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Geek Culture / Who listens to classical music?

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Fallout
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Posted: 6th Apr 2006 17:07
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I just got curious. We all like different things, but how many people here occasionally or frequently listen to classical music as part of their audio diet?

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geecee3
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Posted: 6th Apr 2006 17:17
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yep,

classical music is great for relaxing and coding, I find it to be very inspirational. Classical music contains something that gets lost in the realm of analog synths and drum machines, feeling. Sure a well constructed techno piece can get the hairs standing on end, but the grace in classical music elevates it above the realm of pop with the harmonics of an entire orchestra. The fusion of classical music with modern technologies is a very exiting area that can bring the world of classical music to the masses, William Orbit being a pioneer in this area. Music will always evolve and re-evolve, but classical music will always be classical and will always have an audience because of its very natural humanised construction.

cheers, Grant.

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Van B
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Posted: 6th Apr 2006 17:23
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I like it, but I never listen to it.

Dunno why, I tend to listen to whatever music I feel like, I just would'nt feel comfortable listening to an album of Mozart or something along those lines. There's a good few incredible classical songs, like Adagio for strings is an obvious one - because it's probably the only one I know the name of .

I think that sort of music is liked by most people whether they admit it or not, but only a certain type of person will go buy a classical CD, it's like most people know the music isn't going anywhere, so don't feel compelled to collect it, as oposed to modern music which comes so thick and fast that you have to grab what you like while you can before you forget it.

Orchestra's sound awesome though, even if you hate the music, you can't deny the impact a good orchestra has on a piece of music - heck my high school orchestra used to pwn the Hawaii 5-0 soundtrack - sounded awesome.


Van-B

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Fallout
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Posted: 6th Apr 2006 17:24 Edited at: 6th Apr 2006 17:27
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Tell you what man. When I need to concentrate on my uni work, but can't stand background silence, classical is the way forward. Drum'n'bass/rock etc. all take an element of my concentration away. Lyrics especially cause problems cos you can't help singing along (at least in your head if not out loud). But having said that, some classical tunes just tear my concentration away and all I can do is sit back and marvel at them until they finish. Specifically Ravel Bolero, Holst Mars (about as awe inspiring as you can get) and Prokofiev Montagues and Capulets.

I was driving to Bournemouth once. It was PISSING it down. Down the motorway at night, both the left and right lane were flooded so cars were driving down the centre white line. Lightening was striking in the distance either side of the road. The wind screen wipers were going at full pelt. Spray from the cars in front brought visibility down to nothing but 50 metres or so. I got bored of my music and switched to classic FM almost accidentally. Holst Mars came on ...... picture massive music and an appocolyptic drive home. I swear I thought I was going to die. It was quality. (Edit: I have 2000watt RMS of car audio power, so my senses were truly overpowered hehe)

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Saikoro
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Posted: 6th Apr 2006 17:51
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The only way I can listen to classical music is if its the only thing I'm into. Well, anything from the 1800's forward (Beethoven as well). I find that classical music deserves more than just listening, but my full attention in order for me to find out what is doing what and how. I feel that I need to appreciate the peice first before I can listen to it casually, and unfortunately for me, I can't quite understand most peices as much as I would like to. I don't appreciate the music because I'm a whacked out music major or something (which I'm not), but you tend to learn a lot from things that would get by if you were distracted with something else. However, most people tend to be more relaxed and concentrated when listening to classical music, but that all really depends on what you're listening to. If you listen to Mozart or Haydn, then you're in for an easy breeze, but Stravinsky and Ives will have you off your rocker trying to do your work and hear the music at the same time. If you really want to learn about music, screw the classes, you already know how to play/mix/theorize (and if not, internet). Listening and analyzing classical music lets you learn much more than you would in a classroom anyway. Just try to figure out what is going on with what, and you'll learn much.

But to answer the question, I listen to it moderately. Unfortunately I'm busy, and rock seems the primal way to go for a guy like me at this stage.

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spooky
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Posted: 6th Apr 2006 18:06
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I work from home and recently got a DAB stereo and I love to listen to the classic and chill radio stations. Chill is my fave at the moment.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 6th Apr 2006 18:35
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I have a wide range of music, and like to listen to some classical music(Rarely I'm afraid), the orchestral stuff sounds best to me, opera is annoying mostly unless its pavorotti, however that Opera part in the song 'Eskimo' by Damien Rice ruled, of cause, I can't forget good old traditional oriental music. However my ears are subject to a lot of death metal.

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indi
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Posted: 6th Apr 2006 18:40
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mostlyclassical.com

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 6th Apr 2006 19:03
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I like it, it works well in games, and movies, but I hardly ever listen to it.

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adr
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Posted: 6th Apr 2006 19:09 Edited at: 6th Apr 2006 19:11
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I used to listen to it a lot at uni, late night projects etc

I should get back into it. To be honest, I'm a bit of a heathen when it comes to classical music. I have one or two triple CD compilations and that's about it. I should whack them on my iPod tonight ...

Quote: "Adagio for strings"


Albinoni's Adagio in G minor for Strings and Organ almost brings me to tears whenever I hear it, it's so beautiful. I forget how far into the song it is, but there's a marked change in pace and volume about 2 or 3 minutes in and it honestly sends chills down my spine. The change from gentle and floaty to this stern, heroic ensemble is fantastic stuff.

It seems a shame to butcher it in such a cliche'd fashion, but I always imagine some heroic scene in slow motion. Maaaan ... I'm definately going to dig it out when I get back home.

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Freddy 007
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Posted: 6th Apr 2006 22:27 Edited at: 6th Apr 2006 22:27
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I listen to classic, mostly Phantom of the Opera, and some of the tracks on the Halo 2 Soundtrack(I like that music). It's relaxing... Oh, and the Lord of the Rings soundtrack!

And Star Wars.


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Flindiana Jones
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Posted: 6th Apr 2006 22:35 Edited at: 6th Apr 2006 22:53
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Yeah, I'm mostly an orchestral soundtrack man...I like a lot of classical music, one of my favorites being Mozart's requiem. Especialy Dies Irae...that one sends shivers down my spine. Which is not to say I don't listen to a lot of other stuff...Like fallouts DnB mastery!

[edit] Heh, just looked and saw I've got 85 John Willaims tracks...6.7 hours, and still looking for more...[/edit]

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Peter H
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Posted: 6th Apr 2006 23:06
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guilty... bach is my favourite... (then vivaldi... but then again i've never listened to "Ravel Bolero")

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Saikoro
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Posted: 7th Apr 2006 00:15
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John Williams is the biggest loon in the industry. Not only does he not write his own music, a lot of it is the same i.e. the E.T. theme and the Star Wars theme are the same except for 1 note. But to each his own I guess.

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Jeku
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Posted: 7th Apr 2006 00:55
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Are they? I don't recall the ET theme off the top of my head, but John Williams is extremely talented. Where did you hear that he doesn't write his own music!?

Indiana Jones, Jurassic Park, Star Wars, and many other soundtracks. Phenomenal talent.


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Saikoro
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Posted: 7th Apr 2006 01:08
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Explain to me how anyone can write an entire orchestral score for a movie in two weeks? He has a team of writers that he appeals a theme to, has the first set of people write out the entire score front to back, then has another set of people re-write it for orchestra. When you thank John Williams, you're thanking the team John Williams that made it possible. I live right next to Stockton, California, and I had a teacher last term by the name of Max Simoncic who knew JW himself, and who knew all the inner workings of that kind of thing. He has a website if you wish to verify (e-mail him, of course). He also said that one of his students was the one who created (or helped to create) the score for Titanic, and he indeed has a few large productions of his own, so I can't help but believe the guy.

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Fallout
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Posted: 7th Apr 2006 01:17
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@Peter

I'm not a massive Ravel fan, but Bolero is the ultimate. It's the ultimate build. From nothing .. a haunting melody that builds and ends in a huge finale. 6 and half minutes of build. You probably have heard it in films before, but don't know it by name. Anyway, a really powerful tune if you get it turned up and allow it to reach its maximum volume. It's one of the tunes you can work to for the first two or three minutes, but then as it slowly picks up, you can't help but just sit back and take it in.

Hey, Ravel died in 1937, so I don't think he'll mind me uploading this for you. Ravel - Bolero

Now if that isn't inspiring classical, I don't know what is.

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Peter H
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Posted: 7th Apr 2006 01:46 Edited at: 7th Apr 2006 01:50
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nice

for some very odd reason it reminds me of the ewoks...

[edit] oh, and i forgot to mention, i really really like the King Kong soundtrack... (one of the few soundtracks that i've bothered to buy...)

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BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 7th Apr 2006 02:07
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I like classical a lot. Not only is it beautiful stuff to study when you're learning to play it or use it to further your knowledge of music theory, but it's great listening and stimulation like you guys have mentioned above. A Liszt CD kept me going at 4 in the morning writing an essay on Oedipus and Antigone.

Just last Sunday I went to see the show Blast! They open the show with Bolero and among some transitional music (and absolutely friggin' amazing marching snare solo & dueling, he stabbed the freakin' marching snare head! those things are thick!) throw in some classics like Appalachian Spring, Villa Borghese, and Medea's Dance of Vengeance.

Once they get to the end of Bolera though it's insane. Trumpets doing crazy marching formations across the stage with trombones flanking the stage with two massive bass drums in the middle being played by these dudes who jump like 4 feet into the air every other beat and bring down the accent on one.

If that show's ever in your town you MUST go see it. Phenomenal, especially if you have an appreciation for music, especially the big, bombasic, showoffy style you get in really freakin' good drum & bugle corps and marching bands.


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Flindiana Jones
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Posted: 7th Apr 2006 02:10
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@Saikoro: I don't care who wrote it, I just love it to death! If what you say is true though, it does make me sad.

Your goose is cooked.
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Jeku
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Posted: 7th Apr 2006 02:13
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Quote: "He also said that one of his students was the one who created (or helped to create) the score for Titanic"


John Williams didn't do that score

And still, I don't ever listen to heresay, so unless there's some kind of proven record (i.e. lawsuit, admission, etc.) then I don't like to give credit to random people who say they know someone who knows someone who knows someone :-P

I found your music teacher's site and couldn't find anything to do with John Williams. Then I did a few searches with Google to backup your theory, and nothing came up. Sounds like your music teacher was probably a jealous closet fan


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Saikoro
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Posted: 7th Apr 2006 02:17
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Indeed, the music would be much better had it been written by one person. However, you cannot blame Williams for that - as I said, they give him a deadline (and an abnormaly short one, too) to write the music. If there must be blame, it should be focused on the movie business rather than Williams. However, if its something of a stickler thing that you find someone who writes their own music, search Leonard Bernstein (the man behind the West Side Story music). He is arguably the most well known solo composer (as in not a team) of the late 20th century. Compare Bernstein to Williams, and you will see immediately the contrast.

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Saikoro
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Posted: 7th Apr 2006 02:20 Edited at: 7th Apr 2006 02:20
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Well we posted at the same time... so I'll double post just this once to have a rebuttal

Quote: "John Williams didn't do that score"

Didn't say he did. Re-read what I wrote.

Quote: "I found your music teacher's site and couldn't find anything to do with John Williams."

I did say e-mail, correct? Why would his site talk about John Williams, its not John Williams' site is it?

Quote: "Then I did a few searches with Google to backup your theory, and nothing came up."

Try looking up for how John Williams makes his music, and tell me what you find.

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Jeku
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Posted: 7th Apr 2006 02:31
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Quote: "Didn't say he did. Re-read what I wrote."


Well it was in the same context. I mean, what's the point of telling me your teacher had a student who co-wrote the theme for a movie?

Quote: "I did say e-mail, correct?"


I'm not into emailing complete strangers, thank you.

Quote: "Try looking up for how John Williams makes his music, and tell me what you find."


Um, that's what I did. *NOTHING* that I can find goes into this shady practice. I read about his 45 Academy Award nominations, though.

It's time for you to prove what you say, otherwise it's just that--- a rumour.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Williams_(composer)

You'd think Wikipedia, with all it's unbiased excellence, would mention at least one sentence about this.

On this site http://www.afm.org/im/cover/07-05/07-05.htm it says:

Quote: "The process certainly sounds time-consuming: Williams works in a room he has occupied at DreamWorks studios for many years. He has a small screening apparatus, and he goes back and forth constantly from the piano to the scene he's working on, sometimes even just a few seconds of the scene at a time. "I do this all day long. By the time I've finished writing a scene, I will have watched it dozens of times," he says. Then come the revisions."


And this made me laugh:

Quote: "Explain to me how anyone can write an entire orchestral score for a movie in two weeks? "


Is that your proof!? To me it just proves how talented he is.


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Saikoro
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Posted: 7th Apr 2006 02:43
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Quote: "what's the point of telling me your teacher had a student who co-wrote the theme for a movie?"

Well, read what I wrote again, and I tell you.

Quote: "Um, that's what I did. *NOTHING* that I can find goes into this shady practice."

Therefore by the same means, you cannot prove he does it alone.

Theres no doubt that he works hard, I am definitely not accusing him of being a lazy composer and having everyone else do everything for him, but if you really took the time to learn about how to compose a peice of symphony music, you would know that it isn't a quick and easy thing like making a rock tune. It's not to say he doesn't write his own stuff, but movie scores need to follow certain rules designated by the guys who make the movies. They have time limits, creative barricades, and yes, teams.

Here's some links for a reference:
http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=U1ARTU0001211
http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=U1SEC835136
http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=U1SEC835135

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Fallout
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Posted: 7th Apr 2006 03:01
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@BearCDP

That sounds awesome. I've never seen a live classical show, but I might keep my eyes and ears open for one in the future. If the program has some big tunes on it like Bolero, I'll check it out.

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Saikoro
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Posted: 7th Apr 2006 03:07
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@ Fallout

There's some very, very nice symphony venues in the UK. I haven't been there myself, but I hear that the Symphony Hall in Birmingham is top-notch. They have venues constantly there. The only thing you'll notice is that the price is just a weeeee bit higher than a rock show but you'll definitely get your money's worth.

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Jeku
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Posted: 7th Apr 2006 03:25
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Quote: "Therefore by the same means, you cannot prove he does it alone."


Seriously, don't give up your day job--- your evidence is rather thin.

There's a reason why courts make the prosecution prove guilt before the defendant proves innocence. If there is no proof of guilt, then the case is moot. Therefore, if you can't prove to me that John Williams doesn't write all of his own work, then there's no way I can prove to you that he does.

It would be fruitless for me to go around proving that people *did* do something that they, in fact, won 5 Academy Awards for.

Quote: "but if you really took the time to learn about how to compose a peice of symphony music, you would know that it isn't a quick and easy thing like making a rock tune."


I do not care about this. Just because it takes time to compose a piece of symphony music, does not mean that John Williams doesn't write his own music. So if John Lennon wrote Imagine, one of the most well-known modern songs, in a single hour, it must mean he had an army of writers who did the work for him? That logic just doesn't work.

And yes, I do write music so I know how difficult it is


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Saikoro
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Posted: 7th Apr 2006 03:35
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Did you look at the links I posted? They depict a lot of what goes on in film scores. Here's another from our famous unbiased Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_score

In the last point you made, you seemed to ignore the fact that I said symphony music. Indeed, rock tunes are easier to write, so its very feasible that Lennon did it in an hour by himself. What I am referring to is that the entire process that a classical composer goes through to make a peice is cut down through director samples, theme suggestions, creative barricades, replication, and having others orchestrate your piano work. The links I said are very valid and show you exactly that. I am in no way trying to diminish what Williams is, because he does write outside of the theater (and that is the kind of stuff I suggest people look at, the Williams without the barricades, its wonderful), but when films are involved, it ceases to be music of free will. Have you seen the film A Clockwork Orange? The experiment that the government ran over Alex which destroys his free will and desire in a certain context is give or take the same kind of barricade and restriction that big film directors put on film score composers when they write their music.

--

I suggest anyone willing to learn about music at its core should take a look at this: http://www.leonardbernstein.com/youth.html
It's pretty neat stuff, and true if you really think about it.

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Jeku
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Posted: 7th Apr 2006 03:47
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Okay, John Lennon was a bad example.

*BUT*, your Wikipedia link does not mention John Williams getting others to write music for him. Sometimes it's hard to admit when one is wrong, I know, but really--- there's nothing you've shown me that was proof.

And the Wikipedia article writes how *SOME* film composers collaborate with other composers--- nowhere in there does it say the collaborators are uncredited, or, again, that John Williams does this.

I know it's hard to let go of a strong belief, but you really should stop spreading heresay about people who you don't know.

I notice how your argument is starting to drift away from Williams and onto how film composers work in general, but your original comment of, and I quote:

Quote: "John Williams is the biggest loon in the industry. Not only does he not write his own music, a lot of it is the same i.e. the E.T. theme and the Star Wars theme are the same except for 1 note. But to each his own I guess."


Is unfounded and rather preposterous. Loon? And you said he does not write his own music. Wow, somebody better give the Academy a call to take back his Oscar awards


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Saikoro
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Posted: 7th Apr 2006 04:08
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There is some tomfoolery going on with that loon comment. I had only posted about Williams after someone else brought him up, because to me, Williams film work and classical music do not go hand in hand. Something was up with that comment, I know for a fact I did not bring that up out of the blue. Nor have I ever used the word 'loon' in common conversation.

However, that aside, you're saying basically that, even though other composers all follow the same procedures when writing music, John Williams is the only one to break that and do everything purely off his creative mind and no barricades attached. That comment in itself is more or less saying an idol is greater than everyone else because you want him to be. It's also doing the same thing you're accusing me of: spreading heresay about people you don't know. You don't know Williams, so what makes you think he does things differently?

If indeed I said that he does not write his own music - I would like to take that back and say that, as I have previously stated, he is given a theme, type of sound, dynamic, and emotion to work with before he even begins composing, writes it on piano, and gives it to a team of people to orchestrate it (though he may do some of it as well). I suppose in hindsight I gave film music too much credit by assuming it would take years to create if done by itself, for film music obviously lacks the emotion, effort, and creativity of classical music. But I challenge you to, say, compose an orchestral peice for Drew Cameron's milk video. Maybe just a couple minutes of it. See how long it takes.

Quote: "a lot of it is the same i.e. the E.T. theme and the Star Wars theme are the same except for 1 note."

is completely true.

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Phaelax
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Posted: 7th Apr 2006 04:16
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I listen to classical. Beethoven's moonlight sonata is probably my favorite. Also like some Chopin. I got several classical discs. Bela Fleck even has a classical album (perpetual motion), chopin and bach played on banjo!


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Saikoro
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Posted: 7th Apr 2006 04:18
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Chopin on banjo? This I have to hear. Strangely, I hadn't ever seen a banjo as a classical type instrument, but it must add a really unique flavor to the peice using that color.

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Jeku
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Quote: "However, that aside, you're saying basically that, even though other composers all follow the same procedures when writing music, John Williams is the only one to break that and do everything purely off his creative mind and no barricades attached."


Nowhere does it say the *all* do that. They are not the borg. It specifically says, in all John Williams sites I can find, how he does his work. Nowhere does it say he has orchestrators do all the work for him. You are the one who has said that.

Quote: "It's also doing the same thing you're accusing me of: spreading heresay about people you don't know. You don't know Williams, so what makes you think he does things differently?"


If somebody claims John William is a Martian, I'm not going to scramble and dig up evidence proving otherwise. Like I said before, the oness is on *you* to prove your allegations, not me. Common sense, dude, not rocket science


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Saikoro
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Posted: 7th Apr 2006 05:22
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You misunderstand. I said that, as defined by Wikipedia, the norm is for composers in film music to follow those certain guidlines, which you are saying Williams doesn't necessarily follow. By suggesting the abnormal, it becomes your responsibility to prove that fact. Common sense.

Did anyone read that Leonard Bernstein link?

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Oddmind
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Posted: 7th Apr 2006 05:47 Edited at: 7th Apr 2006 05:49
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John Williams is just a mondernized Gustav Holst... Listen to Mars Bringer of War, then star wars and tell me you dont hear the same thing, except mass production bleeding thru the John Williams stuff. Dont get me wrong Its all good and i like it but its all been done before.

Quote: "Specifically Ravel Bolero, Holst Mars (about as awe inspiring as you can get) and Prokofiev Montagues and Capulets."


Hell yea! I also like Ravels "Pavane". Also check out the rest of Gustav Holsts "The Planets" collection, theres some jewels to be found.

Also Fallout because I know you to be the DnB guru chck out Rob Dougan's "Furious Angels - Instrumental" album for a mix between Chopin and some nice percussive drum beats. Its so awesome as work music, I know I got Jonny Ree hooked on it .

Also Tchaikovsky's stuff besides the nutcracker is great.

My whole family are musicians and my dad's musical geneology dates back to Beethoven and Haydn, them being student and teacher respectively. I thought that was amazing as I didnt know that for the longest time, but seeing as there must be thousands of other people with the same situation Its not neccisarily the bees knees .

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Saikoro
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Posted: 7th Apr 2006 05:53
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Hey, OddMind, is it me or have you been missing for a while? WB if you have been else ignore me.

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Oddmind
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Posted: 7th Apr 2006 06:21 Edited at: 7th Apr 2006 06:42
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Ha Yea I kinda took a little break, Ive been in the 3d section probably 2 or 3 times. Thanks

Im trying to get school on the priorities list and work on my game at the same time. I hope my game goes over well... Ill post in WIP when I have a good amount of stuff done.

I just d/led a bunch of classical music legally because its all in public domain

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Mattman
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Posted: 7th Apr 2006 06:23
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For the person who said they enjoyed the Halo 2 soundtrack: I have met the composer of that, he is a friend of my best friend's Dad

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Mucky Muck Ninja
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Posted: 7th Apr 2006 08:32
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Its ok I guess, I can't say I ever listen to it by choice. Usually classical music just depresses me, although I did like a lot of the music in pirates of the carribean and some in lord of the rings. But if you give me a Bach CD and a System of a Down CD you can bet money I'll be listening to system :p

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BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 7th Apr 2006 08:38
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I'm also seeing fallacies in your argument Saikoro.

I think it's important to note the distinction between classical, or just plain orchestral music and film scores. With a symphony, naturally people are going to pour their heart and soul into it expressing every artistic nuance possible. A film score on the other hand does not need to go to extremes with this. I saw the Phoenix Symphony a couple of months ago and Bill Conti (Rocky, Karate Kid, and others) even said that with film music you're mostly working to get a melodic idea out and then variate the hell out of it.

If I, an amateur, can crank this out in a couple weeks by working on it every few of days after school:
http://cdpgames.com/pub_files/GuyonBattle.mp3
I have no problem seeing John Williams compose two hours' worth of music in two or three weeks with infinitely better quality and orchestration. You get into a pattern, which not only establishes your style but also gives you a springboard for when you're stuck orchestrating such and such a part.


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Jeku
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Posted: 7th Apr 2006 09:45 Edited at: 7th Apr 2006 09:46
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There's really no point in arguing with Saikiro, as I can tell he/she is the type that doesn't like to admit they may be mistaken

But yes, I have the utmost respect for Williams, Danny Elfman, and other film composers, and your so-called proof hasn't hampered it one bit. In fact it has strengthened it.

One of my favourite pieces of film music is the soundtrack theme for Forrest Gump--- still a classic after all these years. I don't remember who composed it, though...


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Saikoro
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Posted: 7th Apr 2006 16:26
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I am quite apalled at the fact that you guys say I don't admit I'm wrong, when I have clearly admitted certain points where I was mistaken :\ Perhaps you are not the type to read an entire post, judging by the lack of understanding you have for ANYTHING I have said.

@ BearCDP

I did note the distinction between real classical music and film scores.

Quote: "I suppose in hindsight I gave film music too much credit by assuming it would take years to create if done by itself, for film music obviously lacks the emotion, effort, and creativity of classical music."


This was posted over four hours before you posted.

By the way, I enjoyed your battle song, but it is safe to say that it is nowhere near a film score. (yes, I know you said it, I'm just reinforcing)

@ Jeku

You have completely ignored every single thing that you needed to prove yourself in order for your theories to be correct. By doing so, you leave nothing but doubt. However, if you were to perhaps put some kind of argument besides "he doesnt do wut other ppl do hes a god" behind your theory that he doesn't follow the standards of film writing, then it would make it more feasible. Again, I am tired of seeing how you refuse to read my entire post, realizing that I do admit my fallacies when I realize them. Obviously, I will not admit something wrong that I have not seen that it is wrong, and the fact that the quote (which I still believe to be tomfoolery) that I originally posted was something that I took back upon researching for hours afterward. However, I still stick by the fact that he follows those standards of writing film music (and because he is so big in that industry, I wouldn't be suprised if he pioneered a lot of it), and until you prove the abnormal, that is what I will believe. It is your defense that needs proof now because by saying that he does not abide by those standards, you are saying that he is doing the abnormal. Prove it.

It seems you are intent on making it seem like I am here to argue. In fact, I could really care less if you agreed with me or not, but I am obviously trying to learn about film music and the composers behind them, and who better to study than Williams himself?

Quote: "as I can tell he/she is the type"

Saying that about anything is ignorant and an assumption. Please don't make it about me, if at least out of some respect.

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Jeku
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Posted: 7th Apr 2006 19:22
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Quote: "You have completely ignored every single thing that you needed to prove yourself in order for your theories to be correct."


There we go again. It would be impossible for me to "prove" that Matt Groening originally drew the Simpsons. It would be impossible for me to "prove" that Lee Bamber wrote the original DB. All I have is third party evidence. Do you see where I'm getting at?

But if someone comes along and says "Lee Bamber is a fake, he never wrote a single line of code and he got others to write his language for him. My proof is that other programmers collaborate, and it's impossible for DB to be made in X amount of days."

There is no oness on *ME* to prove that you are wrong, because no matter what site I go to, what document I bring up, etc., says that Lee Bamber wrote the original DB.

*YOU* are the one claiming something out of the realms of logical sense. John Williams has been nominated 45 times for an Oscar, and it clearly outlines how he works in many different sources. *NOWHERE* does it say he gets an army of composers to do his work for him.

You still have no evidence, other than "my ex music teacher knows him and he said blah blah blah". Wow, that's really compelling but there's this little problem with heresay. Don't you watch Judge Judy

And one more thing, I didn't claim he was a god. But Mozart wrote entire symphonies before aged 9--- does that mean he couldn't have done it by himself? He *MUST* have collaborated? You said so yourself that classical music is more difficult to write than film.

I'm done here by the way, I have to work at my real job and there's a bloody deadline today.


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Saikoro
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Posted: 7th Apr 2006 21:35
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You once again (unsuprisingly) did not understand.

According to the resources I brought up, the majority of film writers follow that procedure.

You say John Williams does not follow that procedure.

Therefore, you are saying that John Williams performs out of what is ordinary.

Do you understand that?

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David R
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Posted: 7th Apr 2006 23:59 Edited at: 8th Apr 2006 00:03
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Quote: "He has a team of writers that he appeals a theme to, has the first set of people write out the entire score front to back, then has another set of people re-write it for orchestra."


The composer usually writes the entirety of the theme (possibly with a partner of co-composers), usually adhering to a 'neutral' instrumentation and notation (e.g. suitable for a piano)

The Orchestrators then adapt this theme by writing separate sheet music for each and every instrument in the orchestra (usually a 72 or 64 piece) that is required to play the piece (this is a specialist job, and requires huge amounts of time). These guys do tend to adapt the music and add to it (to take advantage of specific instruments) but technically the core composer (e.g. John Williams in this case) wrote it.

So stop with the 'he didn't actually write it, loads of other people did' stuff

EDIT:
Quote: "Adolph Hitler."


Adolf Hitler

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Saikoro
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Posted: 8th Apr 2006 00:04 Edited at: 8th Apr 2006 00:08
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Quote: "So stop with the 'he didn't actually write it, loads of other people did' stuff"

This is the last time I am saying this.

I already admitted it yesterday.

I am now just trying to find out how Jeku knows that Williams doesn't follow film writer's procedure. So please, stop with the false accusations.

EDIT: In fact, here is the quote where I admitted it.
Quote: "If indeed I said that he does not write his own music - I would like to take that back and say that, as I have previously stated, he is given a theme, type of sound, dynamic, and emotion to work with before he even begins composing, writes it on piano, and gives it to a team of people to orchestrate it (though he may do some of it as well)."


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Jeku
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Posted: 8th Apr 2006 01:30
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Quote: "I am now just trying to find out how Jeku knows that Williams doesn't follow film writer's procedure. So please, stop with the false accusations."


Okay wait, you said that I said he didn't follow procedure. All I know is from what I read, and there is nothing in there out of the ordinary. You were obviously chastizing Williams and singling him out for this. Obviously he would be smart to follow best practices, but considering he is the grand poombah of film composers, I'd predict the rest of the industry follows his lead.

As for your ex music teacher--- maybe you should email him and get a clarification on what he meant by his accusations, which quite frankly are pretty strong.


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Saikoro
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Posted: 8th Apr 2006 01:50
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I may do that, because if what he told me was false, then perhaps a few other things he said were false as well (though most else he said, I've heard said by Bernstein, and I know he tells the truth like no other). I also realize that the rest of the industry would for the most part follow his lead - in fact I've stated that previously. The thing I was trying to point out in all of this is the fact that Williams' film music is in fact not his true music at all. In the literal sense, yes, but not in the way that, say, Beethovens or Stravinskys was. However, I am certain that he has works outside of the music industry, and those should be given a listen to hear how he truly feels about music. I also wasn't chastizing and singling him out for following procedure, more wondering why you said he didn't. But I think its safe to say we've found a medium stance on this whole subject.

I mean Williams no disrespect, nor you, Jeku, for what I have seen this has just been misunderstanding upon misunderstanding. In fact, I am suprised to have finally gotten into a debate with someone without the other person resort to low-handed tactics and name-calling without reason. This is the least offended I've felt in a debate.

@David R

If you're such a stickler for spelling Hitlers name correctly, perhaps you can go around and find the 100 misspellings of Saikoro on this board as well and correct them.

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BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 8th Apr 2006 04:34
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There's a time when it really just doesn't matter anymore.


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