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Geek Culture / U3 Smart Thumbdrive / Flash Drives.... Question

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The Lone Programmer
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Posted: 5th Jun 2006 02:59
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I just got a U3 Smart Thumbdrive / Flash Drive and I have questions which I could not find answers to on google.

Apparently the drive has the capabilities to run software directly from it. I downloaded the freeware software 'OpenOffice.org U3' and it worked great.

My concern is, does anyone know how to change normal software so it will work with a U3 device? I have several programs that I enjoy using that I would like to put on my thumbdrive and use where ever I may be.

An example software I would like to have on my thumbdrive is:
Microsoft Access

OpenOffice.org cannot read my .mdb files so I figure I would just try to find a way to install Access to my thumbdrive. Easier said then done I guess.

Does anyone know how to install ordinary programs to a thumbdrive so that way I could run them on any computer without installing? If I have to some how convert them into U3 format can someone guide me how. I know that a .u3p file is just a .zip file with a .u3p extension. The U3 website told me that one. I examined the files inside the package and cannot figure out what is so special about them to make them run properly.

Any help appreciated. I am really interested in getting a good deal of my software to work on portable devices.

Thanks,
The Lone Programmer

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Les Horribres
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Posted: 5th Jun 2006 03:12 Edited at: 5th Jun 2006 03:14
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Use google... it isn't that hard to read the FAQ on the U3 web page...

oh... and rename one of the u3p files as .zip


Besides, it doesn't run from the thumbdrive, it runs from your hard drive. It just deletes it later.

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The Lone Programmer
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Posted: 5th Jun 2006 03:38
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Argh I already accomplished this.

I know how to view the files in a .u3p file and I knew about the FAQ webpage.

I did not know about the fact that it runs from the hard drive rather than the thumb drive.

How can I use this knowledge and my programming skills to construct something that will allow me to have my everyday program on my thumbdrive? I need to figure out a way to do this without having these programs write to my registry or anywhere else without permission.

Any ideas?

The Lone Programmer

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re faze
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Posted: 5th Jun 2006 05:41
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it would be a step back to distribute software on a thumb drive no?
it would probably reduce piracy but still...

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The Lone Programmer
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Posted: 5th Jun 2006 05:52
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Huh???

Without this "U3 Smart Technology" is it at all possible to install a program onto a removable media to use on random computers?

By doing this I run programs and no one would know about them because they would not be physically installed on the computer. Also if I do not have administrative rights to install programs on a computer it would also benefit me.

The only thing I could imagine stopping an installed program from running on removable media would be a registry factor. Anyone know of other factors that would prevent programs from running on a removable media?

Never meant for a piracy outlook to come from this. I just wanted to prove that people paying for U3 programs are essentially being ripped off.

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The Lone Programmer

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Steve J
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Posted: 5th Jun 2006 06:11
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if they dont require registry, yep.

Wii rules.
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The Lone Programmer
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Posted: 5th Jun 2006 06:23
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Steve J
Happen to know how U3 Smart Technology works then? I mean how does it take programs and run them on any computer? Rumor has it that U3 programs are regular programs. I mean I looked for my self and the U3 OpenOffice had the same files as the normal one and it ran the same. Are they writing the registry files and removing them when finished?

I've seen some of my buddies pass around software with each other that normally needs to be installed, but they just drag and drop. I assume it works the same was as this U3 stuff.

I will make it my goal to get to the bottom of it though.

The Lone Programmer

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Steve J
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Posted: 5th Jun 2006 06:34
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Yes that is how U3 works, I assume, as it makes a lot of sense to how they are able to do it. Or maybe they write temp files that hold data. If you have normal software that doesnt need registry, then it is capable of being on flash drives, and being used place to place. Sometimes, if it requires registry it works anyways

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Les Horribres
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Posted: 5th Jun 2006 06:52
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@The Lone Programmer:
Sorry, I read half way though before I figured out what you wanted and posted on that...

As for U3, as far as I understand it merly unzips the file to your hard drive in a folder located at %USERDATA%\application data\u3 (or something like that). After the device is unplugged this folder is simply deleted.

I am not certain of registry files, but I think they still exist (my U3 drive got curropted bout 3 days after purchase) common setting changes saving might indicate that the u3 drive might rezip the files to store back on the device after you run it...



But as for running an application from a drive... that is rather simple, just copy files and run. Running a microsoft product... you would need to copy over application data files, write registry files corresponding with installation and uninstall and that does not include several other files I suspect are filtered thoughout your system.


Most software isn't like microware. They aren't insanly devoted to crime deterent. For Instance, almost every game I have can have it's files be burned to CD and run off of any other computer from that cd [with cd patch of course]. Great when abusing the power of overpriced public computers ;P.

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The Lone Programmer
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Posted: 5th Jun 2006 10:03
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U3 apparently works even when a person is not logged into an Administrator account.

How can this work when proper registry cannot be written when logged into a regular user account?


The Lone Programmer

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Les Horribres
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Posted: 5th Jun 2006 10:14
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the reg user has regedit access rights. the program 'possibly' might not run, but most programs use the registry so it would be pretty stupid to block that.

Now you 'technically' can't install programs, more so run an installer then actually install programs, but U3 doesn't install programs. It copies them.

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The Lone Programmer
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Posted: 5th Jun 2006 18:16
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An installation is just the proper extraction and placement of files on a computer.

I don't know how what Merranvo makes any sense. Manually places the files or copying the files would be the same as installing them.

Is there any programs that will tell you what files will be installed onto a computer and what registry entries will be written before its actually done? I would like to know completely what is being put on my computer, so that way maybe I could do a similar thing.


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the_winch
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Posted: 5th Jun 2006 19:05
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http://portableapps.com/ The programs are modified so they store data on the usb stick instead of the computors local drive.

The U3 stuff you are talking about just sounds like a marketing gimmick.

By way of demonstration, he emitted a batlike squeak that was indeed bothersome.
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Les Horribres
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Posted: 5th Jun 2006 20:36 Edited at: 5th Jun 2006 20:37
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In my book, installing is when the computer adds registry elements and/or modifies the system. Merely copying files is just copying... nothing is changed. Well, either way... the way you view it is probally is more accurate.

@the_winch... U3 is a gimmick, I told them so. The whole 'real' concept is the menu and the clean up. You get a nice menu to run programs from and it deletes them after the device is removed. They even go so far to yak about needing specail hardware to use U3 software. Bull I say, you just made the software only work on select drives to slow down piracy of it.

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The Lone Programmer
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Posted: 5th Jun 2006 22:25
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Ok I've gone and done some experimenting

I went to http://portableapps.com/ which the_winch supplied me and downloaded the OpenOffice.org software. I put it on my "Non U3 Compatible" thumbdrive. Well it works fine. I also put a U3 version of the software on my "U3 Compatible" thumbdrive. It also worked fine.

This is what my results gave me:
1> U3 Thumbdrive ran faster by probably 800%
2> U3 Thumbdrive ran without fail while other ran 90% of the time

Now I think these results occur because as it was mentioned, U3 takes the files from the drive and temporarily writes them to the hard drive. A hard drive will read far more faster than a USB device so I think that is why I have such a powerful speed. As for the failing, I think it might be so slow and trying so hard to load that it just silent crashes. Not entirely sure on that one yet.

I also ran two more tests:
1> Run Portable OpenOffice.org from CD-R
2> Run Portable OpenOffice.org from Hard Drive

Both of these tests failed. I got an error when using from a CD-R, but I assume that is because the program is trying to write files in the local directory on the disc. The CD-R is closed so it can't write them thus giving an error.

As for running from the Hard Drive I am completely stumped. It tries to load and gets as far as the splash screen but never gets any further. It should load though because a Hard Drive should act the same way as a thumbdrive correct? I mean both have write privelidges and read privelidges.

If I could figure this out, then maybe I can find a way to extract the files from the removable media onto the Hard Drive temporarily and run them at full speed just like U3. My goal is to replicate the U3 theory and prove that U3 is a gimmick for novice computer users.


Anyone have any ideas on why my experiments are acting how they are and why some of them are failing?

The Lone Programmer

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the_winch
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Posted: 6th Jun 2006 00:04
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Read this forum thread http://portableapps.com/node/473

Could be your U3 drive is just faster than the other one.
Since U3 apps are zipped it could be copying a smaller compressed file to the hard drive and uncompressing it is bigger than running a bigger uncompressed app from the usb drive.

By way of demonstration, he emitted a batlike squeak that was indeed bothersome.
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The Lone Programmer
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Posted: 6th Jun 2006 00:56
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Hmmm....

This is very weird. I mentioned in my last post that in my experiment with the hard drive that it failed. Well I tried it again but in a slightly different way and it worked.

Let me explain my steps in what I did and it worked:
1> Extract the OpenOffice.org folder into a folder on my computer
2> Burn this newly extracted folder onto a CD-R
3> Copy the folder from my CD-R onto my desktop

I don't know why it works that way, but it did. Anyone have any theories on why it works this way and it wouldn't just let me run directly from the extracted folder?

Thanks,
The Lone Programmer

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Les Horribres
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Posted: 6th Jun 2006 00:59
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Exactally what are you running, lone programmer, the autorun loader for open office or the exes in the office directory? I'll try it mabey later, but I know that some portable apps STILL copy to the harddrive in form of the temp folder, if a file isn't there... crash, or silent crash.

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Les Horribres
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Posted: 6th Jun 2006 01:02
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Did you try copying the extracted folder to the desktop?

There is also the chance that the cd-burn missed a file that was inuse, and was recreated after. Make sure open office is completly shut down by CADing it in processes.

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The Lone Programmer
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Posted: 6th Jun 2006 01:20
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Hmmm....

I tried taking my extracted OpenOffice program and copy / pasting it to another location and it worked the same as me copy / pasting it from the CD-R.

I don't know why the program is not running from the extract location.


Anyways,
When I run the U3 OpenOffice on my thumbdrive I assume through my reading that it is first extracted locally onto my hard drive. Well how does it accomplish this task so fast? I mean if i were to manually do a copy / paste from my USB to my hard drive it would take at least double time if not more. How does U3 allow it to boot up so fast?

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mm0zct
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Posted: 6th Jun 2006 18:26 Edited at: 6th Jun 2006 18:29
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i just have a generic 1 gig usb flash disk that i run apps from that i want to move around. i just installed plain ofenoffice2.0 to my hard disk and copied the files and it runs like a dream straight off the flash disk on any pc. same for devc++.
basically any rewritable removable media can be treated as being a hard disk and so can run apps. the only problem is when the app say writes it's cd key to the regestry to check as in ut2k4.

to clear things up:
installing runs through an installer application which often uses microsoft's installer built into windows. this is what is disabled often. this adds the programs to the add/remove programs thing in control pannel too.
if it behaves as you suggest and copies to the hdd then runs it, this is simply copying like you do all the time with files on your desktop etc.
regestry access is still allowed to some degree no matter who you are logged in as because even notepad uses the regestry to remember recently accessed files.

this u3 thing probably only uncompreses things to the hdd as it needs them, which is why it loads fast. it doesn't copy everything then run it, it copies it as it runs it.

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Les Horribres
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Posted: 7th Jun 2006 03:40
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Quote: "this u3 thing probably only uncompreses things to the hdd as it needs them, which is why it loads fast. it doesn't copy everything then run it, it copies it as it runs it."


Then you would need a virtual environment (other possible?) to catch the requests and delay them... and I refuse to believe that it is that complex.

My drive copies at 10mb/s Open is like what, 80mb? less? that is just 8 seconds.

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mm0zct
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Posted: 8th Jun 2006 00:56
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hah 8 secs wasn't my definitiion of "fast" that's why i thought it might be doing something fancier. but i guess it's a very reasonable load time so you're probably right.

AMD athlon 64 3000+, 1GB ddr400, 400GB total hdd, ati radeon x700pro 256mb (pci-e), onboard nvidea graphics (6100 chipset, sharing 128mb ram) 3x17" tft(@1280x1024).
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