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Geek Culture / anyone know when 64 bit pcs will be around??

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David iz cool
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Posted: 19th Apr 2006 04:32
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will they start becoming available in a year or less??

also ,anyone know if dbp will be supported for 64bit pcs later?


last question,how fast is a 64 bit pc?? compared to 32??
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ionstream
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Posted: 19th Apr 2006 04:33
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I think they'll be available when the Star Wars Episode I is released.

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CattleRustler
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Posted: 19th Apr 2006 04:35
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twice as many bits as 32.

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Les Horribres
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Posted: 19th Apr 2006 04:52
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@CattleRustler

Also depends on the software running.

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hyrichter
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Posted: 19th Apr 2006 05:50
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Umm, last I checked on Newegg, the only AMD chips available were 64 bit. I don't have a 64 bit processor myself, so I don't know about performance, and I don't understand exactly what 64 bits will do for us that 32 bits won't, except that 64 bits is 8 bytes, and 8 bytes can store a very very very large number.


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indi
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Posted: 19th Apr 2006 05:52
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i run twin 2500mhz 64bit cpus but its not windaz.
soon it will be 4 cpus all dual core at 3000mhz

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Les Horribres
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Posted: 19th Apr 2006 06:00
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I have a 64 bit processor... on a 32 bit computer. lol. stupid compaq.

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 19th Apr 2006 11:22
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I've got 2 Turion 64bit laptops - waiting to get a new hard drive and a copy of XP x64 now...

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BatVink
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Posted: 19th Apr 2006 11:59
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Quote: "last question,how fast is a 64 bit pc?? compared to 32?? "


The number of bits doesn't determine the speed. It will affect the amount of data being thrown around, and consequently improve performance. But bits in themselves aren't a speed indicator.

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 19th Apr 2006 12:52 Edited at: 19th Apr 2006 13:01
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My Amd chip is 64bit. Came with my motherboard. AMD 3000+.

My motheroboard has a strange slot for some new chips that are soon to be released. K8 939 pin whatever they are...

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IanG
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Posted: 19th Apr 2006 12:55
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a 64bit processor running a 32bit os tends to run anything upto 40 or 50% faster in the best case on average around 25 0r 30% faster


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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 19th Apr 2006 13:06
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It will be interesting to see what x64 is like - I hadn't planned on getting it, but as I needed a new hard drive, and my XP Home installation CD had been lost, I needed a new OS...

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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 19th Apr 2006 13:18
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@IanG: I'm 90% sure that if you have a 64bit CPU on a 32bit OS, half your processor is actually doing bugger all. The only reason it probably run up to 50% quicker is because the 64bit CPU is newer and therefore has a higher clock speed and MAYBE more onboard cache!


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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 19th Apr 2006 14:07
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Yeah. I think that 64bit isn't really ready yet, so the 64bit chip isn't doing anything that a 32bit chip can't do. They are currently excactly the same.

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John Y
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Posted: 19th Apr 2006 15:33 Edited at: 19th Apr 2006 15:34
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Quote: "My motheroboard has a strange slot for some new chips that are soon to be released. K8 939 pin whatever they are..."


They have been out for a while, AM2 is the next one coming soon.


When you are running Windows 32bit, as Nicholas said, half of your processor is unused. But, as it is 3Ghz or whatever, it still is fast; it would just be faster if you ran XP x64, which is good apart from only like 3 people in the world have it. Hence, no drivers


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David iz cool
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Posted: 19th Apr 2006 15:55
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well i plan to get one sometime,i heard something about them doubling the speed of pcs.i think the top speed right now is 3.2 ghz.not sure though.with 64 bit wouldnt it be 6.4 ghz??

im wondering what the framerate in my game will be like,maybe it will be too fast?
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David R
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Posted: 19th Apr 2006 16:12 Edited at: 19th Apr 2006 16:21
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Also, a 64-bit processor can address roughly 400,000 times more memory than a 32 bit one can. Meaning that you won't be limited to 4gb of memory anymore - once 64-bit becomes mainstream, its likely you'll end up with a couple of hundred gig of RAM

But without a 64-bit operating system, this, nor the possible performance increase is possible

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David iz cool
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Posted: 19th Apr 2006 16:18
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also most software dont support 64 bit yet.
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 19th Apr 2006 16:28
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Anyone know if, when DarkGDK is updated, and a 64-bit project is created (and using IA-64 libraries), whether the GDK can still be used properly ? Ie having a 64-bit executable call a 32-bit library ?

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CattleRustler
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Posted: 19th Apr 2006 16:36
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Quote: "@CattleRustler
Also depends on the software running"


you misunderstood my post, I was merely stating that 64 bits are twice as many bits as 32. I wasnt implying that a 64 bit machine is always twice as fast as a 32 bit machine, thats why I didn't quote his post before I said that.

consider my comment back there "the new sarcasm". It's 50% sarcasm and 50% random - all mixed together.



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Raven
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Posted: 19th Apr 2006 18:27
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Generally speaking 64bit is for now just something to boast that your PC can do, rather than something that improves the performance of applications greatly.

This said...
AMD Athlon XP 1.8GHz = Pentium IV 2.5GHz
AMD Athlon 64 1.8GHz = Pentium IV 2.8GHz

So there is obviously some performance increase. There isn't likely to be a huge performance boost until it becomes better supported really. Unlike the jump between 16bit and 32bit where it changed for the most part how processors worked.

What improves speed more is actually more Cores.

AMD Athlon 64 2.2GHz = Pentium IV 3.2GHz
AMD Athlon 64 X2 2.2GHz = Pentium IV 4.2GHz

Then again the number of pins, cooling, etc. also will help determin this performance difference. Other little enhancements that are processor based like SIMD (Streaming Data, so that you can have more than a single peice of data per register) and Hyper-Threading (provides support to use more of the CPU resource if not being used, because on adverage you only use a certain amount of processor for a single operation; sort of like how your brain only uses like 10% of it's capacity.. hyper-threading allows it to use a bit more, only like another 10% or something, but it still helps data processing speeds.)

Processors have come a long way since the 16bit 286 days.

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Neofish
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Posted: 19th Apr 2006 19:50
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Quote: "I have a 64 bit processor... on a 32 bit computer. lol. stupid compaq."

erm how?

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 19th Apr 2006 20:14
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32 bit Windows probably. Same as me.

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Neofish
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Posted: 19th Apr 2006 20:37
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computer != OS

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Raven
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Posted: 19th Apr 2006 23:01
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It might as well mean that nowadays though.
I mean we no longer refer to x86 Computers as 'IBM-Compatibles' in-fact more often than not they're dubbed as 'Windows Computers'

Given you basically have MacOSX (Mac PPC), MacOSX86 (Mac x86) and Windows (x86) as the main OS's; you might as well start to reffering to them by the OS rather than Processor or Computer.
Cause PC-CD/PC-DVD which games tag it as, could mean anything.

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Saikoro
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Posted: 20th Apr 2006 05:27
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Quote: "i think the top speed right now is 3.2 ghz.not sure though.with 64 bit wouldnt it be 6.4 ghz??"

My 32 bit PC runs at 3.6 Ghz, non-overclocked.

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Raven
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Posted: 20th Apr 2006 17:14
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Top Performance processor I believe is the Athlon64 FX-58 3.2GHz 5200+

but that was like 3months ago, so it's probably been over shadowed by one of the Dual Cores.

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 21st Apr 2006 00:03
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I'm thinking of building a cube of processors... Cool.


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TKF15H
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Posted: 21st Apr 2006 03:10
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The thing I like most about 64 bit processors is not the extra 32 bits but the fact that they have 16 general purpose registers, compared to the 8 currently available. This may mean less memory access. To me it means easier and faster Dreamcast emulation.

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mm0zct
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Posted: 21st Apr 2006 13:12
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i have windows x64 (180 day trial but i couldn't get xp home to install on this mobo) which means i can play 64bit versions of far cry and all the source engine games, i have to say that i've noticed a bit of a performance gain for the 64bit software, maybe not even 10-20% but (although it could just be wishful thinking) it's there.

AMD athlon 64 3000+, 1GB ddr400, 400GB total hdd, ati radeon x700pro 256mb (pci-e), onboard nvidea graphics (6100 chipset, sharing 128mb ram) 3x17" tft(@1280x1024).
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Darth Vader
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Okay I am going to ask the dumbest question here. What exactly is a bit and how do 32 bit and 64 bit compare?

I do know basic computer tech but somethings are a little beyond me!

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 21st Apr 2006 13:30 Edited at: 21st Apr 2006 13:31
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A bit is a binary 1 or 0 (or an electrical current if you will).

There are two main differences between 32 & 64 bit processors - the amount of memory they can address (64 bit can address more). The 64 bit processors have extra commands, to help deal with dodgy software, called Data Execution Prevention. In 64 bit processors, this is in hardware. In 32 bit processors, this is in software.

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Les Horribres
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Posted: 21st Apr 2006 13:44
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@Neofish: I had only found out after I bought the thing that although Compaq was using 64 bit processors, they still hadn't upgraded their motherboard supplier. So you get a 64bit processor in a 32 bit computer.

@Raven: Generally speaking, what is going on now is optimization. They have slowed down a bit on pushing processors, so now they are fixing anything that can be fixed in their design.

And thank you for confirming once again how AMD kicks Pentiums ass. Too many pentium boys out there now-a-days, but I am curious what makes AMD operate at a higher GigaHertz then it is labeled as.

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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 21st Apr 2006 14:14
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@OnePost - Surely putting a 64bit processor into a 32bit motherboard (putting asside the pin differences) would result in a PC which makes a nice clicking noise when you press the power button and maybe a bit of beeping thereafter if you're lucky!!

I do love it when you see these adverts by PC World and Dixons (popular places in the UK where stupid people buy PC's) and they say things like "CONTAINS THE LATEST 64BIT PROCESSORS FOR TH ULTIMATE IN GAMING EXPERIENCE" and then they forget to tell you that its running WinXP 32bit. Then you get all these l33t kiddies in Half Life saying "OH I HAVE A 64BIT MACHINE THAT PWNS URS!!!"


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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 21st Apr 2006 14:36
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Quote: "@Neofish: I had only found out after I bought the thing that although Compaq was using 64 bit processors, they still hadn't upgraded their motherboard supplier. So you get a 64bit processor in a 32 bit computer."


I don't think that it's possible.

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Raven
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Posted: 21st Apr 2006 15:18
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Quote: "And thank you for confirming once again how AMD kicks Pentiums ass. Too many pentium boys out there now-a-days, but I am curious what makes AMD operate at a higher GigaHertz then it is labeled as."


There's 2 things that allow AMD Processors to achieve higher performance from less core speed.

1 • Standard Intel Chips are still strictly based on their original x86, meaning that the processor still only performs only 4 Operations Per Cycle, where-as AMD changed their design with Athlon from 4 Ops to 7 Ops. This basically means it can process more raw data in a single cycle.

2 • More Memory Bandwidth. Top-End Pentium IV Processors (even Pentium D) use DDR @ ~850MHz (1.7GHz@128bit), this is done using a half-duplex interface; most AMD Processors use DDR2 @ ~1GHz (2GHz@128bit) using a full-duplex interface.

That's probably one of the most basic overviews of the major differences you'll find.

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Lukas W
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Posted: 21st Apr 2006 16:18 Edited at: 21st Apr 2006 16:19
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3 • AMD sound way cooler when spoken by its real name 'advanced micro systems' while pentium means.. 5?

-what processor do you have?
-oh, i got a 5.
-o rely
-ya why?
-i got an advanced micro system processor

my forum - still in development
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Jeku
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Posted: 21st Apr 2006 19:13
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Quote: "advanced micro systems"


Because that stands for AMD

I do not see the point in upgrading to WinXP 64, as it is difficult to find drivers and compatible software for almost everything today. The industry is slow on this one.


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Raven
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Yeah, too damn slow... it's definately hindering the up-take.
Thank god AMD took the "64-bit Processor with 32-bit Processing Compatibility" rather than Intel's "64-bit Processor only" route.

I think it's probably why the 386 was able to push the industry at the time, because 32bit was an extension rather than a requirement.

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 21st Apr 2006 21:10
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Apparently, x64 XP is based on Windows 2003

I'm busy installing it now... x64, thats is.

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IanG
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Quote: "AMD sound way cooler when spoken by its real name 'advanced micro systems'"

you mean devices - amd=advance micro devices, which makes sense as they make chips which are devices, where as system implies computer

Quote: "What exactly is a bit and how do 32 bit and 64 bit compare"

a bit is like a switch, it can either be on or off, or 1 or 0. 32 bit means that it is 32 bits lined up next to each other, 64 bit means there are 64 bits lined up. Know the differences, you can store a bigger binary number in 64 bits than you can in 32 bits, so it means that a 64 bit computer can access more memory as it has more space for memory addresses(more binary numbers). From a performance point of view, if you have a 64bit doing the same task as the 32bit, it will complete it before the 32bit because it can process more bits at the same time.

just a bit of random information the difference between the bit being 1 and 0 is due to its voltage, to be on (or 1) it has to be over 2 volts(could be 5 i cant remember) and to be off it is anything under the said number - so how does it know how many bits it is getting?(i hear you ask) well its to do with the clock speed of the processor, the clock pulses at the speed of the processor and the processor looks at the incoming signal of bits at every pulse of the clock, therefore knowing how many bits it has recieved.

(im aware this might not be excatly technically accurate, but im trying to make it easy to consume)


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Darth Vader
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2006 08:36
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Thanks!

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indi
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iirc the timing clock is a crystal with electricity flowing thorugh it creating a timed electrical pulse. thats hippyness in your tech savvy cpu

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Les Horribres
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Quote: " thats hippyness in your tech savvy cpu"


My... cpu... has HIPPIENESS??? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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Steve J
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MERRANVO MASS SPAMS AGAIN . IanG was spot on. 64 bit pc's have been around since 2001-2002 right?

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