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Newcomers DBPro Corner / very frustrated

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Luis
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Posted: 23rd May 2006 20:46
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i am very frustrated i bought darkbasic pro like a year ago i think and well trying to understand but seems so difficult for me, i havent done any programing in my life (im 24 years old) well, i did on school long time ago (using qbasic) but i failed that class becasue i didint get it. seems that my logic part of my brain doesnt work, im not good at math or any thing related to numbers and the use of equations and whatsoever i really wanna learn darkbasicpro i may buy the book darkbasicpro vol. 1. Also in highschool in my computer class i had to learn diagrama de flujo(i dont know how to say it in english) where you need to write simbols and stuff like that in a logical order. So any advice,tips and motivation is welcome. Thanks
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Kenjar
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Posted: 23rd May 2006 21:45
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Search forum all and any tutorials, read them, check out the darkbasic news letter, look for tutorials, read them.

Like anything else it's about reading. But at the end of the day, all a program is, is a list of commands, just imagin you are using DOS or another command line system, and take the program one step at a time.

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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 23rd May 2006 22:31
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What exactly is it you need help with? Just ask questions here about whatever, I'm sure plenty of people will help . Keep working at it, its slow at the beginning, but once you get it, the possibilities are almost endless . I'd be happy to help you understand whatever you need on here, I just need more specifics as to what you already know and what you want to know .

Pirates of Port Royale
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th May 2006 00:14
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Best not to start with games probably, you could start with a slideshow of pictures, so that when you press the mouse key the picture changes, and the work your way up from there. Then maybe add music, then maybe add some fade effects, keep changing it until you have learned enough to start a game.

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D Ogre
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Posted: 24th May 2006 00:22 Edited at: 25th May 2006 22:43
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Don't worry about the math so much right now. Most of the math in programming will consist of simple arithmetic and basic algebra. The DMAS rule is a good rule to know for building equations in programs. DMAS means the order of operation which starts with Divide, Multiply, ADD, and then Subtract. Start small and then slowly build from there.

<EDIT>
Sorry, about the misinformation here. I made the correction to what I've said above. Thanks for pointing that out, Bahamut. Division does come before multiplication. I do this all the time without thinking of it. What was I thinking? I guess it was a minor case of dyslexia.
------

Later you might dive into trigonometry, but after a little practice, its not as hard as it seems either.

Take it slow and be methodical. Learn to pay attention to all the little details. You will eventually learn to use critical thinking. Even if you only have a little bit of time, try to do something related to programming each day even if it's only 20 minutes or so. Sometimes just writing things out on a piece of paper can help. After the end of each session, ask yourself what have I learned? Even if it's only one little thing, those things eventually add up to a much larger understanding. And don't be afraid to experiment.
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Luis
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Posted: 25th May 2006 02:16
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thanks to all of you for your responses, i'm thinking to buy darkbasic pro vol. 1 but there is another one that is called "Darkbasic for beginners" which one its better for me to buy?
thanks again
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Zeddex
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Posted: 25th May 2006 20:04
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DARK BASIC for beginner is for dark basic classic,

if you what an hint i learn my DBP with the tut on the site for DBC so you can do that,

diagrama de flujo is in englisg flux(I/O) diagrame, in french is " un diagrame d'entre sortie ( flux )

:p

but you know, you don t have to be good in math, you just have to want it and like it :p

If Zeddex can, you can. If you have an idea, make it.
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Bahamut
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Posted: 25th May 2006 20:16
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Quote: "MDAS means the order of operation which starts with Multiply, Divide, ADD, and then Subtract. "


That's a great rule, except that Divide comes before multiply. I was taught BODMAS (Brackets, order(?), divide, multiply, add, subtract).

I highly recommend TDKs tutorials. They're for DBC, but the principles are pretty much the same, and everything is brilliantly explained. The links in his sig if you can find one of his posts. He mostly posts in Dark Basic Chat and Newcomers, I think.

The hardest maths you'll ever have to use really is trig or vectors. They're not as hard as they first seem. Most maths will be done internally, so you won't actually have to do it, just know what it does.

Writing in DB is about as close to english as a programming language can get, but it still takes time to make something really good.

Good luck with learning it.

IceBound
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 26th May 2006 03:27
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maybe you're barking up the wrong tree? not everyone is cut out for programming. maybe you have other skills you don't know about yet like: music, audio effects, level design, 3d modelling, etc etc. There's countless skillsets required for todays games - coding is just one of them.

just a thought

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Dream And Death
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Posted: 26th May 2006 09:44
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BODMAS

Brackets: Anything in brackets gets done first
Order: Order is another term for power, i.e. x^2 (x-squared) or x^3 (x-cubed)
Division: Hopefully you know these last 4
Multiplication: Cause they are 95% of the maths you need
Addition: and the forum can help
Subtraction: with the last 5%

Good luck to you! Although you may want to consider CattleRustler's words. There are many team projects going on that want modellers, artists and musicians. Bear in mind that if you do start programming, you'll want to develop basic skills in these areas as well!
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QuothTheRaven
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Posted: 26th May 2006 10:48
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What the heck? Multiplication comes before division! And your acronym is all...lame.

PEMDAS (Please Excuse My Dear Aunt Sally)
Parenthesis, exponents, multiplication, division, addition, subtraction

And certainly none of this is going to help with programming. Most game programmers in fact, don't need to know a lot of math. Especially us DBers.

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Tinkergirl
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Posted: 26th May 2006 12:11
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I'm familiar with BODMAS (it's what I got taught) but multiplication and division can be either way around, from what I've just tried (I could be wrong).

For example (and with easy numbers):

4*2*2*2/8 =
BODMAS = 32/8
PEMDAS = 0.25 * 16
= 4
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Dream And Death
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Posted: 26th May 2006 15:18 Edited at: 26th May 2006 15:19
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BODMAS - UK
PEMDAS - US

Go figure! (or Wikipedia it if you are that interested)

Our random thread hijacking aside, Luis, flow-charting (diagrama de flujo) is a very good way of working out what your program needs to do.

The most important part of programming IMHO that you need to get your head around is: Small chunks!

By this, I mean work out little things that your program needs to do (flowchart comes in here) and then write a piece of code that can do that. Keep doing this, and finally you will be able to put all of the little pieces together to make your game/application/whatever.

Logical thought helps, but patience and inspiration are very important as well (especially when debugging!)

I say again - good luck!
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Bahamut
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Posted: 26th May 2006 16:46
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Quote: "For example (and with easy numbers):

4*2*2*2/8 =
BODMAS = 32/8
PEMDAS = 0.25 * 16
= 4"


That's true for that, but take the following example.

3x5/3x5

Following BODMAS, the answer is 25

Following The other retarded one, the answer is 1

Plugging it into my scientific calculator without brackets? I get 25.

I rest my case.

[on topic]

If you're in doubt, though, just put brackets around everything you want done first-that's what I do, even if I know they're not needed.
Also, when you have to do maths manually, always use a calculator for everything, even 1+1. Just in case.

You only need to do the working out yourself when checking whether the programs running properly. Trig, for instance should be checked on a calculator to make sure your programming is correct.

IceBound
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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 26th May 2006 20:47
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I was taught PEMDAS in which multiplication and division are the same priority (you do whichever comes first), and same with addition and subtraction.

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Luis
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Posted: 26th May 2006 21:13
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as cattlerustler said maybe i wasnt born to have the skills of coding, but i think my main problem is like i want to have everything done quickly, maybe it may take me much more time to do something that usually somebody with those skills can do it in less time, but i think if i can learn english i can learn coding, i guess.
I've been looking those TDK's tutorials for darbasic classic and i kinda understand, altough when im trying to do it by myself i get kind of stuck becasue im not familiar with the commands and stuff like that. Maybe i havent try harder anyway thanks for your reply to all of you, i must start little to then make vigger things and not backwards
thanks
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RUCCUS
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Posted: 28th May 2006 02:20
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I was taught BEDMAS (Brackets, Exponents, Division, Multiplication, Addition, Subtraction).

Atleast BEDMAS sounds like a word

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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 28th May 2006 02:30
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Quote: "as cattlerustler said maybe i wasnt born to have the skills of coding, but i think my main problem is like i want to have everything done quickly, maybe it may take me much more time to do something that usually somebody with those skills can do it in less time, but i think if i can learn english i can learn coding, i guess.
I've been looking those TDK's tutorials for darbasic classic and i kinda understand, altough when im trying to do it by myself i get kind of stuck becasue im not familiar with the commands and stuff like that. Maybe i havent try harder anyway thanks for your reply to all of you, i must start little to then make vigger things and not backwards
thanks "

just keep working at it, you'll catch on soon enough , and ask questions when you get stuck. It takes patience to program though .

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