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Newcomers DBPro Corner / Kinda Curious About Programming Methods

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dlefik 2008
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Posted: 4th Jun 2006 07:58
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Been kinda wondering, but when any of you sit down to make a program, regardless of whether or not it's a full blown application, game, or just a snippet, how do you approach it? Do you actually write out the program on paper first and figure it all out that way then go back and type it in, or do you just sit down, open DarkBasic and start typing away. I'm just trying to see if it would be better to plan any kind of code out on paper first then go back in and type it out or just sit down and start typing away.
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DARKGuy
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Posted: 4th Jun 2006 08:29
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Well, most programmers write some diagrams or stuff about how they want their game to look like, others even write lines of code in paper! however, if you want my personal opinion, I rarely sketch something before programming - all my "sketches" are images & 3D models I find around or make for the game I'm thinking about. However when I'm bored at school sometimes I draw things for my game (levels, enemies, props, etc) but it's very rare - I prefer to go on and start typing .

It's good to plan at least the way how you're going to make your game, so you can have a slight overview of the idea in general and modify it later, so it won't be too much hassle on the coding


"As sudden as I arrive, as sudden as I leave."

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smallg
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Posted: 4th Jun 2006 11:47
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i only write things down if i have a problem that is going to be a fair way in (i.e. isn't possible to program at that time) that way i can be working in the game and working out possible problems at the same time.... ofcourse i only do that when i have had enough of looking at the computer screen, otherwise i just type out the game without any reference at all, just the idea in my head.

life's one big game
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 4th Jun 2006 15:12
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Just start typing, with the manual handy for my first project. The second project will have parts copy pasted from the first project. Mostly the opening parts with Hide Mouse etc. This continues for many projects until I am copy pasting Functions, and Subroutines from old projects to new projects.

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RUCCUS
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Posted: 4th Jun 2006 15:48
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Like Pincho said, its good to have a working frame before doing anything. Something as simple as this;



That gives you movement, sight, and the main client settings to work with. Now implementing your user model/maps and other code is relatively simple, instead of starting right away with the map models and shooting and whatnot.

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monotonic
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Posted: 4th Jun 2006 18:11
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I have found that if you dont plan things out prior to coding it then you tend to run into problems when the project becomes larger. Planning is vitaly important, whats worse spending a few hours planning or spending a few weeks coding then find out that the way you have implented things is not going to work in your engine?

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CattleRustler
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Posted: 4th Jun 2006 19:00
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The longer you program, the better you get at how to go about projects, regardless if they are games or apps, and regardless of their complexity. I find that the more modular you can make your code, and the more generic reusability you can work into it, the better off youll be at any juncture. I usually always write something down first, even if its just an outline or a task list for the app. If the app will need custom classes then Ill outline those as well, then, its off to coding

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Zotoaster
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Posted: 4th Jun 2006 20:16
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I just start coding, and I rarely write anything, but sometimes if I come across a really mathematical problem, I will sketch it down and draw everything in, and figure out the best way to do things. If you see it in a diagram it's always easier that way than if you keep imagining it.

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monotonic
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Posted: 4th Jun 2006 20:26 Edited at: 4th Jun 2006 20:29
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It doesn't matter how long you have been coding for you will always run into problems when developing large apps/games. I work with a developer who has been in the industry for over 25 years and he still runs into problems when things are not documented and planned. What CR said about the longer you have been coding you learn to make your code more modular and resuable is absolutly correct also I think you learn to make your code better at handling errors, for example like when I first started out I never checked to see if an object or file existed before trying to use it (naive coding ). Speak to any professional and they will tell you the same.

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Phaelax
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Posted: 4th Jun 2006 21:51
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I just sit down and start typing.

"Using Unix is the computing equivalent of listening only to music by David Cassidy" - Rob Pike
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 4th Jun 2006 23:19
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monotonic is correct, you can plan and plan but still run into problems with unforeseen issues, and/or the client making changes to a fully developed system (story of my life - lol) but at any rate theres really no formula thats set in stone.

live and learn - and make sure they pay you hourly!

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dlefik 2008
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Posted: 4th Jun 2006 23:27
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cool, thanks for the replies guys. I guess i'll just stick with the way i'm going with just typing out ideas, but maybe now i'll start working out my project outlines first since i don't do that. maybe it'll make things easier for me in the long run if i do the layout first. it's just amazing to look at some of the really complex programs out there that some people do and it makes me wonder how the hell they make such a complex program without confusing themselves, especially when they have 1000's of lines of code and not even remarked.
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Daten
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Posted: 5th Jun 2006 00:03
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The thing that i wonder is what part of the game do u start with first being it the GUI or the main screen or menu for that matter

Life is Death and Death is a Release Not a Punishment
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RUCCUS
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Posted: 5th Jun 2006 04:03
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In my experience with other programmers Ive seen and myself, you generally start out with the most important part of the app, usually being the player movement/main physics engine for collision and whatnot, and leave the GUI and other things that pretty the game up to last.

But as stated, just do what feels right to you.

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Darth Vader
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Posted: 5th Jun 2006 16:46
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Theory

I always start a program idea with theories. I in my head write out Pusedo code and then jot it down on my PPC. But rarley do I jot it down! You know what my biggest failure with learning DBpro is? Its lack of studying other peoples code which I do rarley but when I do do it I understand things completly (almost sometimes! ). I think I am going to study other people's code snippets! You know I still can't program sliding colision!


When in Trouble with anything visit here your number one stop for help
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 5th Jun 2006 17:17
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Quote: "The thing that i wonder is what part of the game do u start with first being it the GUI or the main screen or menu for that matter
"


Start with what you aren't sure about. A new programmer might start with the menu, because he has to learn the simple parts first. But whatever parts you don't fully know already, it is best to do them in the order of simplest to hardest. If something sounds totally impossible to understand, then try a totally different project.

Quote: "You know what my biggest failure with learning DBpro is? Its lack of studying other peoples code which I do rarley but when I do do it I understand things completly (almost sometimes! ). I think I am going to study other people's code snippets! You know I still can't program sliding colision!"


I find it hard to read other people's code. Seems that they can do magic like David Copperfield, and some commands that I have never heard of like....

object in screen

See, I didn't know about that command.

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Phaelax
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Posted: 5th Jun 2006 21:43
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GUI is usually the last thing I do, as that is less than trivial. Ruccus pretty much hit the order I do things in. Movement and collision first, then maybe replace cubes with actual models. A good example of how I do things might be my RTS tutorial. 12 chapters now and I haven't even hit an graphical interface yet.

Quote: "The longer you program, the better you get at how to go about projects"

You have a better idea of what to expect in further development and so you can plan for it better early on. That's not really an issue if you got plenty of documentation and thorough diagrams which you can follow.


Quote: "Seems that they can do magic like David Copperfield,"

I've seen him live twice when i was a kid.

"Using Unix is the computing equivalent of listening only to music by David Cassidy" - Rob Pike
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dlefik 2008
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Posted: 6th Jun 2006 23:44
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Quote: "I find it hard to read other people's code. Seems that they can do magic like David Copperfield, and some commands that I have never heard of"


yeah, ive tried that approach too, trying to learn off others peoples techniques and i think when you do that, it's too overwhelming and feel like just givin' up. that's why i quit doing that.
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Phaelax
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Posted: 7th Jun 2006 00:02
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You want a programming job, you better get used to reading other ppl's code.

"Using Unix is the computing equivalent of listening only to music by David Cassidy" - Rob Pike
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monotonic
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Posted: 7th Jun 2006 00:23
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Quote: "You want a programming job, you better get used to reading other ppl's code."


Absolutly, that is where documentation is essential, without it you have to go through and figure it out and ask questions etc until youve got it cracked, but if you have structure charts, program flow and logic documents to reference then yours and everyone elses life is much easier.

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Darth Vader
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Posted: 7th Jun 2006 10:45
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Quote: "You want a programming job, you better get used to reading other ppl's code."

Just so long as the remark their code!


When in Trouble with anything visit here your number one stop for help
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indi
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Posted: 7th Jun 2006 13:59
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god i hate working on other peoples code. no one comments, you dont have time in faster offices to scratch yourself.
/* a little remark every now and then goes a long way */

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