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Geek Culture / Any one else work with the TORQUE game engine

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Delta Games
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Posted: 8th Jun 2006 14:24 Edited at: 8th Jun 2006 14:26
I havbe recently moved on from Dark Basic PRO to an indie development kit called the TORQUE game engine. Its 50 pounds for an indie licence and 250 for a corprate licence (current stock market price). All thought a enjoyed working with DBP TORGUE brings me closer to what i am more intrested in games development (map and level building and C++). The engine comes with a map editor, GUI editor and a console (for programing) your games can even make it to xbox 360 if they are realy realy good (this dosent happen often). Just droped in to the forums to tell you guys about it.
http://www.garagegames.com/ where you can get it

Below is a screen from my current game. I hope to launch it with a publisher this xmas or self publish it.
Darth Vader
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Posted: 8th Jun 2006 14:36
Looked good but the graphics are a bit dated! I was considering it, but when I downloaded this guided tour thing I was put off by the dated graphics! Apart from that you have done a rather good job! I also couldn't be really bothered (At the moment) to learn C++. (I am still grasping Dark Basic Pro!!!)
Have Fun!


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Van B
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Posted: 8th Jun 2006 14:42
Really, you mean there are other things like DBPro that actually aren't DBPro?

Wow!

If not for this post I would probably still consider the world to be flat.


Don't take this the wrong way, but your project looks like a standard DBPro project - not sure why you've posted a screenie that does'nt show us anything new. Torque is like Blitz, we know it's probably very good, but are waiting on evidence enough to make us even consider learning a new language. It won't happen, not when DBPro has so much cool stuff now and soon.

Are Garagegames gonna use that line as a selling point now?, the XBox 360 thing, where you have a 1 in 8 billion chance of getting your game published on XBox - damn that's lame!. It always amuses me when C++ programmers suggest switching, like we're using BASIC because we're simply unaware of other languages!.

Aegrescit medendo
Delta Games
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Posted: 8th Jun 2006 14:49 Edited at: 8th Jun 2006 14:52
the screen shot is a very early one from the game and i wouldent say that my game is the best one out there make with this engine. And no garage games arnt useing the xbox 360 thing as a selling point as they cleary state that only the very best of the best will make it to 360 and a xbox 360 licence has to be got as well. I am not s h i t ing over DBP here its what realy got me into programing i am just saying there are other good engine out there as well.

EDIT: I would also like to point out that screen is a small part of the over all map and TORGUE is a more universal engine as games will work on Windows, MAC and that other OS (the open source one). Not that i ever liked MAC.
Tinkergirl
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Posted: 8th Jun 2006 15:51
My bf is a professional coder, I've bought him Torque and DarkSDK - he's not used Torque since the first month I bought him it, but he's been writing his own game engine with DarkSDK support.

DB has C++ coding - that's what DarkSDK (DarkGDK) is. I realise it's always a personal preference, and I'm glad you've found a way that helps you make better games, but I'd have gone the DarkSDK route myself - less of a learning curve from DarkBasic, but with all the power of C++.
Bahamut
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Posted: 8th Jun 2006 16:57
Quote: "map and level building and C++"


But wouldn't that make it more difficult to learn? The whole point in DBP is that it's an easy language to learn, so you only have to concentrate on how to arrange and execute your code. DB/P does exactly what I want it to do. Why should I bother switching? For someone like me, to whom coding is just a means to an end, why do something more difficult for the same results?

Still, it's good that you found something you like.

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Jeku
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Posted: 8th Jun 2006 21:34
Regarding DarkSDK--- I've never tried it so please excuse my noob-level. Are you able to use objects with DarkSDK? I faintly remember hearing that you can only do procedural-style coding with DarkSDK, which defeats the whole purpose of going the C++ route.

If you can use proper OO techniques than DarkSDK would be well worth it. If not, then Torque would be the way to go.

And yes, those graphics look dated, but there are some seriously good-looking games done with the Torque Shader API.

"I understand creative people. After all, I worked with towel designers." - Ray Kassar, former head of Atari
BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 8th Jun 2006 21:43
Torque Shader definitely looks pretty. I have a Torque Indie license, and it's a great tool. The in-game editor is great since you can script objects with behaviors and everything then just pop them in the game using a set of attributes you defined in script. My only beef is with the poor documentation (they only recently started working seriously on it) it was difficult to understand how you could achieve what you wanted in script or by editing the engine code. We kind of got tired of this little hitch and redesigned our project moved over to making a Half-Life 2 mod.

If anyone like that Benny guy wants to make a Halo-ish FPS with massive outdoor levels, or just an RPG where you walk around and hack things up, then Torque can get you going rather quickly. I still have the book for it--since it is such a nice package I definitely still want to play around with it.


I'm going to eat you!
MiR
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Posted: 8th Jun 2006 22:41
Quote: "I faintly remember hearing that you can only do procedural-style coding with DarkSDK, which defeats the whole purpose of going the C++ route."

Not that I´m an expect OO coder but it seems to me that it´s perfectly able to be OOed. It´s just a library of functions. The same functions as in DBPro but with a db infont. In other words it´s perfectly possible to write in a OO style. The library itself isn´t written in an OO style but that doesn´t matter. At least that´s what I think. I´ve only used structs though so I don´t have any experience of using it with objects.

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 8th Jun 2006 23:03 Edited at: 8th Jun 2006 23:05
There is a limited access to the GSDK objects - although, of course, you can wrap the GSDK functions in a class.

Has anyone tried the C4 graphics engine ? It looks pretty impressive, and its continually updated.

Come to the last Unofficial DBPro Convention (http://convention.logicstudios.net/)
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Fallout
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Posted: 8th Jun 2006 23:10
Torque has some very cool features. The landscape engine has a built in procedural LoD system that allows you to have truly massive landscapes with really huge viewing distances. That's not possible with DBP command sets, but it probably is possible with the vertex/mesh/memblock commands, but difficult and it'll have a huge overhead. So Torque definitely has some big advantages to DBP.

But at the end of the day we're not here because DBP is the fastest and has the most features. We're hear because it's the easiest, quickest to develop in and has most of the features we want/need.

Jeku
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Posted: 9th Jun 2006 00:37
^^^ Agreed.

I'd like to see someone do a simple puzzle game in Torque. In the words of George Bush Sr., "Not gonna happen."

"I understand creative people. After all, I worked with towel designers." - Ray Kassar, former head of Atari
BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 9th Jun 2006 00:51
There's TgETRIS, TGE Tetris.


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Richard Davey
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Posted: 9th Jun 2006 03:54
Quote: "There's TgETRIS, TGE Tetris."


That's a client side script game though, and to be honest, have you actually looked at the code for it?! It's massive! Thousands of lines for a simple 2D Tetris game, with no highscore, no start menu and not even different coloured blocks. Torque, in the right hands, is extremely powerful. But what isn't?

Bite my shiny metal ass
BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 9th Jun 2006 08:15
Most of it is just a bunch of functions that refer to each other so it can load through the console over the current game. But yes, simple things in Torque are not fun, which is why I've got Irrlicht and DBC.


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Delta Games
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Posted: 9th Jun 2006 13:23
Quote: "But wouldn't that make it more difficult to learn? The whole point in DBP is that it's an easy language to learn, so you only have to concentrate on how to arrange and execute your code. DB/P does exactly what I want it to do. Why should I bother switching? For someone like me, to whom coding is just a means to an end, why do something more difficult for the same results?

Still, it's good that you found something you like."

yea it does make it a lot harder but i am starting to work with the unreal engine, 3D studio max etc this september in college and i want to work with a program that is close to the C++ used by developers rather than some thing nothing like it.

Quote: "Torque Shader definitely looks pretty. I have a Torque Indie license, and it's a great tool. The in-game editor is great since you can script objects with behaviors and everything then just pop them in the game using a set of attributes you defined in script. My only beef is with the poor documentation (they only recently started working seriously on it) it was difficult to understand how you could achieve what you wanted in script or by editing the engine code. We kind of got tired of this little hitch and redesigned our project moved over to making a Half-Life 2 mod.

"

yea the shader engine is realy good but i wanted to get something less expensave to start of with. The shader engine was used to make marble blast ultra for the xbox live arcade.
Delta Games
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Posted: 9th Jun 2006 13:27
Quote: "Torque has some very cool features. The landscape engine has a built in procedural LoD system that allows you to have truly massive landscapes with really huge viewing distances. That's not possible with DBP command sets, but it probably is possible with the vertex/mesh/memblock commands, but difficult and it'll have a huge overhead. So Torque definitely has some big advantages to DBP.

"
thats the main reason i went with torque it has some realy powerful World editing features and a great GUI editor (used to make menus, loaders etc)
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 9th Jun 2006 13:30
I think that DBP is better for the amateur developer. I can produce good looking games rather quickly.

Here is something that will not change with your choice of engine - someone that cannot make good games in DBP will not be able to make good games in Torque. It comes down to programming and conceptual skills. I'm good in whatever language I program in, because I can visualize the end result of what I'm trying to do before I even start.

Game making is much more than the tools you're using. It's a combination of skills that is usually held by different people.

Good luck with it all.


Come see the WIP!
Matt langley
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Posted: 9th Sep 2006 00:42
Quote: "Are Garagegames gonna use that line as a selling point now?, the XBox 360 thing, where you have a 1 in 8 billion chance of getting your game published on XBox - damn that's lame!."


Not exactly an accurate representation... the chances of getting into Xbox 360 Live Arcade is much (MUCH) better than that if you have a fun/well developed game (in an engine that can port and handle all of the MS requirements and certs). Now with XNA and TorqueX your chances are a whole lot better, heck you can test dev on your retail Xbox 360 in your home, an exciting time to be an Indie.

Matthew Langley
TGB Dev Team, Docs and Demos Team
GarageGames, http://www.garagegames.com
Richard Davey
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Posted: 9th Sep 2006 01:24 Edited at: 9th Sep 2006 01:24
Quote: "Not exactly an accurate representation... "


The numbers quoted are obviously just pure exageration, but the sentiment probably isn't too far from the truth for the vast majority of indies. Especially given what actually appears on X-Box Live Arcade at the moment. You can count the number of true home-brew there on how many hands?

To create a 360 game (and share it with friends) is extremely exciting, and to do it for free with XNA Studio even more so. But even Microsoft acknowledge that only the real best of the best will ever make it any further than the 'share with your friends' stage. Sentiments expressing anything different need to be backed with some statistics really. Perhaps in a years time we'll see?

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 9th Sep 2006 02:04
Hey, I'm a Torque user/DBP Backstabber/mofo/TGC target. The reason being I prefer how it is structured more, it suits my needs better, sure Torque script is harder and so is C++, but nothing like a challenge.

Torque is top quality engine, so is DBP. The community isn't too differant there, you get the helpful (Including the sarcastically helpful) bunch, the flamey bunch and the childish bunch, and the Musashis...

As for Torque dev on Xbox 360 (reffering to normal Torque, not Torque X/XNA) it is possible, they proved it with their marble game, but you need the other things, the changes you'd make something on the Xbox marketable, is very slim, which is why we indies aim for Mac, PC and Linux.

I myself have already started something, but am having trouble with a bit of code, surprisingly, the C++ bit works fine, its the Torque Script bit I'm stumped with .

Quote: "Below is a screen from my current game. I hope to launch it with a publisher this xmas or self publish it.
"


Very unlikely, your screeny doesn't even show your own media, to make a publishable game by your self in Torque and sell by the end of the year after only just getting it? Nope...sorry mate, you won't.

Quote: " and a console (for programing) your games"

Actually, you program your game in notepad/a text editor, or in one of the Torque IDEs laying around like Torsion. The console is for debugging, like you find in Unreal Tournament/Far Cry/Quake where you find god mode etc, and if you look deeper you find a whole list of debugging options.

Sorry mate, to me it looks like you've become too attracted by the gui editor and the level editor, they are quite attractive and clear away awkward jobs, same for the script system, but its a lot harder than it seems.

Jeku
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Posted: 9th Sep 2006 03:27
Quote: "I myself have already started something, but am having trouble with a bit of code, surprisingly, the C++ bit works fine, its the Torque Script bit I'm stumped with"


So what you're saying is you modified the Torque engine in C++? I thought 99% of the Torque games were done using just Torque Script, which is not modifying the engine. Or am I wrong?

Matt langley
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Posted: 9th Sep 2006 03:35
Quote: "The numbers quoted are obviously just pure exageration, but the sentiment probably isn't too far from the truth for the vast majority of indies. Especially given what actually appears on X-Box Live Arcade at the moment. You can count the number of true home-brew there on how many hands?

To create a 360 game (and share it with friends) is extremely exciting, and to do it for free with XNA Studio even more so. But even Microsoft acknowledge that only the real best of the best will ever make it any further than the 'share with your friends' stage. Sentiments expressing anything different need to be backed with some statistics really. Perhaps in a years time we'll see?"


Very true and very well said. In fact I am very impressed with your repsonse, so far you've responded the most respectful (and real) compared to most other engine forum mods I've been too. Too many people think that just because you use or dev an engine it doesn't mean your ignorant to other engines and/or haven't used or created your own solutions

I would like to add two points though:

1) The odds of getting onto an Xbox 360 console now are better than ever, even if still not ideal

2) If you never try, you'll never succeed.

It's important to look forward. The problem (which from your words you know very well) Indies have is looking only ahead or not looking ahead enough. Finding that medium is very difficult and requires patience and discipline. In the case of picking up something like TGB you can know that it won't be hard to port it to TorqueX to get running on XNA and then when your game is finished you can pitch it as a workable Xbox 360 game and have a much better chance of getting it on Live Arcade. The odds seem minimal in relation to who has succeeded, but the lack of success is not because there isn't the opportunity. If someone makes a great game in our Torque engines and is really fun and polished and has potential for live arcade we will work with them to get it onto Live Arcade... obviously no garanatees but it is as simple as that. Now as we all know most Indie projects never make it that far, to the finished + fun + polished game step. The problem isn't that there isn't opportunities, its that people need to embrace the opportunities. I have a feeling XNA will open up the Indie market drastically which will bring more success stories, along with drastically more failure stories for any engine. Just my thoughts

Matthew Langley
TGB Dev Team, Docs and Demos Team
GarageGames, http://www.garagegames.com
Matt langley
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Posted: 9th Sep 2006 03:44
Quote: "So what you're saying is you modified the Torque engine in C++? I thought 99% of the Torque games were done using just Torque Script, which is not modifying the engine. Or am I wrong?
"


Not sure who said that number though maybe I can give a bit more informed insight into that number. It differs on a per engine basis.

- TGB -
Most games done in TGB (Torque Game Builder) are done in 99% script. Sometimes there are small modifications done to the source, obviously if you want to or are ambitious you can do lots of things in the source, it's faster and more efficient but isn't needed. TGB was designed to be that way, our end goal (which we are fairly close to) is that you can code just about any type of 2D (with optional 3D rendering on a 2D plane) game in just script. Its mostly true now with some excepctions. Doesn't mean you you can't use the source, some people like to add fairly advanced aspects to the engine.


- TGE -
In TGE (Torque Game Engine) would say that about 90%-95% of the -gameplay- is done in scripts. You can possibly get up to 99% though you lose efficiency that could be gained by adding tid bits to the source. In fact those tidbits can come almost completely from resources. Other aspects you may need to do primarily in source, like pathfinding. Something like that can be done in script but isn't very efficient if solely done in script. Ideally you would implement the hefty loops and process intensive parts in source and just manipulate it in script.

Matthew Langley
TGB Dev Team, Docs and Demos Team
GarageGames, http://www.garagegames.com
Darth Vader
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Posted: 9th Sep 2006 05:31
Quote: "Torque has some very cool features. The landscape engine has a built in procedural LoD system that allows you to have truly massive landscapes with really huge viewing distances. That's not possible with DBP command sets, but it probably is possible with the vertex/mesh/memblock commands, but difficult and it'll have a huge overhead. So Torque definitely has some big advantages to DBP.

But at the end of the day we're not here because DBP is the fastest and has the most features. We're hear because it's the easiest, quickest to develop in and has most of the features we want/need.
"

Dark Basic Pro does have a lot of features! Not all are built in though, Dark A.I, Dark Physics, Blue GUI, etc there are lots each handling different sets of features.

Dark Basic will do me anyday. Thats my opinion, I wouldn't go with Torque but again thats my personal opinion. I would go to Ilrricht.
Good luck!


Jeku
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Posted: 9th Sep 2006 07:45
@Matt langley - Didn't notice you work for GarageGames My 99% stat was something that I assumed after reading through different tutorials on the garagegames.com site. I have owned TGE since 2003, and recently purchased the RTS Creator starter set to get me a leg up. So far I am very impressed with the engine, but I haven't seen any need to open up the VS solution file and modify the engine itself.

Matt langley
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Posted: 9th Sep 2006 07:50
Glad you enjoy it Your 99% mark was fairly accurate, for most of the people working in the engine, my numbers were more in reference to projects finished... most of the time they added thing to the engine outside the scope of the engine though to be fair.

Matthew Langley
TGB Dev Team, Docs and Demos Team
GarageGames, http://www.garagegames.com
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 9th Sep 2006 10:43
Quote: "@Matt langley - Didn't notice you work for GarageGames "


Thought I recognised the name...You just popped out of nowhere

Quote: "So what you're saying is you modified the Torque engine in C++? I thought 99% of the Torque games were done using just Torque Script, which is not modifying the engine. Or am I wrong?"


You can edit the source for extra features that can't be accomplised in TScript (Or is best done in C++) Like saving/loading, custom GUI elements etc. Or just just ditto to Matt .

Kentaree
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Posted: 9th Sep 2006 17:17
What's the advantage of using the Torque engine as opposed to using C# along with XNA though? Personally I very much like the C# language and XNA isnt overly complicated either, does putting Torque on top of that just add an extra layer?

Like at the moment you have DBP which is a layer over DirectX, and Torque which is a layer over OpenGL (and DirectX?), but XNA is another layer up, as its over DirectX. You keep abstracting out, and you start losing efficiency altogether

Jeku
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Posted: 10th Sep 2006 00:47
The strengths of the Torque engine are what's keeping many people using it. For example the multiplayer capabilities are award-winning. Tribes was the very first game to have 16-player cooperative play, and when you buy the Torque engine you have that included.

Of course you can do what Torque can do using C# with DirectX, but it will take years if you start from scratch. Direct3D doesn't handle as much as you might think it does.

Fallout
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Posted: 10th Sep 2006 01:12
Torque is also multi-platform, which is very attractive for someone who wants to make a few bucks with their game. You basically double your target market. Although there are obviously more peeps with PCs, I would guess that because MACs have fewer top titles available for them, MAC users are more likely to buy indie game titles. Just speculation there, but either way, multiplatform is pretty cool.


Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 10th Sep 2006 01:18
And if I'm not mistaken Torque X will be using C# anyway for the XNA platform.

Its Torque's strengths that made me want it (except mulitplayer, I have no need for that) Plus multiplatform is very useful for if and when I give up Windows. Plus with the right dev kits and liscence you can go further than Windows, Linux and Mac, but its only been done with the marble game as far as I am aware.

PAGAN_old
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Posted: 10th Sep 2006 05:24
damn, from what i read torque looks really powerful but very hard.
i am an amature game programmer who started programming less than a year ago. i like DB pro, i fiddle around with it but i never really finished anything in it. i just like screwing around and getting to know this thing.

some people say thet Dark basic is an awsome language for gaming and its easy. other friends hate me for using dark basic calling me a retard and telling me that dark basic is a horrible language and games in it come out to be overcomplicated and have way too much unneeded code that c++ can do the same thing much better with less code. They even tell me that C++ is easier and just like basic with tons more commands. and that if i want to learn programming, i should start with at least C or C#

i dont know who to belive

Also i am curious about the Dark SDK thing. someone tell me more about it.

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
Oddmind
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Posted: 10th Sep 2006 06:37
Quote: "games in it come out to be overcomplicated and have way too much unneeded code that c++ can do the same thing much better with less code."


Quote: "just like basic with tons more commands."


captain i think we have a classic case of contradicting yourself on one point in 2 sentences.

FACT: In DBPro one can achieve results identical to those of a c++ program with less lines of code.

Sure there are a bunch of acceptions, but this is because C++ is more powerful and asks for more information because its more customizeable... you can do more with it, rather.

formerly KrazyJimmy

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Jeku
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Posted: 10th Sep 2006 08:01
Quote: "FACT: In DBPro one can achieve results identical to those of a c++ program with less lines of code."


Whoa--- I wouldn't go that far. DBPro can't handle something like Half-Life 2 or UT2007, which was clearly made with C++.

Darth Vader
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Posted: 10th Sep 2006 11:25
Quote: "Whoa--- I wouldn't go that far. DBPro can't handle something like Half-Life 2 or UT2007, which was clearly made with C++."

Wanna bet?


Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 10th Sep 2006 13:15
Quote: "FACT: In DBPro one can achieve results identical to those of a c++ program with less lines of code."


FACT: Dettel kills 99.9% of bacteria
FACT: Dettel Protects

Couldn't resist...



Quote: "Wanna bet?"

Ditto, made with something more powerful than DBPro though, expensive, but more powerful, I don't know what made half life 2, but UT2007 was made in Unreal Engine 3, which hasn't been fully released, but is power, not to mention expensive.

I would say DBP might be able to create something similar to HL2, the FPS rate might not be a happy one, but the technology seems to be there, the physics with DP, an FPS isn't too bad to program, the graphics will require a good modeller and that mouth movement program or Softimage|Face Robot for the facial animation, texturing here and there, the rest would be up to the shaders, we've got shadows, per pixel lighting, water (although no refraction) a refraction shader that uses the texture, normal maps. I'm sure it will be doable with hard work and a powerful PC.

dark coder
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Posted: 10th Sep 2006 14:08
If you just looted all of hl2`s media and managed to get the mdl files to load(may need converting) then yes with a tonne of time you could make the same game, but due to dbp`s awsomely slow 3d engine you will be looking at 10fps without aa, The only bits which you coulden't really do are some of the diagnostic tools that are accessable in hl2`s console cause dbp just doesnt have the commands to get some of the values it can display, and things like aa/af selection and such, but the game engine itself could be replicated i guess, anyone up for it? .

Hallowed are the ori.
Fallout
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Posted: 10th Sep 2006 14:29
I think the point PAGAN's matey boys were making was that the resultant code is larger in DBP. So we type in 10 commands to get the job done, but the resultant C++ code behind all those 10 commands is maybe, 300 lines. If coding directly in C++, you could maybe strip out 100 lines from that code and optimise it to do precisely what you want.


Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 10th Sep 2006 14:48 Edited at: 10th Sep 2006 14:49
Quote: "anyone up for it?"


Don't be silly, unless I have a team of people who will work and are capable, like a good programmer who know DP and DarkAI, a 3D modeller, Animator, Facial Animator, Shader coder, Musician/SFX, a 2D guy and me sitting in my arm chair giving orders . Except with my comp, the FPS will probaly be lower than 10fps as I get 10-25fps (estimated) in the HL2 demo

Kentaree
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Posted: 10th Sep 2006 17:09
Quote: "Of course you can do what Torque can do using C# with DirectX, but it will take years if you start from scratch. Direct3D doesn't handle as much as you might think it does."


I'm aware of that, XNA does handle alot more though. If TorqueX adopts it along with C#, it instantly loses its multi-platform advantage, apart from possibly the X-box compatibility. My question was what would be the advantage of useing TorqueX over XNA?

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 10th Sep 2006 19:19
The idea of Torque X is to be directed at an extra Market, while its other Torque users still take advantage of TGE, TGB and TSE with C++ and the multiplatform abilities.

Quote: "My question was what would be the advantage of useing TorqueX over XNA?"


Pre programmed physics/collision and scripts, a level editor, a gui editor, leaving really only the gameplay to be programmed (with other things to be programmed to avoid contradiction, but those aren't completely necessary) and the rest to be done by mouse. The ability to launch functions straight from the GUI, a console for real time debugging. The exe is all pre compiled (Unless you source edit, if you do then you need to recompile in C# for TorqueX and C++ for Torque) the exe runs code off of the scripts which is why it is precompiled. To me thats plenty of advantages, I'm sure there could be more.

Jeku
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Posted: 10th Sep 2006 22:14
Quote: "Wanna bet?"


Um, yes. Like was said, DBP is not fast enough to handle it. And once DX10 games are the norm, it will be impossible to achieve the same effect without DBP upgrading to DX10 as well. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Matt langley
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Posted: 10th Sep 2006 23:01
Lots of comments made since then, hopefully later I can give a better post, but figured I'd at least point out something quick.

Right now you can dev a game in TGB or TGE. That game will then run on Windows or Mac, and to a lesser extent Linux with a minor ammount of work. You can then port that game to TorqueX fairly easily and it will run on the XNA framework on Xbox 360... btw we also have TSE 360 that run on Xbox 360 independent of XNA for another alternative.

Matthew Langley
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 11th Sep 2006 12:47 Edited at: 11th Sep 2006 12:48
Quote: "1) The odds of getting onto an Xbox 360 console now are better than ever, even if still not ideal"


1) Surely now *anyone* can get onto 360? I guess you mean the odds of getting onto XBL Arcade? In which case yes, I agree totally. I did read an interesting article in Reto Gamer magazine this month where they were commenting on the release of the classic Castlevania SOTN game on XBLA, and how this could pave the way for other back-catalogue classics (Castlevania being a PSOne game of course) being released. It just got me thinking that not only are you now contending with the PomPoms of this world, but you're also fighting for virtual shelf-space against Konami/Capcom/Sega/etc classics. That's one hell of a fight

But, your second point summed it up nicely:

Quote: "2) If you never try, you'll never succeed."


So true. So very true indeed.

Cheers,

Rich

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 11th Sep 2006 12:54
Quote: ""2) If you never try, you'll never succeed.""


Unfortunately, there are those who think, if you never try you never fail. (Although failing to try)

The downside to all this XNA stuff TSE 360 stuff for me is, I don't have a 360 and probaly never will

Richard Davey
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Posted: 11th Sep 2006 16:29
Quote: "The downside to all this XNA stuff TSE 360 stuff for me is, I don't have a 360 and probaly never will"


Heh.. well, that is a good point too I don't actually own a 360 either. Although I would not rule out buying one, probably if only for Gears of War and Halo 3. But once Vista ships they'll become so integrated anyway it might be worth picking one up. And hopefully cheaper too. But at the moment there's no real benefit to buying one (for me personally), certainly nothing that my PS2 and Gamecube can't already offer. I will definitely buy a Wii though. So I guess I may become one of those Wii360'ers eventually

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 11th Sep 2006 17:23
Quote: "But at the moment there's no real benefit to buying one (for me personally), certainly nothing that my PS2 and Gamecube can't already offer."


Just like me really. I just hope Vista works out, and doesn't annoy me as much as XP has. (98 and 95 were alright for me...except with 98 I pushed it quite far, considering I went on random sites with 100 pop ups and clogged up me hard drive then, with no AV/Firewall, it hacked it pretty well...)

As for next gen games and 360, don't need one, I can run what games I want on my PC (surpisingly) like Call of Duty 2, but hey when Vista does come out and XNA and Torque X, I guess I'll complement my games (Show off) on a console, if the PS3 and Wii don't lure me first.

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