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FPSC Classic Work In Progress / [LOCKED] Slaughter in Haditha

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SpyDaniel
15
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Joined: 4th Feb 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 29th May 2006 15:56
Quote: "Killing full grown adult males is ok? When do you people stop caring about iraqi males? adolescence?"


Soldiers do not kill males, just as they dont kill children and women. But if they hold a threat towards them, then they will have to do some thing; wouldnt they.

Your one sick bastard lilgamz and I bet your sitting there laughing to all our posts.



Avenging Eagle
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Joined: 2nd Oct 2005
Location: UK
Posted: 29th May 2006 15:59
Quote: "Is the idea sick? You bet. But I didnt invent it. The story of Haditha is true."

Yes but why are you making something horrifying into entertainment?

Quote: "Killing full grown adult males is ok? When do you people stop caring about iraqi males? adolescence?"

1) Most Women and Child aren't plan of the insurgency (sp?), most of it is made up of men.
2) I do care about Iraqi males, we shouldn't have gone to war in the first place but, as always, the US had to drag us Brits in...

Quote: "I think it is interesting that the ones that are opposed to the video game support the actual war."

But this isn't how "actual war" is supposed to be. Actual war is when two armies attack each other and there ends up with one winner while the other side retreats or is slaughtered. You're talking about actual war as if we're still in Vietnam, killing the innocent to get back at the enemy. Perhaps this view is distorted but, as a Brit, i've been taught to fight fair (as the Americans should have as well) and thats what war is to me. Even in gorilla warfare, its still proper war because there is two sides, eah with guns and motives. This game showcases two sides, one is innocent, the other is holding the guns.

AE

lilgamz
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Posted: 29th May 2006 16:59 Edited at: 29th May 2006 17:04
"But this isn't how "actual war" is supposed to be....*blah blah..."

War hasnt been like you just said since the Brits got booted from her 13 colonies.

Lining big masses of men in this day and age is immensly stupid and wastefull. The weapons are simply too powerfull.

Warfare has changed but probably not for the better.

But war is what it always was. Mass murder.

The strongest weapons of war are food and medicine. During the 15 year embargo, between the "first gulf war" and "the second" the UN estimated that nearly a million iraqis died of preventable diseases. Mostly children.

Focus on the keywords now: Nearly a million, preventable deaths.

Who would be sick enough to play that game? Who would support such an atrocity?

Nobody knows how many iraqis have died in this "second" war. Nobody is counting.

Our if you would like to add a dash of realism to the "game". Then educate yourselves on American Warfare and go to www.google.com and images and give keywords like "iraqi" and "baby".

What do you find?
KeithC
Senior Moderator
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Joined: 27th Oct 2005
Location: Michigan
Posted: 29th May 2006 17:06
War is ugly, War is unfair, and War is a horrible finality of two or more sides coming to an impassible disagreement. There is no such thing as a "Fair fight", unfortunately. The execution of the fight is what decides who is honorable, and who is not. Our convoy was once hit by an IED (a few trucks behind mine), fortunately it was so weak it barely dented the door on the truck it hit. As I said, going into Iraq was a mistake; we should have concentrated our forces in Afghanistan (an operation which Germany has and is participating in) and finished the job there, where the real culprits are.

I cannot condemn the ones who create IED's, raids or ambushes; that is all they have at their disposal, they do not possess technologically advanced, precision guided methods of killing. They no longer possess a viable conventional force either; initially we were supposed to leave the regular Iraqi Army alone, and go straight for the Republican Guard. Instead the Regular Iraq Army was disbanded; that was a HUGE mistake, as they were supposed to take over control of Iraq's security much quicker than they are today. Now we were left with a large group of unemployed former soldiers, who's anger continued to grow daily (how would you feel if America was being occupied?).

Lilgamz cannot possibly fathom the frustration shown by both sides, as he/she is safe within stable borders; able to speak his/her mind because we allow it. What have you done to deserve your freedoms? Is it because you were born here? Unfortunately, today, that is enough. Son instead of venting his/her frustration constructively, he/she makes this "Game". I agree, ButterFingers; whether this game is about Iraq or not is irrelevant; you made a game with the sole purpose of killing innocent women and children. That is a disgrace to humanity at large.

As far as killing Males, Females and Children; if they are pointing a weapon at you, they are combatants...period. I've seen early teenagers (couldn't be much older than 13 or 14) wielding AK-47's with precision. Do you think Iraqi males are the only ones capable of anger towards the United States? At least Iraqis can tell the difference between the Ameerican People, and the American Government; if you start talking to them about America, they'll talk about Baseball and Coca-Cola, if you talk about our Government they'll all start spitting on the ground and cursing. I wish we could make the same distinction over here.

Quote: "BTW. Nice anti-patriot stance keith - legend.
"

I'm not quite sure what you're saying; are you calling me unpatriotic?

I, along with about 20 other soldiers in my unit, was involuntarily extended there; which means I hadn't "volunteered" to remain there. But I did my job the same as if I had volunteered, I had soldiers to take care of; and my brother was out there with me (sometimes in the same truck). My best friend (and my best man) was out there with his sister and his father, all in the same area. All you have is each other, and the occassional scraps of mail that came every month or so (if you were lucky). When we were there there wasn't any functional internet, or a functional mail service (we didn't start getting letterrs until 2 months in).

I used to interact with the local Iraqis as much as possible. I ate at their restaraunts (and paid too much for their food...gladly), talked with the kids, and gave out any and all food that I had when on convoy. I admire the resourcefullness of the Iraqi people as a whole.

A large portion of the anger I see there today (which is all the news will show us) is because we are still there, and I cannot blame them for feeling that way...nobody likes to be invaded. I also will not excuse (if they are found guilty by a court and not by the media's portrayal of events) the actions of a few servicemembers; but I will not excuse the abuse for all men and women in uniform that I have seen here.

I don't see you making a video game about the horrors that continue in Africa; or about the slaughter of Iraqis by Saddam's Guards after being ambushed (check the last thing he was on trial for)....why is that?

Why don't you make a game about the slaughter at Habjala? That's where Saddam used Nerve agents to kill off an entire village; a village comprised of a Kurdish population. Yes, we gave him the know-how of creating such agents; but we didn't give him the will to use it. He destroyed hundreds of other villages like Habjala, but with conventional means. For a long time before those events, the Kurds were doing quite well as farmers on their own, including exporting of their produce to other countries (at a profit). In an attempt to make the Kurds reliant on the Central Iraqi Government, Saddam ordered them to accept the Central Government's subsidies. When they refused, he began to "cleanse" the Northern Part of Iraq.

After doing this, he mined the farmer's fields, so that should they return ...they would suffer. Northern and Eastern Iraq are heavily mined (The North for the Kurds, and the East for Iran), some of these mines are made with wood and as such are undetectable.

But, Lilgamez, you can go on believing what you want; just know that your ability to have opinions are paid for everyday, by real men and women.

-Keith


lilgamz
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Posted: 29th May 2006 17:40 Edited at: 29th May 2006 17:42
I dont see how the iraqis were doing anything to prevent free speech.

The US military on the other hand does quite a bit of "prevention of free speech".

I certainly didnt see how they were going to threaten me with an Al Samud 2 rocket. (range 150 miles)

Especially after Saddam Hussein agreed to destroy them all.

It didnt seem to me that he was planning an assault on the US.



And finally, I never said the object was to kill people I said your orders are to kill.

The object was to frag your commanding officer.

But now youve ruined it and I ll have to make another game.
SpyDaniel
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Joined: 4th Feb 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 29th May 2006 17:45
Policital Debates are not allowed, so I guess your sick game thread will be locked when the Mods read it.



KeithC
Senior Moderator
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Joined: 27th Oct 2005
Location: Michigan
Posted: 29th May 2006 17:51
You're not going to make killing women and children an objective in your DisneyLand game are you?


xplosys
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Joined: 5th Jan 2006
Playing: FPSC Multiplayer Games
Posted: 29th May 2006 18:16
@KeithC

There will always be those who take their freedom for granted and there are many like me, who served and appreciate what you did. You fought for both of us, so we could have and express our opinions without fear. Some people will never understand what that means, because it was given to them freely. They have always had it and they gave nothing for it.

Before this thread gets locked, I wanted to thank you for both of us.

Crazy Grandpa
lilgamz
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Posted: 29th May 2006 18:29
Dont say you joined up to for me. I didnt ask to be protected by anyone.

So you guys did what you guys did for yourselves. They paid you and you got a free education or whatever, but that was between you and uncle sam.

If you asked me I would have said "dont join up".

After you joined, I would have said "dont go."

So dont say you did it for me or for my right to be outspoken against tyranny.

You guys all want to close this thread. Thats how much you really care about free speach.
x1bwork
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Joined: 9th Nov 2005
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Posted: 29th May 2006 18:38 Edited at: 29th May 2006 18:41
Quote: "Haditha"

Like Hadith? As in the sayings and practices of Mohammed, the Muslim Prophet.

So,its a slam against Islam as well. Clever. Really. A$$hole.

Seeings how you're on a religious slaughter,why not make references to the Old Testament as well. If youre going to bash the Muslim,might as well have a go at Christians and Catholics as well.

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