 1500 lines..hmm but not on this forum...try it..
Chiwawa
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2003 08:54
no... nothing to do.. nothing working..
Manson
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2003 22:00
Nope, the tnl command dosn't change anything,,,

Chiwawa
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2003 00:52
seem that we wont get any answer...

hey manson..email Leem Bamber ..hes the only one who can help us
Manson
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2003 02:05
This should work, exept it dosn't,,,
I just quickly wrote up a piece of code to see what's wrong, please try it and get back with whatever result you get,,,



Danmatsuma
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2003 02:21 Edited at: 23rd Mar 2003 08:33
Hey Chiwawa cut me some slack, I'm in Australia and you're in Canada, I can't be up all hours just to answer your questions!!

Well you're right manson, for some reason that won't work. I can't pick anything really wrong with your code, and removing "attach object to static" makes it work fine.
Dbc primatives seem to work fine with "make static object" but try it with your own .x or .3ds file...
I have pyramids in my game which I attach to static and they work fine but your cubes wont... Do they have to move?
If not the demo for static occlusion might help you out 'cos that'll remove anything from the rendering list that you can't see, speeding things up, bbutknowing the luck of these things I bet you want to move them all over the place!!

If anyone's interested, I'll post screenshots of my game with and without "disable tnl" and both with static objects so you can see what happens on my machine which is:
athlon 1800xp geforce2-mx400 256mbDDR.
It's quite crazy...

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
Manson
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2003 02:40
Huh? You've got my PC,,, Please post the shots,,,
Neither disabling or enabling the static occlusion helps,,,

Manson
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2003 02:42
Stretch that yours are a GForce 2 - never mind, forget it, post the screenies!

Danmatsuma
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2003 07:43 Edited at: 23rd Mar 2003 07:49
O.k first so there's no doubt:



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Danmatsuma
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2003 07:48
Now, with tnl disabled:



ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2003 07:48 Edited at: 23rd Mar 2003 07:54
Now the same thing with tnl enabled, the default for dbc:



So, there definitely is a difference I'm sure you'll agree

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Danmatsuma
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2003 07:50 Edited at: 23rd Mar 2003 07:57
Don't know why those last two image tags don't seem to work for me, but you can always paste them in.. let me know if they don't work for you either...

Static occlusion is all about hiding objects that are behind (completely) static objects. It really should help, put a fps counter in the static occlusion demo that comes with dbc to get a better idea, if that doesn't work, then that's not what's slowing you down I guess...

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
Chiwawa
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2003 08:40
but i need to move my objects... :-s
then.... im in deep shit
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2003 10:52
lol, yeah maybe chiwawa, but just try it with regular objects, if you're planning on moving them, you would have had to move your static collision boxes around anyhow (a pain in the ass), maybe you'd be better off with regular collision boxes and hiding the objects ones offscreen, see if you can get the fps you need that way, just a thought

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Chiwawa
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Posted: 24th Mar 2003 00:03
i dont use db's collision..they suck hard... i use my own math collision...

but ...yeah maybe i should... just hide the object offscreen..but then you have 1000 object and each ..loop u check if you 1000 object are inscreen then....its a little bit.... lol ...

its why i want attach object to static.. then when i need to move one..i detach it.. like.. 1 object by ..minutes... then...

ill stay with real object..if no one know how it really work..
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 24th Mar 2003 10:28
do you really need 1000 all loaded at once? maybe you could have some "zones"
when you enter a zone, it finds which way you're facing, and moves the boxes from behind you to in front then sync's, well, just moving 100 of them around instead of 1000 might be less cpu intensive, but that's only if all your objects are the same..

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
Chiwawa
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Posted: 24th Mar 2003 17:32
object are not the same..... but why they put this command if it does not work...

it should work..but no one know how... we should just email Lee..but i dont think eh will answer us...
indi
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Posted: 25th Mar 2003 02:38
I dont think u can move a static box quick enough to be used as a moving collision entity
who knows try a small sample instead of complaining


------------------------------------------------------------------
MAKE STATIC COLLISION BOX
This command will create invisible collision zones within the static world data. Once defined, you can use
the GET STATIC COLLISION HIT command to detect whether another dynamically specified box area
collides with this one. This command is ideally used to define solid areas within your 3D world.

SYNTAX
MAKE STATIC COLLISION BOX X1, Y1, Z1, X2, Y2, Z2

--------------------------------------------------------------------

GET STATIC COLLISION HIT
You can use this command to detect whether a specified area within your 3D world is touching a static
collision box. By specifying old and recent positions of the specified area, this command not only returns a
one if a collision has occurred, but fills the get static collision x,y and z expressions with adjustment
values. Applying these values to an object or entity will give the impression of sliding collision.

SYNTAX
Return Integer=GET STATIC COLLISION HIT(OX1, OY1, OZ1, OX2, OY2, OZ2, NX1, NY1, NZ1, NX2, NY2,
NZ2)

Chiwawa
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Posted: 25th Mar 2003 05:10 Edited at: 25th Mar 2003 05:10
e.e.e.ee DAMN WHY ARE YOU ALKING OF COLLISION!!!!!!!

i dont want collision!!!!!
I WANT STATIC OBJECT DAMN!!!!
JUST TO INCREASE MY FPS!!!

...i use my OWN COLLISON MATH!!! cause db's collision suck...ok now STOP TALKING ABOUT COLLISION.....

i just want STATIC OBJECT who can be turned into NORMAL OBJECT to MOVE THEM...

UNDERSTAND ...then now STOP talking about COLLISION!!!!
why ...many people in this post..talk about collision????
DID ... me or Manson ...ever talked about COLLISON: NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

.....im trying to ...understand the commands "ATTACH OBJEC TO STATIC" and DETACH OBJECT TO STATIC" ......i JUST WANT TO KNOW WHY THE OBJECTS DISAPEAR!!!

......i dont want collision!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

im trying to get it to work....from ....about 2-3 month... but no one can ..answer correctly....

then in conclusion: these command have some bug in it.... thats it..
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 25th Mar 2003 06:24
Now your talkin' like cornholio...

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indi
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Posted: 25th Mar 2003 09:46
Don't be rude or get mad at us.
You wont get any help or support if u carry on like a pork chop.

consult this example.

I dont think you fully understand what a static object is and its usage.

remark and unremark the line i commented on



indi
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Posted: 25th Mar 2003 09:50
oops dont use that snippet use this one its neater



Chiwawa
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Posted: 26th Mar 2003 00:50 Edited at: 26th Mar 2003 00:54
ok...LISTEN... i fully understand ..static object.....ok... ive already used them enough.... its similar "make mesh from object" but with other propriety... i know that from 2 years...

BUT ...i dont understand..how the command ATTACH OBJECT TO STATIC...cause ALL what it do it is to HIDE the objects...they can be move and anything else..BUT they are hided.... then wtf???? ...what the point of this command... why not simply hide them.....


ok ill explain ... WHAT I WANT to do ...with this command:
ok ..listen..and WELL:

first i have ..like 2000 object ok... they are tree (the vegetable..in the forest..) who can be CUT and move..1 by 1 then..then dont need to move all in the same time.. THEN i want to increase my FPS... then i could make ALL of them static.. and then when i need to move them..i delete the static and make a "normal" object... at the same place.... BUT there is the command "ATTACH OBJECT TO STATIC" and "DETACH OBJECT FROM STATIC" ...

i taked that from the help file..i have comment it ..what is between "()":
This command will temporarily attach an object to the static world. The advantage of this is that you can store all your dyanmic objects in the static scene when they are inactive and not required to move or animate(they did not said "WE WILL HIDE IT ..they said you CANT move it..and animate it"). This technique increases the speed of your 3D world as static objects render faster than dynamic ones.(here they said it will be FASTER ...for your world.. they did not said "YOU WONT SEE YOUR WORLD")


then....which part i dont understand...

..and your example ..is just showing what i explain... when you uncomment the "attach object to static" ...you have just 2 cube..a dynamic and a static one(who is made from the dynamic one)

then....wich part i dont understand...
Chiwawa
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Posted: 27th Mar 2003 00:25
then........wich part i miss?
Chiwawa
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 00:52
no body know?
indi
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 02:46
i thInk u blew your chances of recieving help from me.
You better ask someone else who can tolerate your insults and rude practises.
Nah I dont know that command at all and shouldnt have even attmepted to show you.

Chiwawa
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 04:05
lmao... how can you explain something you dont even know?

ok ..listen.. you said:
-I dont think you fully understand what a static object is and its usage.

i use DB since V1.07.... i was on the first forum...when there was only one forum... if i dont fully understand static objet..i think i just should stop to code...

ok..ill try to stop to be rude..but this sentense just ..... got me to go crazy..."I dont think you fully understand what a static object is and its usage."
im trying to find how this..command work.... since approximatly V1.09

...in this version i was thinking that the fact that the objects was desapearing..when you use this command was a bug...cause this version was very VERY VERY buggy... but when V1.09b came up..ive realised that it was not a bug... or maybe one... but never reported to Lee.. then 2 choice:

1- there is a bug in this command...
2- we dont use it correctly... but they dont give much information in the help file...

ok..indi sorry.. but like i said.. it does like.. more than 1 year that i try to find ..how it work..

ive already tried ..so many thing..like:

-make a big static object who touch to all my object that i want to "attach"...
-tryed to REset the propriety of the "attached" object with set object...
-tryed to SHOW them..with the command show
-tried to scale them negativly.......

and many other thing... but NOTHING i CANT get the "attached" object to show up.....

..and every time that i got answered..it was like:
-"why do you want to use this command"
-"use real static object"
-collision thing (like you said ^_^...)

...but nothing...who can help me...
ok i know i maybe... got hungry a little bit too fast..
but every one answer me...completly .. out of the subject....

and no one seem to know how this command work...

P.S.
all during this post i was talking of the command "ATTACH OBJECT TO STATIC"
indi
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 04:42
I was being sarcastic if u didnt realise.

If its taken you a year to work it out then your silly.

You should ave just compiled the problem and sent it to DBS.

Im NOT responsible for your failure or stupidity.


l8r

Chiwawa
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 05:34 Edited at: 28th Mar 2003 05:36
-I was being sarcastic if u didnt realise.


..when was you sarcastic...???

and... ive already send a message to ...explain them my problem....to: [email protected]

but...ive never received..any answer......

then i thougt that it was not a bug......
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 05:56 Edited at: 28th Mar 2003 06:05
Something my grandfather told me when I was very young, sitting in front of the trs-80:

"When you deal with a computer, and especially with programming, you have to remember that everything that goes wrong is your fault. If you take full responsibility for your task, there is nothing you can't fix, it's when you place the blame on the machine or other sources that you lose control, and then nothing can save you from the clutches of frustration."

How this applies to you: Your problem is not the fact that 'attach object to static' doesn't seem to work on your machine.

Your problem is that you are too stubborn to try another way.

You better stop biting the hands that feed

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
indi
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 06:54
Danmatsuma your pappy is wise beyond his years

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