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FPSC Classic Work In Progress / Froggy Shoot Out Level Screens

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dennisb
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Posted: 3rd May 2006 09:29 Edited at: 21st May 2006 05:14
Hi

I am working on my level for froggy wild west shoot out.



Edit: Removed old images, scroll down

Dennis The Frogman
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Nigezu
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Posted: 3rd May 2006 10:02
Bad framerate. But screenies look good.

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dennisb
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Posted: 3rd May 2006 10:08
Thanks

What is a bad framerate? Does that mean the game will be slow? How do you know the framerate and what is a good framerate? This level takes up the whole grid but it is not very complex and I haven't populated it yet. In comparison too many commercial games it is not a very big level. Am I putting too much on one level? I am learning.

Dennis The Frogman
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Jiffy
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Posted: 3rd May 2006 10:19 Edited at: 3rd May 2006 10:20
Dennis - Nigezu is right (although I may be contradicting myself, slowdown on my level churns it down to 18FPS on occasion).

A Bad framerate is generally a framerate (the "F" in yellow at the bottom of the screen denotes the FPS (frames per second, in other words, framerate) that is below, in my personal opinion, 20FPS (with anywhere from 26-20 being mediocre. Of course, most of your pictures range from 24-20, apart from the one on 18, so you arn't doing horribly). You will begin to notice a "jaggerdy" movement at that point.

For FPSC, a good framerate is about 30-32FPS, but commercial games are usually more.

And size of the level is about just as important as the omplexity with entities and such. Taking up the whole grid is never a good idea, ever. I'd imagine a lot of it is dry desert? If you can cut it off a considerable amount more, you will most likely have a higher framerate. That said, it is just as important to keep physics objects and dynamic objects to only necessary items, and when you combine both techniques, you should get a higher framerate, even after you've populated your level.

Look good, though.


Evil has a new name.
dennisb
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Posted: 3rd May 2006 13:40 Edited at: 21st May 2006 05:12
Edit Scroll Down For Screens

Dennis The Frogman
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Psycho Warrior
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Posted: 3rd May 2006 18:49 Edited at: 3rd May 2006 18:51
Well, FPSC's engine draws even areas that you can't see currently. You'll need to add some kind of walls into the area. Doors will not help because they don't stop polyrendering. It may take some time to get the framerate back to shape, but it's worth it.
You could add the enemies to the map right away, but then your framerate would probadly drop to even lower, and in worst cases, below 10.

Nice screenshots though, I'm really looking forward to this game. It's refreshing to see someone do games with a diffrent theme instead of typical Horror/WW2/Sci-fi.

dennisb
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Posted: 5th May 2006 01:57 Edited at: 21st May 2006 05:13
Scroll Down

Dennis The Frogman
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Posted: 5th May 2006 02:18
bear in mind that windows will absolutely KILL the framerate, if there are active entities behind them, So for example, if you put "baddies" in the bank, the framerate will suck cheese when you're outside. Perhaps spawn all the interior enemies when the player opens the door?!

"Guns for show, knives for a pro."
dennisb
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Posted: 5th May 2006 18:13
Ok now I am confused. I put some enemies around my level and it slowed the framerate to like 4. The I removed the windows and cut the amount of enemies in half and got it up to like 16. I don't understand how I can make a game in this software. The enemies are all behind walls. Why is it slowing down the whole level? I just am not getting this at all. I am not making anything too complex here. There arent even other entites in the level yet besides these enemies.

Dennis The Frogman
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Benjamin A
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Posted: 5th May 2006 18:29 Edited at: 5th May 2006 18:30
If you use wide open spaces like you do, combined with huge rooms, you can put 3 at the most 4 enemies in your level, even if they're behind walls, they're still active.

FPSC wasn't created for outdoor scenes, so you need to find ways around this problem to do so.

The way around your problem is using spawned enemies. When a user steps into a zone, a enemy appears. That way you limit the number of enemies that are active at the same time. To learn how to spawn you need to check the scripting section, it's explained there.

Another solution is creating a combination of indoor/outdoor. I've done that with my games and it works great.

In one of my levels I did create a 40x40 outdoor scene with 6 not to large buildings on it. Inside the buildings were 2 enemies, outside I used spawned enemies. Works great and I was able to achieve a 25-33 framerate.

You got to learn to think smaller when using FPSC!

I like the screenshots though, looks great, but way to much for FPSC to handle.

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K Jah
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Posted: 5th May 2006 18:45
There's a spawning tutorial on my forum:
http://kwgamestudios.proboards62.com/index.cgi?board=tchnqs&action=display&thread=1145356761
That may help you. There's also a few other things but nothing major yet as there aren't many registered users.

Psycho Warrior
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Posted: 6th May 2006 18:42
Quote: "
Ok now I am confused. I put some enemies around my level and it slowed the framerate to like 4. The I removed the windows and cut the amount of enemies in half and got it up to like 16. I don't understand how I can make a game in this software. The enemies are all behind walls. Why is it slowing down the whole level? I just am not getting this at all. I am not making anything too complex here. There arent even other entites in the level yet besides these enemies."


Yeah, I've got angry because of that too. But it's the limitation of the software. You can't really have complex levels.
I just hope that V2 can handle complex levels better when it's released. And that they would remove that max 33 fps limit. (So that the user could have as good framerate as they want).

Doom
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Posted: 8th May 2006 02:16
as they said though in the EA release that FPSC's engine is ment for indoor levels not to much outdoor. which brings me back to remembering what i managed to do tonight. made a dungeon. and magically! i get 80fps. then my guy ran seriously fast, even though i left at default.

dennisb
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Posted: 8th May 2006 02:34
Thanks guys

The only problem with spawning is if the player skips some enemies befor going into a building then the framerates go through the roof again. I am thinking of a new idea. What if I have my outdoor level with nothing in the buildings and just a few enemies outside. Then I have a trigger zone in front of each building door and when you walk into it you go to the interior of that building, then I can make some wild indoor levels and keep my outdoor level. I am kind of stuck on the outdoor level because this is meant to be a wild west town you are in and I want that to be the entrance to the game.

So is this possible? Will it work? Will the maps take a long time to load between buildings?

Thanks.

Dennis The Frogman
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Tom0001
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Posted: 8th May 2006 02:48
You cannot have a winzone take you to more than one level after the current level unfortunately.

Tom

dennisb
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Posted: 8th May 2006 13:23
There is no documentation on winzones in the manual. At least in the demo manual I have so far. And I can't find it on the forum. How do you make the winzone take you to a new level anyway?

Or are you saying that you cant transport to a new map? I'm not sure what you mean. Sorry.

Dennis The Frogman
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Me Self
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Posted: 8th May 2006 13:52
its not hard just set the win zone on every level then when ur done building your levels go into files>build game and select the pages in order but i see your using the fpsc demo? ul need the full version to make the game

dennisb
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Posted: 8th May 2006 14:00
Ah ok. Thanks a lot. Guess I will have to wait. My software download instructions are lost in cyberspace somewhere. I contacted TGC. I am waiting for them to send it to me.

Dennis The Frogman
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Doom
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Posted: 9th May 2006 07:10
hmmm, isnt that the EA or demo version of FPSC your using?

Looking For WW2 Ambient sounds? http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=78596&b=24
dennisb
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Posted: 9th May 2006 14:18
Yeah Doom. I have been using the demo version. But I just got my download instructions in the e-mail today! yay! now I can really do some work.

Dennis The Frogman
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Wyatt Earp
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Posted: 9th May 2006 20:39
Looks good, but the bank is about 1000X too big.
dennisb
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Posted: 11th May 2006 15:05
Here is a small movie of how the level is coming along. The buildings are just facades. I will have the town square saved as different maps between interior levels where you can only enter one door each time. when you approach the door you will go to a new map. I need to decorate the town square more but my framerate is dropping. I think its because I used entities for 2 of the roofs. I will mess around with it.

Dennis The Frogman
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Benjamin A
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Posted: 11th May 2006 16:39
Cool! cery original with the frogs in it.... you really should have kept those a secret until the release of the game/demo.

Did you make the frogs yourself and if yes what tools/apps did you use?

If you use entities for roofs and such make sure you switch of physics and turn them into to static objects. That way they will not influence your framerate at all.

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
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dennisb
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Posted: 11th May 2006 17:35
I couldn't keep my frogs a secret. hehehe. I am too excited about them. I made them in a 3d app called animation master. check it out at www.hash.com I used Bullshock's milkshape skeleton for the fpsc animations. I put that together with a combo of milkshape and fragmotion tasks.

I forgot to turn off physics on my roofs, that should help. Thanks.

Dennis The Frogman
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Benjamin A
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Posted: 11th May 2006 17:57
I've used A:M in the past, A:M2003. At that time I couldn't get export models out of it correctly at all, so I sold and and bought gameSpace and later trueSpace instead. Looks like it has been improved a lot.

The frogs look great!

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dennisb
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Posted: 12th May 2006 17:19
Another screenie. A statue and a horse.

Dennis The Frogman
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dennisb
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Posted: 19th May 2006 15:29
I posted these in the level design contest thread but I am posting them here too for people not following that or who want to comment or critique.













Dennis The Frogman
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Nigezu
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Posted: 19th May 2006 16:52
Great work! Nice lightning!

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brummel
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Posted: 19th May 2006 17:18
Hey, this looks very good! Nice models, and the framerate isnt too bad!

Benjamin A
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Posted: 19th May 2006 17:39
Looks good, I like it

I see you were able to get good framerates also, good job!

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dennisb
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Posted: 19th May 2006 21:17 Edited at: 19th May 2006 22:15
Thanks guys, I had to replan my whole game from how I thought it would originally go due to the framerate thing, But I am finding a good balance and think it will turn out ok. Man, this is a lot of work. I spend too much time running tests though. I wish there was a quicker way.

I am hoping the author of this watertower and gallows lets me use them, they are really cool. I wrote him about it.



Dennis The Frogman
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The Game Creator
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Posted: 19th May 2006 22:33
Nice screenshots! I like those frogs!
ultraplex
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Posted: 19th May 2006 23:02 Edited at: 19th May 2006 23:03
Quote: " am hoping the author of this watertower and gallows lets me use them, they are really cool. I wrote him about it"
yeah no probs u can use my models mate no worries......

Never eat yellow snow
FredP
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Posted: 19th May 2006 23:16
Dennis,
Uman wrote a tutorial called "Loading and unloading entities on the fly".At least that is the name of it.The shots look beautiful.The frogs look even better.
Also,it might help your framerate if you turn the physics off an all static entities.Since they are basically rendered as part of the background you don't need physics on them.
I also erase the main and destroy scripts on static entities.Once again,you don't really need them.The default.fpi script is basically a script that tells the entity to do nothing.No main script will do the same.Since the entity is static it can't be destroyed so you don't need that script.
While the effect on the framerate can be debatable the effect on your loading time will be undeniable.The feweer scripts and the few physics you have in your level the quicker the level will load.

FLa
Where you can find my demo:http://www.savefile.com/files/6970524
dennisb
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Posted: 20th May 2006 00:47
I would really like to know how to find that tutorial. I would like it if maybe I start the level with two enemies showing, then when you kill one an other enemy appears. Then when you get through a certain amount of enemies a key appears and that key can open a door.

Is this possible? I hope so.

Thanks everyone. Thanks ultraplex for letting me use your models. I will not forget it.

Dennis The Frogman
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Me Self
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Posted: 21st May 2006 04:17
whats with the toy monsters? they look weird . Making it like cartoonish?
dennisb
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Posted: 21st May 2006 05:03
I guess they kind of look like toy monsters. They are supposed to be cartoon style frogs. They are supposed to be humorous but I guess I can see how someone thinks they look weird.

Well, anyway, attached is a small movie of the level. I didnt get as much as I wanted in it and the action is slow because fraps cut the framerate in half. But you can see the green blood and stuff. It is 3.5 mb

Dennis The Frogman
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FredP
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Posted: 21st May 2006 05:58
I like the frogs.The idea is original and innovative.

FLa
Where you can find my demo:http://www.savefile.com/files/6970524
Benjamin A
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Posted: 21st May 2006 16:48
Quote: "whats with the toy monsters? they look weird . Making it like cartoonish?"


Which monsters? All I do see is frogs and they look great and cartoonish, which is the whole idea I think. Frogs are my favourite animals, so I'm going to have a hard time shooting them

I totally agree with I has returned, this is a very original and innovative idea. I love the idea and the custom stuff being used. Very refreshing to see among all of the stock media being used and the zombie games.

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dennisb
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Posted: 22nd May 2006 13:45
Thanks a lot guys. I really appreciate the interest in my project. It helps me continue with it when the going gets tough. But now that I am figuring out how to use fpsc it is getting easier to do. I may even try some scripting if I start feeling bold. But I am more a graphics guy.

I have used some models by other people in this and some of my own. The frogs are the important thing about the game and I made those myself. I am very happy with how my lighting is coming. I have a hard time with lighting in 3d but it is so simple in fpsc and I get compliments on mine now from more advanced 3d lighting guys than me.

I just wish there was a regular looking rifle in the stock media that could pass for old west. I could model one but I don't understand how to make it work right in the game. Maybe I'll look at weapon creator. I will have to try to make it look as good as that great python gun.

Frogs are my favorite animals too Benjamin and people I know wonder why I would make a game shooting them. lol. I don't know why, I just find it funny. I would never hurt a real frog.I used to keep frogs as pets but I don't even do that anymore because frogs always seem to want to get free of captivity and it is sad. I appreciate your interest in my game. I really respect your work and I want to buy your game on a month where I don't have so many expenses.

Thanks folks

Dennis The Frogman
www.3dfrog.com
Benjamin A
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Posted: 22nd May 2006 21:51
I think this will be a funny game indeed, I don't mind shooting virtual frogs, the idea is just brilliant!

We don't keep frogs either, they just need to be in wild. But we almost every year get the eggs and keep them at home. The the whole family watches them grow into tadpoles and into little frogs. Once they've become little frogs we bring them back where they belong.

Looking forward seeing more of this game! (And thanks for the kind comments about my game )

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Rick M
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Posted: 23rd May 2006 05:49
after the game is done, could you realese the frog model, rigged and animated, possibly for a price?

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dennisb
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Posted: 23rd May 2006 16:20
I'll think about it Rick. Froggy games is kind of my thing so I don't know. If I release them they wouldn't be for commercial use.

Dennis The Frogman
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Rick M
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Posted: 24th May 2006 00:28
thats ok! I just would like to use them for fun.

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dennisb
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Posted: 24th May 2006 01:14
Ok Rick. I am happy you have interest in my frogs. I will let people who buy my game have the frogs for non commercial use. But after the game is released. Well I guess it would have to be after the game is released if you have to buy the game lol. The game wont be expensive, I just hope to get something back on all the time and money I invest.

Anyway, I updated my webpage with my movie and some new screenshots.

http://www.3dfrog.com/froggyshootout1.html

Thanks for looking.

Dennis The Frogman
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Me Self
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Posted: 24th May 2006 03:03
Can i ask one question , How can you tell if its bad frame rate i have no idea how to figure it out .

FredP
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When you test run your game you will see numbers at the bottom like the polygon count,framerate,etc.

FLa
Where you can find my demo:http://www.savefile.com/files/6970524
Rick M
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Posted: 24th May 2006 05:31
cool dennisb

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Spudling
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Posted: 28th May 2006 21:49
Very Creative love the Frogs i have to read the rest of this thread first befor i will edit but it looks great and as i said very creative with the frogs

Was Hi! but Hi! Was gettin a little iritating
dimoxinil
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Posted: 29th May 2006 12:57 Edited at: 29th May 2006 13:07
hi..
well. The first is to give you tempers so that you go on with the project, it is refreshing to see that somebody wants to do something different.

In my modest opinion, i believe that the fps have a great quantity of stock published at the present time, and they all seem to go in the same types of game, That does that he finds a lot of fps for kind. If what you want to do is games without intention of profit, perfect, but if you want to take out a title that will be over the same thing you go for finding that almost there is available market for the little developers unless you count on some overwhelming graphics which requires a lot of money, people and time. For that reason I believe than initiatives like yours they would be able to work, that if with very much further work. Attempting to reach the player tired to see always the same and to the casual player, Now we are talking, attempting to do little or middling games nothing that he surpass the 6 hours of game and of hushed cost. But this only is a personal opinion, in the one that I can be wrong in.

On your game, I believe that you should work whereon all go more homogeneous, defining a style to you and next being obeyed to him,
becose you run the risk that he seem made of remnants, attempts giving more life to the scenarios, for example an animation so that the horses drink out of the drinking trough. you keeps watch the fram rate and the number of polygons always, and utilizes correctly the system of portals. It goes for serving you bit a big area of game if after does it will go very slow. For that you trie to flee from of big spaces opened.

The main thing is not to lose the tempers and the self-confidence, and a lot of work.

Good luck.

sorry, my english is really horrible.

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