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Geek Culture / how do u guys finish games?

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David iz cool
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Posted: 30th Apr 2006 01:25
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i keep getting bored with mine & always stop working on it.what keeps u guys inspired???
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Aoneweb
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Posted: 30th Apr 2006 01:26
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I have never finished one, one day, one day.


Game resource forum and arcade, click sig.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 30th Apr 2006 01:26
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Some of us are hard-working, some aren't. Guess which category you fall into.

Tempest - P2P UDP Multiplayer Plugin (DBP/DBCe) - 71%
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soapyfish
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Posted: 30th Apr 2006 01:30
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I imagine making yourself a little to-do list and thinking of each coding session as completing a small task instead of coding a whole game might help. But I've never finished a game (well one, but that was painfully basic) but also never tried a to-do list.

I AM A MORON
and won't change my sig until I get off my oversized behind and finish a project.
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Aoneweb
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Posted: 30th Apr 2006 01:32
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Quote: "I imagine making yourself a little to-do list and thinking of each coding session as completing a small task instead of coding a whole game might help."

Thats good advice.


Game resource forum and arcade, click sig.
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Lukas W
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Posted: 30th Apr 2006 01:35
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i've only made small games. i call them finished because they are playable, and i managed my main goal of the game.

i'm currently in the work of my biggest game so far, with a story mode and stuff. been working on it for 2 months or something.

my forum - now partly finished
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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 30th Apr 2006 01:48
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I'm either going on work binges and working non-stop for hours, or I am slacking off and fooling around on MSN.


It's like a Megaton Cat radar, 24 hours a day.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 30th Apr 2006 01:52 Edited at: 30th Apr 2006 01:52
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Quote: "I'm either going on work binges and working non-stop for hours, or I am slacking off and fooling around on MSN."

Indeed, the latter being more common.

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 30th Apr 2006 01:53
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Hey, you don't SEE me when I'm at the "Work-Binge" stage.


It's like a Megaton Cat radar, 24 hours a day.
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Fallout
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Posted: 30th Apr 2006 02:01
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First off, design your game completely, so you know what you have to achieve. Secondly, make sure its worth putting effort into, else you'll get bored.

Which is exactly why I'm gonna sketch some firearms, work out some stats and figure out what character animations are required for em before I hit the sack.

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BatVink
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Posted: 30th Apr 2006 02:19
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Have 2 versions, 1.0 and 1.1. When you think of a new idea, put it on the 1.1 list. Otherwise, you'll never finish what you originally set out to do.

Have goals smaller than "finish game". For example, "Make Clickable Menu Buttons", and "Implement Health System". Make sure you recognise your goals, and give yourself a pat on the back or a beer when you accomplish them.



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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 30th Apr 2006 02:59
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Invest time, to same you time. By that I mean, write code that can reused project to project. When I used to use DB regularly, I wrote a cluster of code library includes. These includes handled all the mundane work for me. So starting a new project was trivial.

Motivation is tough one though. It's very easy to feel overwhelmed by a project. It's really beneficial to have a clear idea of what your aiming for. If you don't, a lot of time is wasted on issue that are't really that important. So breaking the program down into a list of features/objectives is the first step. Then take pen to paper and sketch out/ make notes about how it's to look (the screen layout), how things move, AI ideas etc etc.. The more detailed the design doc's the easier and quicker things tend to come together.


Play Hard! Play Basic!
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dark coder
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Posted: 30th Apr 2006 03:12
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enter competitions, without them i would never have finished any :p.

Hallowed are the ori.
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Oneka
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Posted: 30th Apr 2006 03:17
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Well I have been coding the same game for 3 years now...due to many times where I wasnt able to code...I havent got 3 years of work.....but I got it all straight now so no more excuses hopefully


Making better games everday!
Oh yeah and just so you know its Oh-nek-a not One-ka!
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The Nerd
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Posted: 30th Apr 2006 03:44 Edited at: 30th Apr 2006 03:46
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Well... I've been programming for... Well... Around 2-3 years now, and the only real projects I've ever finished is SpaceBattle Shootout(It can be found in the Announcement board) along with Particle Playground which made it to the Newsletter. But that's about it I worked longest on SpaceBattle Shootout though, around 3 month I think. Dunno... Just never got bored with it. It's like sometimes I just find THE project that doesn't start to bore me

-The Nerd

3D Arcade-like game:
SpaceBattle-Shootout
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 30th Apr 2006 03:56
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Quote: "i keep getting bored with mine & always stop working on it.what keeps u guys inspired???"


I finish games by not making repeat threads from a few months ago.

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Hawkeye
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Posted: 30th Apr 2006 04:07
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Easy. I don't finish games. Except one. Only, of course, it wasn't really finished oh sure, it took first place (and won me a copy of cshop, btw) but then again there were only two entries... *cough* blasted puzzle compo */cough*


I am but mad north north-west; when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw - Hamlet, Hamlet
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David iz cool
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Posted: 30th Apr 2006 04:16
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good ideas guys! thanks!
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 30th Apr 2006 07:30
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Having lots of projects at the same time will cause you to fail. Attempting a project that's way too hard will cause you to fail. Picking a project for which the best possible outcome is pointless will cause you to fail (like everyone trying to make basic compilers with DBP.
I plan out games before I even start them. I draw the levels or the world, the models, buildings, etc. I write out specific events and behaviors. That gives me focus and direction and allows me to solve problems before I even begin coding. Often, I'll code something on paper until I get it right. I never actually copy what I've written, but it's like I've already solved the problem so it's a breeze.

Also, I've found that there's a huge difference between 'almost ready' and 'fit for public consumption'. Whenever I think a game is nearly ready, I'll easily have 12 more work hours before it's suitable for other people to play.


Come see the WIP!
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Represent
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Posted: 30th Apr 2006 07:31
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never finished one game yet

Your signature has been erased by a mod because it's larger than 600x120...
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Xander
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Posted: 30th Apr 2006 07:32
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Just think how awesome it would be to have a complete game that you have created. Then work. But make small goals for every day so that it doesn't seem like you are overwhelmed and have to do everything at once. If you get bored programming, go to 3D modeling or texturing. If you get bored with that, go back to programming or do some concept sketches. If you feel yourself getting worn out, take a break for the rest of the day, let yourself recharge. Just keep the thought of your completed game in your head, work at it in small steps, and you'll accomplish your goal in the end. If I did, then you can.

Xander Moser - Bolt Software - Firewall
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Tachyon
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Posted: 1st May 2006 01:16 Edited at: 1st May 2006 01:18
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I have finished all my games that have gone futher than just an idea on the paper:
that's about 10 DBPRO games (and one java mobile game).
Now Im supporting/updating/bugsquashing 7 of them - that means that I feel 7 of them are good enough to live.

My advice: Make every game becouse of learning something new
Always aim higher and new things.

I started with 2d game as I wanted to, well make my first program
Then I made veeery simple3d game as I wanted to learn basic 3d commands.
Then I made a proper 3d game, arcade style, gameplay, highscores etc:
Then I made this and that and those (http://tachyon.arkku.net/games.html), and after making

my bowling game with ODE physics, I came up with this 48h compo which I made in 48 hours (today), just to experience something new, just like in others:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=77813&b=1
Now Im starting to make a mobile hurling game , in which I use advanced terrain, newton, shaders, and so on...

So always start to make something new, something to learn from, something to keep you inspired, if its not inspiring you, add features untill it inspires

Or maybe Im just a crazy penguin who cant stay still becouse of polar bears (I live in finland (Im joking )).

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 1st May 2006 02:24
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Quote: "Some of us are hard-working, some aren't. Guess which category you fall into."

Ben... you are my hero.

Anyway, When I finished the epic, groundbreaking, award-winning, awe-inspiring, fantastical blockbuster "Cheney Hunter," I did it through raw skill and an undying inspirational rush. Through my sacrifice, perceverance, blood, sweat, and tears, I was able to create what has been, by every mortals accounts, the greatest entertainment entity in the history of anything. And THAT, my friend, is what you need to get in order to accomplish your goals.

Okay, yeah, that was just a *little* bit sarcastic. In reality, all it took to finish Cheney Hunter was a few hours out of each afternoon for about three or four days, plus a few gallons of coca cola and a few slices of pizza. But eh, each person has their own methods


"In an interstellar burst, I'm back to save the universe"
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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 1st May 2006 03:22 Edited at: 1st May 2006 03:38
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I've discovered a wierd thing, rather late. The less I spend on the PC, the more I get done. Not going out and sitting at your PC for hours is absolutly the worst way to get creative work done. When I busted up my arm, I thought to myself "Great! 2 months of pure workage!" but I barely got anything done. Now I am back to my schedule, and making better use of my time.

While still being young and alot more naive than most of you established guys, I think life is all about variation. You CAN spend as many hours on the PC as you like, but you gotta balance that out with other things. So excersize, get some hobbies, read, find people to socialize with (not nessasarly the local pot-heads at your school) and still have that time to pwn the noobs at some game.

I've already talked about this abit with Ben on MSN, but I've really been getting into reading up on Religion. 1 year ago I wouldn't give two s**ts about what a bunch of guys thought about god, but now I really want to learn what makes religion tick. Could this be a sign of personal development and maturing?!? Who knows!

But anyway, I guess you can't really lump art and programming into the same catagory. x1b tries to be all hip and claim programming takes inspiration just like design, but you know it isn't like that. Fallout definatly knows his pre-production stuff though! He sent me a huge and well-organized design doc today of our game that's not only clear, but actually interesting to read.

Finishing things is alot about psycological stuff. The more work you take on, the harder it gets to get it done. When I have a huge workload, I just want to dump it of my chest and be free. When I have nothing, I am wishing a friend would come forward with an interesting project to work on. Right now I am at the "heavy" workload stage, and I intend to clear that crap off if it's the last thing I do.

(And get started on a uber DBP game)

edit: agh here it is again. I have a paper due tommorow, and instead of doing it I am on a forum lecturing about how to get things done.


It's like a Megaton Cat radar, 24 hours a day.
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David iz cool
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Posted: 1st May 2006 03:46
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very good ideas & tips guys! thank you very much!!

i think what keeps happening to me is i work so much on my game,i get burned out on it.& it starts to become mundane.

i think i need to take breaks from it & also breaks from using my pc too would probablly help.
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 1st May 2006 03:50
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Quote: "x1b tries to be all hip and claim programming takes inspiration just like design"

Programming is the science of it, the design is the art. So, I'd say that video game design takes inspiration, and the programming just takes skill. I can't be inspired by programming, but if I get inspired about an idea, then I'll apply my programming skills.

Programming does take a solid conceptual skill to be good at it, but that itself doesn't take inspiration, just practice.


Come see the WIP!
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Jeku
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Posted: 1st May 2006 05:32
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If you get too frustrated with a bug, take some time away from the game. I've found that if I come back later with a clearer mind I can spot the bug easier.

Today I'm running into a crazy difficult logic problem with ROBOI, and I seriously feel like kicking the wall in, but now I'm taking time off to browse the forums and listen to music Helps you to not get sick of a game and builds up your creativity juice or whatever.


Automaton Games website has been revamped! Check it out!
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Chris Franklin
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Posted: 1st May 2006 11:27
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yea mostlty what everyone is said but i just find it more fun using my own graphics and music e.t.c

Theme park simulator wip boards

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Scraggle
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Posted: 1st May 2006 11:36
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Quote: "i just find it more fun using my own graphics"

Have you ever used your own graphics? All the screenies you have shown are the work of David Gervais or Reiner Prokein!


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Chris Franklin
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Posted: 1st May 2006 12:07
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yea i've got a few here i'll upload them later infact here's 1 3d model i'm makig now to render and use as 2d

Theme park simulator wip boards

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Fallout
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Posted: 1st May 2006 14:01
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Yeah, the megs man definitely said it right. You need variation in your life. You need to be happy (definitely NOT bored) and have variation and structure. The more time you spend away from the compo, the more you'll get done while you're at it. When uni is rolling, I'm in uni by day. I try to play some footy, do a bit of mixing (which I've just taken up), go out for a smoke (I know, I know), watch some tele, go out and have a few drinks ... even going to the supermarket. The more things you do away from the compo the more productive you are when you get back.

Also, like I said before, design is key. You know what, this design doc Megs mentioned. Well, half the stuff in it I'd forgotten about. When I read it and updated it I was like "Wow. That's an awesome idea." I'd been thinking recently about how we were gonna make a certain aspect of the game a bit more unique and playable and gritty, and behold, I'd already worked that out 4 months earlier and it was clearly explained in the design doc. Now, if that isn't a motivator, I don't know what is.

Design, and variation in your day to day life. Hookers are good.

And Megs, don't sell yaself short man. You might be a young whipper snapper, but you speak the wise words of a Drake Drystan.

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adr
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Posted: 1st May 2006 14:25
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I've started so many games and not finished them, it's embarassing. There's only one benefit to come out of all of that; I've perfected a set of game libraries. For my most recent project (which I really will finish, blah blah blah) I copy and pasted in 3 libraries. I had to edit them a little bit, but that was only to make them more generic (less dependant on project-specific stuff). So, a process of refinement over the years has given me some plug and play code.

I guess now I won't be wasting a lot of time on the foundations and I can get straight to the juicy bits ...

[center]
iv tryed everything!!!!!!!!!! could u please just add The gun and shooting Code thats All!!!!!!!!!
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Fallout
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Posted: 1st May 2006 15:29
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I still find media the biggest pain the proverbials though. So I tackle that first. Coding is the easy part for me for most of my games and I can normally blast through it quickly enough to hold my interest and keep the game rolling. But media ... ... specifically 3d modelling. Zero enjoyment factor. It just has to be done.

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Area 51
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Posted: 2nd May 2006 03:00
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I keep makin demos and never finish the real game... sad...

Are we alone?
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Xander
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Posted: 2nd May 2006 10:18 Edited at: 2nd May 2006 10:18
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No one has done this yet, so I'm going to take a good estimate at my own projects incompleted vs. projects completed in DB/DBPro

Incomplete projects: 3
Ender's Game (anyone read the book)
Gadget Gear 3D (3D version of game I made in Metal Basic)
Spracer (space racing game)

Projects completed: 2
Gadget Pong (converted from Metal Basic, but a lot of work went into it)
Firewall (obviously my biggest completed project, took about 3 years, my first attempt at a 3D game actually)

Projects in progress: 1
Firewall 2 (my biggest project yet, it will take me a few years, but it's going to be amazing)

Xander Moser - Bolt Software - Firewall
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Van B
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Posted: 2nd May 2006 13:32
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I've got lots of projects, some big, some small, some insane.

I don't plan very much, I tend to develop by just developing, only putting pen to paper to work things out, sketch models minutes before starting them. But I'm currently on game 7 which is gonna be part of TYTT, so I'm sceptical about how bad a practice working like this is.

The first thing to remember is that when you basing everything on your own ideas, you'll run out of ideas quick. That's the thing, you get this initial rush, get a good idea going, level editor, and it starts to take shape, but then if your not sure what to do next with it, you tend to go onto something more interesting.

My advice would be to concentrate on an engine, a game engine that will not only speed up game development, but also give a solid foundation to expand on - you think of better ways to handle terrain, physics, and having a single system that needs fixed to take advantage is very much better than starting from scratch every time. The most notable difference in engines is often just as simple as polygon count - A FPS engine could provide a lot of functionality for an RTS game, the big difference would be that you need low polygon objects for the extended view range, same in reverse as well, with a neat engine with good collision, going FPS is really quite straightforward.

So if you end up starting a lot of projects and finishing none, maybe a change of tactic is needed - I find having a strong game project and an application project is a good balance, like a terrain and level editor and a game to test it with, something disposable, because games come and go, but a useful application is immortal.

Aegrescit medendo
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Drew Cameron
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Posted: 2nd May 2006 15:30
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VanB, I'm not trying to be offensive - but have you finished Lonewolf yet? Or have I missed it in the PA board since I've left?

The key to finishing anything is commitment! Start small, work your way up!

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Van B
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Posted: 2nd May 2006 16:04
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Quote: "but have you finished Lonewolf yet?"


Nah.

Really I'd like to get the new physics plug in, and make a new engine for it. I have this orgasmic AI system laid out that would benefit from a tweaked gameplay (more linear, less enemy swarming) - takes care of line of sight, pathfinding, cover, vantage points, heck if these guys needed a dump on the way the system could find the perfect nearby bush...

There's the u6 issue too, in 5.7 I have Lonewolf working, in u6 it goes daft with the advanced terrain but is immensly smooth, so I've come up with a unique terrain system that breaks the usual tile constraints using just a single byte per terrain indice, with that I can have overhanging cliffs and a far more organic terrain, layers, stuff like that. I'm sick of looking at repeated textures and kitchen-tile terrain, I want to tell it to not draw specific polygons and stick a cave there instead. These is ideas for an engine that would adopt to a few game genres, Lonewolf being an ideal fodder for testing things.

When I'll get round to finishing it I've no idea, like most of my projects it's really just a learning experience that has evolved from an initial gameplay idea. To be honest, Lonewolf as it stands will probably be released as a demo before very long, then it will be stripped down and most of it redone how I want. I want to show how it plays, then when it's properly done I want people in shock .

Aegrescit medendo
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