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Geek Culture / Text adventure contest anyone?

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 24th May 2006 10:27
I was just thinking about maybe slapping out a text adventure for the sheer heck of it. They're fun... silly and mind-bogglingly simple to make, but fun nonetheless. I'm thinking about maybe having a "modern text adventure" contest here on TGC, but I don't have any cool prizes to give away and I don't really know what constitutes a true text adventure anymore. I guess the rules for making a "modern" text adventure would be something like:

* You can't use animated media. Only 2D images you've made yourself using MS Paint are eligible

* You can't use music or sound effects unless you made them yourself

* The file-size must be 5 MB in size or less

But I've never thrown a contest before, not since I worked at a radio station here. Do I *need* to offer prizes, or will no one enter otherwise? And if so, how do I procure them? And who would help me judge the entries? How many judges should I have? And would anyone enter it, because it's a text adventure contest, or would EVERYONE enter it for that same reason? Last but not least, how long should I give the contestants to enter?

I know I want to base the scoring on originality, story design, technical writing ability (it's when it should be it's instead of its), and writing form (general coolness factor and absorption into the story). Maybe we'd release the top five in some compilation or something, I dunno... what do you think? Am I mad, or would this be a fun contest?


"In an interstellar burst, I'm back to save the universe"
Van B
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Posted: 24th May 2006 10:34
Maybe, just maybe you could convince Rich to offer a prize.

Like DARK Voices for instance, something involving text. That would be cool, like a mini competition where graphics are not an issue. Once you know how they work, writing a text adventure is fairly straightforward and fun, 'tis how I cut my teeth, making mad little text adventures on the C64 and Speccy.

If it goes ahead, I doubt I'll be able to resist entering.

Aegrescit medendo
Matt Rock
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Posted: 24th May 2006 10:40
It's how I got my start, too, on the IBM PCjr making little text adventures that could fit on 5.25" disks. Ahh, the good ole' days. I don't want to bother Rich yet, he just had a kid recently, but perhaps in a few days or so when I see him bopping around on the forums I'll drop him a line and see if he'd be interested. I was thinking Dark Voices or maybe a copy of Playbasic if they'd go that far. But I still need to figure out all of the should-do and shouldn't-do stuff regarding the contest itself... and there's no way I'm going to judge it by myself, hehe.


"In an interstellar burst, I'm back to save the universe"
Saikoro
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Posted: 24th May 2006 11:22
I would most definitely enter if you made a contest as such. In fact, I might do one for old times sake anyway. Hows this for a storyline?:

It'll feature the death of Radiohead and the replacement of New York pizza for Taco Bell mexican pizzas. Chavs will run the UK and migrate to Canada, and the mass amount of gas used to transport them will raise gas prices to $6.68 a gallon. Microsoft and Macintosh will stop making OS's, and the US Government will make one, with Linux still at the last limb of everything. Programming jobs will ALL be outsourced to the Atlantic Ocean, where corporate heads decided that fish will do a more efficient job for less pay. Zenicanin will run for president of the world using his "Sorry world, But I thought you had a good system. When I saw that I was shocked. I thought my sister's boyfriend made the system. I thought someone had made it by running into a car. IS that a system, a community, or a 3 year old dead goldfish? I REALLY THINK IT IS A TOOTHPICK" campaign speech, and win with flying colors. The FPSC boards will become priority of the forum.thegamecreators.com forums, and the only hope for anyone is to form an underwater sea colony for all the sane. Your job in this game will be to undo all the wrongs in the world.

I think it'll work.

"One World, One Web, One Program" -Microsoft ad.
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Führer"(One People, One Kingdom, One Leader)-Adolf Hitler.
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th May 2006 12:30
Too hard to judge a text adventure. Look how many rooms you have to enter for each game. Say 50 locations per game, taking around 20 minutes if you are given all of the puzzles solved. Then having to read all of the text to judge it fairly. Seems hard to judge to me. There would probably be 30+ entries.

Van B
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Posted: 24th May 2006 12:38
Perhaps getting a text adventure community involved would be an idea.

Like let them judge it, we just make the themed game, and they test it and score it, then work out the highest score based on that.

This community is fairly big:
http://forums.adventuregamers.com/

Aegrescit medendo
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th May 2006 12:50
It would be good to make one after all this time. I'd prefer to have some bmp's as well, just stationary ones.

Sergey K
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Posted: 24th May 2006 14:02
i remember i made one.. didnt got much players on it though but it were fun
the game size were around err.. 4MB
the game called OTG game if someone remember...
here is a shot:


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Van B
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Posted: 24th May 2006 14:34
Not a text adventure .

That's more like a text RPG. A text adventure is basically reading location and item descriptions then using a text input to play the game, type E or East to go east, type GET LAMP to pickup the lamp. You have to kinda cast your mind back 2 decades, they will surely be the first IT antiques.

You should look up the Infocom and Magnetic Scrolls adventure games, although my all time personal favourite would have to be The Hobbit, actually having characters in a text adventure that can be independent is damn cool, that's why The Hobbit rules all TA's in my book.

Aegrescit medendo
spooky
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Posted: 24th May 2006 14:57
Hobbit was one of my faves aswell. Play it in a java applet here;

http://www.spectrum.lovely.net/Hobbit.html

Magnetic scrolls games were also great. I loved the Pawn, Guild of thieves, and Wonderland.

Writing a text adventure in DBPro would be quite a challenge, specially with the lack of string commands you find in other languages, but with a few custom functions that problem should be solved.

Boo!
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th May 2006 15:32
Lack of string commands? You have all the ones that the spectrum had, and the C64 I think.

So we are allowed some graphics then judging by The Hobbit?

Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 24th May 2006 16:12
I grew up on Zork, Enchanter, and The Hobbit. I did so many prototype text adventures before I really knew how to program.

I loved the Hobbit's sound and graphics, although the text parser was lacking compared to the Infocom games.

@Sergey K - Think of it like a book in which you're the main character. You type in commands, like "Go north", "Kill the troll", etc.




Come see the WIP!
Saikoro
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Posted: 24th May 2006 16:18
There was an online text adventure RPG quite a few years back called Shilla.org, it allowed the keeping of stats whilst doing things which you described. How that wasnt a text adventure is beyond me, unless we're getting technical with the genres..

"One World, One Web, One Program" -Microsoft ad.
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Führer"(One People, One Kingdom, One Leader)-Adolf Hitler.
Van B
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Posted: 24th May 2006 16:48
That would be a MUD, a multi user dungeon, basically a multiplayer text adventure with RPG elements.

If it stores stats like Strength and Stamina, then it's an RPG.

If it's mostly text with no stats then it's a text adventure.

Not being picky, we should be adamant that a text adventure is an adventure told and played via text, rather than commands and stats. They were designed to be played by non-gamers.

Aegrescit medendo
Fallout
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Posted: 24th May 2006 17:52
Not sure if TGC would provide prizes for a text adventure compo. They wouldn't show of DB at all really, so what would they gain from it?

Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 24th May 2006 18:03
There was an Infocom game, Zork Zero I believe, that was a mix between a text adventure and an RPG. I loved it. It was a text adventure in every way, plus stats, combat, money, and an automap. Now I'm going to add 3D to that idea...




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Represent
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Posted: 24th May 2006 18:25
What game engines can we use? Can I use the RPGToolKit? Lol Its an RPG Engine but can be modded severly into anything but its 2D/Iso based so its a little hard to mod into a text only adventure but can I? Site is http://www.toolkitzone.com/

Van B
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Posted: 24th May 2006 18:29
Well the thing with DB compos is that often, very often in fact, people include the source code.

If we did rely on the text adventure forums to test and grade our games, then they'd find an awesome language to make text adventures in. There is still demand to this day for text adventure creation stuff.

Aegrescit medendo
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 24th May 2006 18:34
There are so many well developed text adventure creation systems, TADS, Inform, etc. I've played with some, they're quite nice for their purpose. Whenever those kind of places host a contest, their entries are always made with that kind of Interactive Fiction tool. I think IF in DBP would be cool, but everyone starting from scratch, we'd see some comparatively immature products.


Come see the WIP!
Jeku
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Posted: 24th May 2006 18:47
I don't understand how a text-adventure could be mind-boggingly simple to make?

Sure, I made a few when I was learning to code, but they checked for exact strings i.e. "GET LAMP", etc. But you'd be foolish to code it that way now. You'd want to parse for verbs and nouns. Some text adventures had capabilities like chaining commands i.e. GET LAMP AND GO NORTH".

Crazy. I would probably be interested in this compo after all

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th May 2006 19:01
Quote: "Sure, I made a few when I was learning to code, but they checked for exact strings i.e. "GET LAMP""


My first text adventure was like that, but my second was more sophisticated. So 15 Years ago this was quite easy.

Van B
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Posted: 24th May 2006 20:08
Yeah, you'd have the input converted into values, like GET and TAKE would be the same value - then if you used a location number for items, checking that to see what items are there, you end up parsing things down til you can process the input depending on how the player types. AND could be a seperator, like process GET LAMP, then AND GO NORTH. Once you have the basic command set in an array, adding alternate commands would make for a decent interface.

Checking items at the current location, and using the location -1 for the inventory would make it really straightforward. Drop an item and you set the location to the current 'room', then collect an item and it would set the location to -1, easy to handle and easy to check if theres an item in your inventory.

Aegrescit medendo
Sergey K
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Posted: 24th May 2006 20:08
well in that game in top, u typing numbers to go to places (iventory, fight, etc.) is that counts?

MyNewSite:http://gogetax.com
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Matt Rock
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Posted: 24th May 2006 21:42 Edited at: 24th May 2006 21:59
I think the general rules would include that you can't use animation, but you could use static images. For example, there's no reason why you couldn't use some sort of placemat to keep the text. Also, I think it'd be okay if you just used a simple input method, like say using inkey or scancode or a button command. press 1 to go north, 2 for east, 3 for south, 4 for west, or something like that. But using a simplified method like that might not win you the competition because, as people have mentioned, more complex input systems would be more impressive and would definitely score better. I also think you should be allowed to use ink and cls-rgb commands to help make your adventure prettier, although I wonder if some people might argue that. But I'm pretty adamant about having a maximum file size requirement between 3 and 5 mb.

What about a time limit? I'm trying to gauge how long this would potentially take someone and that's hard to figure out. If it were, say, 3+ months, would that be too long or not long enough?

Another thing. I think that because this is pretty much a TGC competition, the rules should state that the game be made the hard way, by coding it, rather than using a text adventure maker or some other fabricating software. Or in the very least, coding should be strongly encouraged. I think you have a lot more freedom coding than you do with one of those pre-fab programs (and I doubt many would argue there). As far as what languages it can be coded in, that's completely up in the air... I think that while it will most undoubtedly limit the total number of registrations, we should stick to TGC languages because we are, after all, TGC shareholders on Alexadex

Another thing: To avoid confusion, we should firmly define the difference between a text adventure (where you read a large block of text and then choose an action or type one in) and those Sierra games Like King's Quest and Space Quest (where you typed in your actions, but played via 2D semi-isometric).

In terms of story, no licensed stuff (you can't make "Matrix the text adventure" or Star Wars or something like that), and you can't USE licensed stuff (images, music, whatever). But you should be allowed to use royalty-free or self-made music.

Lastly, and I think this is pretty obvious, but I think only pre-compiled entries will be accepted. No sending source code expecting the judges to compile it for you. I suppose that's fairly obvious but I wanted to say it anyway

If we can find 3 to 5 judges I think we could do it fine. Maybe we could try to find two prizes, one given away by official judges, and the other given away by community voting. I dunno, this is all in the earliest stages of my thought process... I didn't expect this thread to grow this big overnight, either I don't think this competition will be happening this month, either... it'll probably begin on June 1st or something. Anyway, let me know what you think of all that

Edit: Saikoro, don't test me lol I should make a game like that just to be funny, a Radiohead NY liberal game, hehehehehe


"In an interstellar burst, I'm back to save the universe"
Chris Franklin
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Posted: 24th May 2006 22:18
Awesome i might join after i finsih my other games

Perokreco
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Posted: 24th May 2006 22:38
I mihgt join after i finish my school. I made some earlier with a text advetnure maker called quest. You also need to handle prefixex and suffixex in the game.
spooky
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Posted: 24th May 2006 22:49
I would be interested but I'm doing the Caiman compo at the minute which still has a few months left to run, and also the Retro Remakes compo starts on 1st June which I also plan on entering. So no more compos for me until nearer the end of the year.

Boo!
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 25th May 2006 15:02 Edited at: 25th May 2006 15:04
I think it should be DB Classic or DB Pro, and nothing else...

But I don't think I have time to do one anyway with my Greyhound game being made at the same time.

Crazy Ninja
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Posted: 25th May 2006 15:12
Hmm since i'm not that experienced a programmer this actually might be in my league. I would probably join if you guys started it up.

The nintendo Wii. Okay...
Bahamut
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Posted: 25th May 2006 15:24
Quote: "It'll feature the death of Radiohead and the replacement of New York pizza for Taco Bell mexican pizzas. Chavs will run the UK and migrate to Canada, and the mass amount of gas used to transport them will raise gas prices to $6.68 a gallon. Microsoft and Macintosh will stop making OS's, and the US Government will make one, with Linux still at the last limb of everything. Programming jobs will ALL be outsourced to the Atlantic Ocean, where corporate heads decided that fish will do a more efficient job for less pay. Zenicanin will run for president of the world using his "Sorry world, But I thought you had a good system. When I saw that I was shocked. I thought my sister's boyfriend made the system. I thought someone had made it by running into a car. IS that a system, a community, or a 3 year old dead goldfish? I REALLY THINK IT IS A TOOTHPICK" campaign speech, and win with flying colors. The FPSC boards will become priority of the forum.thegamecreators.com forums, and the only hope for anyone is to form an underwater sea colony for all the sane. Your job in this game will be to undo all the wrongs in the world."


Best.Game.Ever.

I'd enter if I could think of a story. I think it's a great idea-it's realistic, and doesn't involve 90% of your time making media. Dunno if I'll have time though. My A-levels are next month.

Van B
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Posted: 25th May 2006 15:37
I had a mess around yesterday on my old lappy with DBC. It is very straightforward, I mean I've got 2 rooms and an item, but actually loading this stuff from a script rather than hard coding. I can already add and link rooms, add items, list items in a room, show the inventory, collect items, and display whatever text in a sensible fashion (left justified paragraphs and no chopped words).

It's really a hurdle on a hill situation, get over the initial script handling code, and it's all fun fun fun (hahahahahaha yeah right) - well it becomes more about building a world with text than coding it .

Aegrescit medendo
David iz cool
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Posted: 25th May 2006 18:44
if u start this contest,id like to join.
Computer Nerd
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Posted: 25th May 2006 20:38
Count me in, I know I haven't posted here much but I want in on this.

Current Project - Jono's Maze(Open Source, 3d maze shooter)
Progress Of Project - 0.5%
Matt Rock
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Posted: 25th May 2006 21:17
If I start this contest, it's not going to be until June 1st or so. I just need to figure out how long it's going to run for, contact Rich about a prize, and create an official list of rules and whatnot.

Question for the Mods: Would I get in trouble for making a new thread about this contest in the DBP and/ or DBC forum(s)? This was mostly a "testing the waters" thread to see if anyone would actually be interested in it, and now that I know people are, I'd rather make a serious contest thread... but where can I and should I do it?

I think this contest is going to be awesome. I love reading and I already know that a lot of people here on TGC are great writers. I can't wait to get this contest rolling

I think I might do something crazy (there's a surprise) and contact some outside companies to offer prizes. I'm pretty sure I'll get laughed out of the room, but I might do the craziest thing I can think of... like contact E-Bay in the hopes that maybe they'll give some kind of gift certificate or something I'm pretty sure they'll say NO!!!!! even if they respond at all, but you'll never know until you try, hehe.


"In an interstellar burst, I'm back to save the universe"
Halo Man
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Posted: 26th May 2006 00:52
i would definetly join this

Currently Learning C++ and DirectX
Van B
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Posted: 26th May 2006 14:45
I would suggest Game Design Theory.

For one thing, it simply wouldn't need a sticky, and a lot of the people who I'd expect to be interested would go there.

Maybe ask entrants to pimp the compo thread to get interest, like have a link to it in their sig's. Thing is, it's not the sort of thing that most people will be interested in, no disrespect but most of the people here are just too young to remember these games .

A relaxed but challenging compo like this would be a welcome distraction TBH, hope it goes ahead.

Aegrescit medendo
Darth Vader
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Posted: 26th May 2006 16:29
You can count on me to enter! My first game was a Text adventure, it featured one hand made image and some Evermore music in the background. You can findi it in the 20 liners its called the 'Will'.

Quote: "I would be interested but I'm doing the Caiman compo at the minute which still has a few months left to run, and also the Retro Remakes compo starts on 1st June which I also plan on entering. So no more compos for me until nearer the end of the year."

Were do you go to find all these compos?


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Bahamut
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Posted: 26th May 2006 16:50
Quote: "I would suggest Game Design Theory."


The only problem with that is that it's the least active part of the forum (which is unfortunate, because it's also my favourite). Not everyone will look there, so not see the contest.

Van B
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Posted: 26th May 2006 17:00
Quote: "The only problem with that is that it's the least active part of the forum"


That's the main benefit!

Think about the folk that post there, that's exactly the folk that would like a competition like this, who probably wouldn't even care about prizes, just like to make a retro style text adventure and compare it with everyone elses.

I'm thinking that Game Design is the place for discussing the details, because most people will just mock a text adventure posted anywhere else. Text adventures are only gonna be of interest to a handful of people here until they end up in proggie announcements.

Notices etc could be posted anywhere, but a more detailed post like this one that would stay on topic could only exist for a decent length of time in Game Design.

Aegrescit medendo
Computer Nerd
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Posted: 26th May 2006 18:59
So is this still on?

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 26th May 2006 21:26
Well, it's not really -on- yet, not until I work out the details, but it will be shortly

I see Van's point. But I wish we could reach more people than the Design boards reach. There's a lot of newer, less-experienced designers who aren't as familiar with coding and might benefit tremendously from this contest, and in my opinion those are the people who need this competition the most.

As soon as I have a set list of rules and stuff, I'm going to post them. Should I have an age requirement or any of that? I guess I'll just talk to Rich about it but public opinion is, to me, just as important


"In an interstellar burst, I'm back to save the universe"
Dot Merix
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Posted: 27th May 2006 03:46 Edited at: 27th May 2006 03:46
... I worked on one for a really long time.. I even posted about it awhile ago, you can find the link to it here..

http://www.rpmud.com

Dazzag
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Posted: 27th May 2006 19:09
I didn't totally read all messages here, but why not just enter the annual IF (interactive fiction - it's what they call text adventures these days apparently) contest? Some pretty good stuff there last time I looked (couple of years ago now admittingly). I was building a complete conversion of the Lone Wolf game books (remember them??) for the PDA at the time before work became hell and I became lazy Loads of fun.

http://www.ifcomp.org/

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Matt Rock
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Posted: 27th May 2006 22:25
Because I'd rather a hold a TGC-specific competition. While text adventures might not be as technically difficult to develop as 2D or 3D games, I think they can help developing programmers fine-tune the more basic aspects of coding, and maybe more importantly, help them advance their storytelling abilities, a skill that any game designer will need to hone for obvious reasons And besides that, I really want to hold a contest


"In an interstellar burst, I'm back to save the universe"
Dazzag
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Posted: 27th May 2006 22:47
Fair enough. Although I don't know about the technically difficult comment. Think it would be far easier to code a simple 2D space invader type clone than a seriously good non-graphical text adventure with a decent parser. I remember marveling at the first Gnome Ranger game (dig it out of an emulator site - totally ace) with it's brilliant parser and the way the game adapted around you as you played.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Matt Rock
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Posted: 28th May 2006 01:59
I've talked to Rich about prizes and he said I can offer either Dark Voices or Dark AI. Let me know which you guys would prefer, and tomorrow I'll count up each person's vote (one vote per, hehe) and when I get home from work I'll e-mail him back and let him know which we'll use. I'm also going to contact the Playbasic developer and see if he'd be willing to offer a prize, too, and maybe a few other sources as well. This is going to be so much fun I can't wait to see the games that people come up with


"In an interstellar burst, I'm back to save the universe"
Jeku
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Posted: 28th May 2006 02:09
Well I'd rather Dark AI--- if that were up for grabs then I would *definitely* enter this

Perokreco
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Posted: 28th May 2006 02:27
Dark AI
Bahamut
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Posted: 28th May 2006 02:37
Dark AI. I don't think I'll ever find a use for Dark Voices. If I enter, though, it won't really be for the prize.

David iz cool
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Posted: 28th May 2006 03:41
kool!!! cant wait to enter! i want to win! since im kindof poor. lol :p

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