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Geek Culture / Building a computer and I would like some advice please

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The Lone Programmer
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2006 03:26
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I was going to purchase parts to build a monster computer, but I needed some advice.

I have never built a computer before, and I have never owned an actual PC. I've spent my whole life living off of Laptops.

I would like to build a PC that is incredibly fast with the specs to play the best of games with no lag. I want it to boot very fast, run applications very fast.


Here is what I planned on getting, but I would like approval. FYI but I am a Pentium guy:

Intel Pentium D 930 800Mhz-FSB LGA775 Dual-Core Processor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819116238

Sapphire Radeon X1800XT 100154 Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102007

Antec TruePower 2.0 TP2-550 EPS12V 550W Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817103932

Cooler Master Centurion 5 CAC-T05-WW Black/Silver Computer Case With Side Panel Window
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811119077

Maxtor MaxLine III 7L300R0 300GB 7200 RPM IDE Ultra ATA133 Hard Drive - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16822144237

ASUS P5WD2-E Premium Socket T (LGA 775) Intel 975X ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813131589

Patriot eXtreme Performance 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Unbuffered System Memory Model PEP21G6400LL - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16820220142


Am I missing any necessary parts? Do the parts that I picked match each others compatability? Are these parts ideal for a monster rig?

I think my bigest concern is whether or not each part is compatible with the other part. I don't know how to check. I also don't know how to check if the Motherboard supports SLI (Two Graphics Cards).


Please give me your thoughts on what I am going to hopefully purchase soon. I would like to be able to play games such as Oblivian and F.E.A.R. Also any other games that may come out with even better graphics.


Thanks,
The Lone Programmer.

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mm0zct
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2006 05:04 Edited at: 23rd Apr 2006 05:29
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any particular reason for intel? personally i think AMD are much better for the gaming scene.

personally you say you want to check if a motherboard supports SLI but bought an ATI card, i think you are looking for crossfire.

if it has 2 pci-e x16 ports then it will support 2 graphics cards, if it mentions sli or crossfire then it will support that. crossfire will only work on a crossfire board (look for an ati chipset), sli on an sli board (look for an nvidea chipset).

also don't get an ide hard disk, get a sata disk, if you can afford it get a sata2 hard disk, that'll require you to get a motherboard that supports it.
i'm just browsing through that list to check compatabilities..

edit: that board has sata2 bt the 2 pci-e slots will only let yuo use the 2 graphics cards to run 4 monitors, no sli or crossfire suppotr that i can see.

this board supports sli for 2 nvidea cards operating together
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813135225
this supports sata2 gigabit lan etc etc.. it also dosen't say it suppotrs support that cpu though:
http://www.ecs.com.tw/ECSWeb/Products/ProductsDetail.aspx?MenuID=16&LanID=9&DetailID=584&DetailName=CPU%20Support

maybe one of them instead?
a jump to AMD would improve the options a lot, especially for crossfire.
eg http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813154009
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131584
or sli
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813138253

AMD athlon 64 3000+, 1GB ddr400, 400GB total hdd, ati radeon x700pro 256mb (pci-e), onboard nvidea graphics (6100 chipset, sharing 128mb ram) 3x17" tft(@1280x1024).
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Represent
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2006 09:02
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DO NOT GET THAT CPU! It is horrible and overheats exTREMELY. You will need alot of cooling for that thing and it performs liek crap for a x2 core. Get AMD. Much cooler, cheaper, and in benchmarks I have read about that CPU, it sucks.

Patriot RAM is very good but check out G.Skill RAM. Same performance but better prices.

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The Lone Programmer
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2006 09:39 Edited at: 23rd Apr 2006 10:05
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I have never used an AMD CPU so I am very affraid when it comes to spending all the money on one.

Modest Mouse
How are you so certain that CPU I picked is so bad? Do you have it? Know a friend that has it? It had good ratings, so that is why I picked it out. Give me some details on what makes AMD so much better. Also give me some details on how to shop for AMD processors. I know Pentiums go by number and then ghz. How do AMD's go?

EDIT: Look at this link. It agree's the AMD is way faster, but it says Intel is way safer. I think I would rather put my money towards safe than speed.
http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=1194


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The Lone Programmer

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Steve J
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2006 10:13
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Thats an Article from 02... Amd have since blasted intel. Intel dont overheat as often, but if you build your own sys, that shouldnt be an issue.

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mm0zct
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2006 13:38 Edited at: 23rd Apr 2006 13:42
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safer? maybe if you try and overclock it but in all my years of using AMD processors i have had no problems, besides athlon64 processors ARE safer for the user becuse they have memory execution prevention, basically making it much harded for viruses to infect your system online.

AMD uses a numbering system which reflects it's performance level, if you are going for a good machine ignore the semprons and focus on the 939pin athlon64. the dual core range are are the X2 models and the really performance chips are the fx models, but i'm not sure spending that much money is wise.
standard single core athlon64s are still very powerful and i think you're looking in the 4000+ and greater end of their model range, but this is up to your budget, with an athlon64 you are looking for DDR-400 (PC3200) with low CAS latency ie a CL of 2 or 2.5.
athlon's clock speed you will probably notice is lower than intels, this is because athlons do more instructions per clock, don't think you are being short changed.

i'd just like to point out that that article is old and refers to old socketA athlonXPs, the ocket format has been outdated twice and the new generation of athlons are far superior.

AMD athlon 64 3000+, 1GB ddr400, 400GB total hdd, ati radeon x700pro 256mb (pci-e), onboard nvidea graphics (6100 chipset, sharing 128mb ram) 3x17" tft(@1280x1024).
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Fallout
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2006 13:54
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@The Lone Programmer

That article was published in 2002, so you might as well totally ignore it. 4 years in the IT industry is a long long time. Like you, I was a pentium user. From my first p75, to p90, p700 then p2.2. Then after enough people had kept telling me AMD was a lot better than it was and was now better than Pentium, I decided to look into it. Now I have an AMD4000+ and I'm very happy with it. The are no reliability issues with AMD that I am aware of, and mine has performed flawlessly.

As for telling speed, AMDs run at a lower clock rate to Pentiums that have a similar performance. I think they purposes call them confusing names like 4000 so that you draw a comparion between them and Pentium compos with a similar clock speed. I think the best way to check performance is just to google it and find comparison reviews etc. I dont think it's possible to Take P3.8 and an AMD running at 2.2GHz and draw a comparison from the stats. You need a review.

The only other suggestion I would make for your compo is 2GB of ram rather than 1. And personally I'm a bigger fan of GeForce cards than Radeon, but that's for similar reasons to the whole CPU loyalty thing.

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mm0zct
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2006 15:37 Edited at: 23rd Apr 2006 15:40
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ati perform better at high resolutions with AA and AF on but nvidea seem to do better with raw framerates. that's just a huge generalisation but nvidea cards have a huge performance hit if you turn on AA and AF, ati cards handle it much better
this should help
http://tomshardware.co.uk/2005/12/02/vga_charts_viiiuk/

AMD athlon 64 3000+, 1GB ddr400, 400GB total hdd, ati radeon x700pro 256mb (pci-e), onboard nvidea graphics (6100 chipset, sharing 128mb ram) 3x17" tft(@1280x1024).
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The Lone Programmer
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2006 19:44
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I've had geForce in every computer I've ever used. I've never actually used a Radeon card before, but all my gamer buddies say that it kills all the other cards. So I thought its time for me to give it a shot.

As for CPU loyalty, I am not loyal to Intel. I am honestly just very affraid to change. I have never used AMD, and I am deeply affraid to risk $500 on an AMD CPU and Motherboard.

I would like to have 2GB of RAM, but my budget for this computer is running rather small. I don't even have enough for a Flatscreen monitor. I am going to hook up a hand-me-down monitor that someone gave me. (A big giant crappy monitor). I am also getting hand-me-down dvd drives, floppy drives. My budget went towards the extreme parts.

Can someone build me a comparison chart, with HONEST facts between the Intel and AMD chips. Like:
Pentium 4 3.0Ghz = AMD Athelon blah blah blah

So that way I know what equals what, so I can scout as far as prices go.


Thanks,
The Lone Programmer

"Is The Juice Worth The Squeeze"
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2006 23:34
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I read a recent review over the dual core cpu's from intel. they idle at 50-60 degrees Celcius and max out at 70 when gaming. That is kinda pushing it when an AMD ranges from 30-60 max. Plus intel is overpriced. AMD is much cheaper.

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The Lone Programmer
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Posted: 24th Apr 2006 02:25
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Ok,
I just bought this hard drive:

Maxtor Ultra16 250GB Hard Drive ATA/133
http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=316138&pfp=BROWSE

The hard drive should work for this motherboard correct?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813131589

I mean the motherboard says its compatible with ATA/100 so wouldnt the hard drive just be slowed down? Or will it not work at all?

I know SATA is better, but for the price, I am satisfied. 250GB for $60 is good for me.

So will it work out?


Thanks,
The Lone Programmer

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Posted: 24th Apr 2006 04:23
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yes it will just operated at a slower speed i believe

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mm0zct
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Posted: 24th Apr 2006 16:33
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iirc all ata devices should work on any ata controller if they use the standard ide connector, the speed will just be determined by whichever is slowest, the controller or the device.
here (UK) sata and pata hard disks are about the same price last time i checked so there was no benifits to getting a pata drive if you have a sata controller. that's very cheap for a 250gb hdd, i want to live where you do!

AMD athlon 64 3000+, 1GB ddr400, 400GB total hdd, ati radeon x700pro 256mb (pci-e), onboard nvidea graphics (6100 chipset, sharing 128mb ram) 3x17" tft(@1280x1024).
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The Lone Programmer
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Posted: 26th Apr 2006 00:50
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Well,
I have just purchased the parts for my new computer

Here is everything that will be put into my computer:


SAPPHIRE 100154 Radeon X1800XT 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102007
Item #: N82E16814102007

Intel Pentium D 930 Presler 800MHz FSB LGA 775 Dual Core Processor Model BX80553930
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819116238
Item #: N82E16819116238

CORSAIR XMS2 1GB (2 x 512MB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Unbuffered Dual Channel Kit System Memory Model TWIN2X1024A-6400
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145566
Item #: N82E16820145566

ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro CPU Cooler
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835186134
Item #: N82E16835186134

ASUS P5WD2-E Premium Socket T (LGA 775) Intel 975X ATX Intel Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813131589
Item #: N82E16813131589

COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-WW Black/Silver Aluminum Bezel, SECC Chassis ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811119077
Item #: N82E16811119077

Maxtor Ultra16 250GB Hard Drive ATA/133
http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=316138&pfp=BROWSE

Antec TruePower 2.0 TP2-550 EPS12V 550W Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817103932

Hope it all works out.

Any good game recommendations. I know I am definately going to buy F.E.A.R. and Oblivion. What other crazy good games are there that are of top of the lines specs?

The Lone Programmer

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indi
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Posted: 26th Apr 2006 06:04
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spend the money on a nice apple powerbook and have windows XP and mac osx on the one machine while being portable. ahh the good life.!

If no-one gives your an answer to a question you have asked, consider:- Is your question clear.- Did you ask nicely.- Are you showing any effort to solve the problem yourself 
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Steve J
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Posted: 26th Apr 2006 08:02
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dude: intel dual core (sucks, performs horribly with games. I have had so many issues with the machine I have it in, it isnt funny.) ATI - self explains. Rest fine. 2 bad choices.

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xtom
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Posted: 26th Apr 2006 20:31
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I just finished building my new system last week. Came to a total of €1100 and it's the bees knees It runs oblivion with high graphics perfectly. I built it around the graphics card which was a geforce 7600gt, I got a sli motherboard for a simple but powerful future upgrade option, a 3200 AMD processor for only €160 and plenty good with the gfx card and 1gb of ram. Oh and I got a high quality flat 19" monitor included in that price too for €358 (dearest item but worth it). I know it would beat a lot of off the shelf pc's worth €2000 and more.


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Lukas W
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Posted: 26th Apr 2006 22:53 Edited at: 26th Apr 2006 22:56
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you forgot a soundcard dude :/ i would get a SB X-FI Elite, probably the best performance soundcard there is today. it costs about the same as that graphics card you selected.

http://soundblaster.com/products/product.asp?category=1&subcategory=208&product=14064

my forum - still in development
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David R
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Posted: 26th Apr 2006 22:54
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Quote: "you forgot a soundcard dude :/ i would get a SB X-FI Elite, probably the best performance soundcard there is today. it costs about the same as that graphics card you selected.
"


Most ASUS motherboards come with a pretty decent onboard sound card (usually a c-media or realtek) so I assume this is what he's already getting

Quote: "Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all."
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Lukas W
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Posted: 26th Apr 2006 22:57
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oh i see

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The Lone Programmer
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Posted: 27th Apr 2006 00:07
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I have heard mixed reviews on the Pentium Dual Core. A buddy of mine somehow managed to get one for his laptop and it plays Oblivion pretty perfectly. So I have to wonder. Also other reviews say it is very fast. The only negative thing I've seen from buyers is the fact that it overheats very easily. They recommended a certain fan for it which I purchased. They say this fan solves the problem.

The ASUS board comes with an onboard soundcard. I honestly see no difference in sound cards. I can see no reason to change between cheap ones and expensive ones, since too me the sound is the same. Most of the time I game with my PC on mute.

Indi
Sorry man, but I honestly think apples were the biggest mistake mankind has made. The only product that I have ever liked from apple is the IPod. My iPod is awesome, and I couldn't be happier with it.


Undercover Steven
I have NEVER used an ATI card before. I have never used one on my buddies computers. What I do know is that they say it is like the greatest gaming card. Don't know if that is true because the usual case is that people don't try both sides of the story. In this case, I mean they probably never used an NVidia before. I honestly am not happy with NVidia. I think they are rather slow, performance wise. Just thought I would try something new.


These are the specs to the laptop that I've been using for the last three years:
- Dell Inspiron 5150 Notebook
- Windows XP Professional Service Pack 2
- 17" LCD Screen 1500x1050 Resolution
- Intel Pentium 4 3.2Ghz with Hyper Threading Technology
- 64MB NVidia GeForce FX Go5200
- 1.2GB DDR RAM
- 80GB 5400rpm Hard Drive

So hopefully this new PC is a lot quicker and better than the one I am using now.

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Killswitch
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Posted: 27th Apr 2006 00:14
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ATI's top end card kicks nVidias top card arse up and down the benchmarking tests - at the moment.

~Heed my word hobags: Jism~
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indi
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Posted: 27th Apr 2006 03:09
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Quote: "Indi
Sorry man, but I honestly think apples were the biggest mistake mankind has made. The only product that I have ever liked from apple is the IPod. My iPod is awesome, and I couldn't be happier with it."


and you take so many things your PC does today due to apples frontier development.

first personal computer
first color monitor
first Floppy Disk Drive
first mouse
first speech technology
first animation technology
first plug and play
first laserwriter
first foreign language upport
first color matching screen, scanner, printer
first soundsupport
first color matching screen, scanner, printer
first sound input
first virtual reality
first 3.5 Disk Drive
first virtual programing / hypercard
first CD-Rom
first Built in Networking
rograming / hypercard
first CD-Rom
firsMouse
Built in Networking


the list goes on and on.

heh and now your on a game dev forum getting help to build a pc.<---

I dont value your opinion on macs, but i dont dismiss your opinion about computers, I know its ignorance that fuels your assumptions.

good luck building your puta!

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Jeku
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Posted: 27th Apr 2006 03:23 Edited at: 27th Apr 2006 03:24
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@indi - Nice list, but not all of them are true (and there are many repeats). First personal computer? The Altair was released before the Apple I BTW.

First CD-ROM -- not sure where you get this. Philips developed CD and CD-ROM technology--- Apple is nowhere to be found on that invention list.

First mouse--- and again, Apple didn't invent the mouse. They may be the first computer to have a mouse, but that doesn't prove anything really. A little known fact is that Microsoft actually holds the patent on the mouse.

First virtual reality--- what defines this? The only virtual reality I've seen was back in the late 90's at Playdium they had this headset you could wear and you lay down in a hammock-type aparatus and flew around a canyon. Again, didn't see Apple there.

Don't forget that Apple was the original company that "borrowed" tons of ideas and inventions from Xerox PARC research lab.


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indi
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yeah i know the mouse is a fuji xerox component.

I didnt know however micorsoft owns the patent, doesnt mean they created the first one however.

i know they nipped the patent for the ipod wheel a couple of weeks before apple listed it.


Im happy with my rigs even if some of them are apple. I made $1500 AUD yesterday in 8 hours for two hotmail flash ads so i guess different strokes for different folks.

If no-one gives your an answer to a question you have asked, consider:- Is your question clear.- Did you ask nicely.- Are you showing any effort to solve the problem yourself &#63743;
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The Lone Programmer
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Posted: 27th Apr 2006 03:54
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Indi
I don't expect you to value my opinion on Apple computers. What I know is I don't like the interface, or design of the computer. Sure it may have been the first to a lot of stuff, but in my opinion it has become too limited. I wouldn't exactly call myself a Microsoft fan, but their technology has been evolving outward.
Quote: "I know its ignorance that fuels your assumptions."

I have to agree with you. That is why I leaned toward the reviews of people who have used both types of parts when I built my computer. A user who has only used AMD and says AMD is the best is full of crap. They can't make an assumption that Intel is not as good without using it themselves. Same for graphics cards, Operating Systems, ect.

Jeku
Thanks for backing me up a little.

One last thing.

Indi
How are you making $1500 for two hotmail ads? Are you designing their appearance, or are they price per click ads? However you are doing it, I praise you because that is quite a bit of money in a short period of time. Wish my luck turned out to be like that.


The Lone Programmer

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Steve J
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Two months from now the new nvidia card will be released, which "should" kill ati's new one.
Intel cards are good for processing multiple apps, and amd are best for games.

my 2 cents.

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indi
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Posted: 27th Apr 2006 05:20 Edited at: 27th Apr 2006 05:34
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I get passionate sometimes, dont mind me im a crazy aussie, no harm done.
I work for multinationals under a freelance capacity, this is the only way I can secure those larger roles. A lot of time I'm hired to repair Fark ups made by IT "gurus".

I just got an email from mrlightfoot who owns www.graf-x.com.au, he owns the APAC yamaha contract and a few other amazing clients, he wants to head hunt me from my agency, woot! rich business men fighting over my skillzorz! ahh life is great.
I own all sorts of computers, each one has strengths and weaknesses.

AMD is a good choice for gaming and overall Windows Experience, but my twin water cooled 2500mhz g5 with gigs of ram and spastic ATI monster card plus a 1.25 ghz fsb does crumple the hearts of many PC players in Call of Duty Expansion when i dance around them, even if i have a 200 ping playing against yanks under the pacific ocean.
I get the next 4 gigs of ram soon, this machine will have 8 gigs
I want to change the AGP card to a PCIX, the 9800xt is good but could do better.
I cant wait for the long VGA cable so I can dock it with my 42 inch 6th gen plasma screen.

good luck in your choice, sorry if i came off a bit one sided.

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Jeku
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Posted: 27th Apr 2006 06:47
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Yah, at work we're getting new 24" LCD screens, but I prefer the dual 19" LCDs


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The Lone Programmer
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Posted: 27th Apr 2006 08:43
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What would make one processor good for games and another good for multiple applications? Why wouldn't they even out?

Undercover Steven
What you just stated is what I heard a lot of all of a sudden. It sounds pretty beleivable, but I can't imagine why they would be unbalanced like that. Intel's handling lots of applications and AMD handling games. What would be the main reason for them being good at certain things? I mean doesn't a game run the same as any program would?


The Lone Programmer

"Is The Juice Worth The Squeeze"
-The Girl Next Door
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Phaelax
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21
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Joined: 16th Apr 2003
Location: Metropia
Posted: 27th Apr 2006 11:00 Edited at: 27th Apr 2006 11:05
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as for the whole mouse ownership thing, the original designer tried to sell it to Xerox, who just laughed at the idea of a "mouse". Apple picked up on it and the rest is history.

Quote: "Plus intel is overpriced. AMD is much cheaper."

Not so true anymore, prices are pretty even these days. I was surprised the day I heard AMD ran cooler than Intel.


Ok, the Lone Programmer, here's my two cents.

- Processor, not even going to argue which is better. I'll just say avoid anything thats says cyrix, winchip, evergreen....
- GFX Card, personally I stick with Nvidia. I gave ATI a chance once and was not happy with their 9800 pro. Their own demos wouldn't even work with the card.
- HDD, I would never waste money on maxtors. I vote seagate the best and stick by them. Also liked IBM drives, back in the day when they made them themselves.
- PSU, Nothing wrong with the one you chose, I run true power myself. However, I would suggest taking a fair look at the Antec NeoHe PSU. Highest efficiency I've found
- case, i think anything with a window on it is hideously ugly.
- Mobo, Asus I like and what I currently use with my Pentium 4. Regardless of what reviews say, I'd never buy another Gigabyte. I've had two both for Athlon chips and had problems. They weren't cheapo boards either, and one in fact was their top dual athlon server board at the time. Stick with Asus. (i've been wanting to try an MSI board lately)
- Ram, never used Patriot but I've heard good things about it.


Quote: "at work we're getting new 24" LCD screens, but I prefer the dual 19" LCDs "


oh no, you poor thing.


Quote: "I have never used AMD, and I am deeply affraid to risk $500 on an AMD CPU and Motherboard."

I've run everything from the 486DX chips to the very first Athlons and TBirds, dual Athlon MP, and currently P4 prescott. Only problem I've had with Athlons were with the Gigabyte boards. I'm still trying to get an old Tyan server board so I can once again run my dual athlons. I see no real problems running either AMD or Intel, but Apple's switch to Intel does leave me with a thought to consider looking towards Intel more.


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Represent
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Joined: 24th Dec 2003
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Posted: 30th Apr 2006 06:15
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I'm got an AMD Opteron 144 @ 1.8ghz and pushing it to 2.2 easily. high recommendation. Stock everything and no volt changes, cheap ram, and it can go all the way to 3.0 ghz with no issues.

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