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Geek Culture / Oklahoma Game Bill Signed Into Law

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TDP Enterprises
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 15:20 Edited at: 20th Jul 2006 02:47
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http://www.gamespot.com/news/6152609.html


Part of me wonders how this passed, then the rest of me remembers that Oklahoma is in the Bible Belt. But if they ever tried passing a law like this in my state......


Anyone else think/hope this is gonna get shot down as unconstitutional?

I mean, i can undertsand my state(MN) passing the law that fines minors for trying to buy M and AO rated games, thats fine, but to outlaw those games in the household even with parental approval???

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TDP Enterprises
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 15:32
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not really, heres a lil clip from the article

Quote: "Under the law, no person, not even minors' parents or guardians, would be allowed to give or show them an inappropriately violent game."


But still, thats like saying parents arnt allowed to let their kids watch an R rated movie in the house. I think the government took one step too many, like you, this doesnt afect me, but who knows where theyll try something like this next.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 15:50
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This is just to excuse bad parenting, getting a game with violence and sex scenes in is like buying 18/R rated movies, underaged people aren't allowed to buy 18/R rated movies, same for games, the problem is that parents think its okay to buy it for their kids and then it turns out the game effects their kids and start getting anal about it and rise up against gaming companies...Theres a nice label with an R/18 on it, which means thats the age it should be bought for...bad parenting, not the fault of the game companies as they are made to entertian mature audiences and those who are mature enough to realise the differance between reality and virtual reality. There should be no laws passed about parents not buying these games, I mean I watched 18 movies, played GTA, listened to music with swearing in before I was even 12 (minus the music and you go back to the ages of about 7) I mean I love Storm of the century as a kid where the guy kills himself with an axe...now I find the acting just funny.

I just have to say...HA! What idiots! Don't pass laws to work around bad parents, so good parents suffer...make the parents suffer.

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Oddmind
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 20:24
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i agree with musashi.... its so stupid the way they do that.

The game freaking says on the bvack what the content is... I watch parents on cellphones going through game stop telling the store owners to find games for them. The kids obviously not old enough to buy it for himself and not old enough to drive and hes asking for max payne. That is a sick twisted game if ever there was one. A good game, but not for a 10 year old...

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Jeku
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 21:43
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Great--- all we need are more politicians telling us how to raise our kids.

I agree 100% with laws that ban stores from *selling* M games to minors, but to not allow parents to buy their kids Doom 3 is ridiculous.

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 21:49
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What's actually stopping you from buying your kid Doom 3?


It's like a Megaton Cat radar, 24 hours a day.
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Jeku
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 00:26
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Well, nothing, probably---- but I don't want to know that I'm breaking the law just to buy my kid Doom 3. I mean, if my kid goes to school and brags to his friends about it, then a teacher overhears, etc.--- don't want a fine for educating my kids thankyouverymuch.

"I understand creative people. After all, I worked with towel designers." - Ray Kassar, former head of Atari
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TDP Enterprises
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 00:28
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Can you imagine how many hormonal teenagers would be upset if they werent allowed to play halo 2 anymore?

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Philip
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 00:29
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Games in England carry certification. So, for example, really violent games can carry 15 or 18 ratings. This makes it an offence for shops to sell games to people under that age. Just as it is an offence for a cinema to allow people under the certified age to watch a movie.

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TDP Enterprises
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 00:33
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yes.....we have the ESRB...

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Saikoro
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 01:39
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You would seriously, honestly think that politicians had better things to do with taxpayers money. We have gangs, rape, murder, shootings, war, drug trafficking, lack of school funding, and other things, yet they target videogames. GJ higher ups.

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Michael S
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 03:06 Edited at: 15th Jun 2006 03:07
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Quote: " uses brutal weapons designed to inflict the maximum amount of pain and damage"


i.e. HALO

Quote: "does not demonstrate the consequences or effects of realistic violence"


pretty much every game with violence in it

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TDP Enterprises
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 03:06
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YES! lets blame GTA san andreas for today's gangs in L.A.! I mean, if it werent for that darn GTA, we wouldnt have gang violence, now would we?

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Michael S
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 03:08
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nope looks away from the gang stareing though the window

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TDP Enterprises
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 03:09
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**Waves at Eureka Seven through the window**

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Michael S
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 03:11 Edited at: 15th Jun 2006 03:15
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Quote: "(1) is glamorized or gratuitous,
(2) is graphic violence used to shock or stimulate,
(3) is graphic violence that is not contextually relevant to the material,
(4) is so pervasive that it serves as the thread holding the plot of the material together,
(5) trivializes the serious nature of realistic violence,
(6) does not demonstrate the consequences or effects of realistic violence,
(7) uses brutal weapons designed to inflict the maximum amount of pain and damage,
(8) endorses or glorifies torture or excessive weaponry, or
(9) depicts lead characters who resort to violence freely""




i can understand the ones like 4 and 8 but why put it in the same catagory as porn? store owners should crack down on stuff like not selling games to people under 17 in the case of an (M) game unless a parent or gardian allows it. but realy whatever this guys on ill take 2 please

one person on there said
Quote: " Mr_Flesh
Mr_Flesh
I think the consoles should be 18+ only and this should be enforced at the store. Few teenagers are gonna be able to plunk down the cash by themselves anyway and reasonable parents will still buy one for thier kids. and this would clean up liability issues. Next time a kid goes rogue cause he played GTA sony, microsfot, nintendo can say well how'd he get his hands on a console they're for 18 and up....oh the parents bought it for them...well go talk to them. When is our government going to force parents to do thier job instead of leaving it up to the rest of society."


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Saikoro
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 03:15
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Quote: "(7) uses brutal weapons designed to inflict the maximum amount of pain and damage,"

Well I guess that throws:
the Final Fantasy series
the Battlefield series
any Ninja games
any fighting games
the Doom series
Fallouts RTS game
the demo FPS game tutorial that came with DBP
and many others

out the window.

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ionstream
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 03:17
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Notice how it says pain and damage, not many games I've played use weapons built for pain, just killing strength.

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Michael S
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 03:20
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wow a loop hole has been found

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TDP Enterprises
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 03:22
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loophole

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TDP Enterprises
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 03:23 Edited at: 15th Jun 2006 03:24
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Quote: "depicts lead characters who resort to violence freely"

they cant play zelda

EDIT: hell they cant even play mario

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Michael S
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 03:24 Edited at: 15th Jun 2006 03:28
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The funny thing is Zelda has an (E) rating I believe

EDIT: now this is ridicules
http://www.nintendo.com/theater

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Les Horribres
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 03:32
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Quote: " then it turns out the game effects their kids and start getting anal about it and rise up against gaming companies..."


You know, the whole REAL issue isn't that the parents think the games are bad for the children, it is that they want them off so THEY can play. jk.

Now name one game that has affected children. Are we blowing up cars, buying guns and blasting away at the 'aliens'. No, I find the whole thing idiotic. Sure there is mild imitation, but not mass murder from playing a video game. The fact is, I believe, that the parents view the console as 'a soul sucking machine'. They see their child fixated on the telivision, not getting up to eat... and claim that something is wrong with their child.

Worse is when they take things 'into their own hands' and decide that 1 hour of play is enough... some games are made to force you to play the entire level in 1 sitting, and pulling the plug before it is over means that 1 one hour wasted. Why are they complaining about agressive tendencies? What the parent did is the same as the child pouring coffee on his/her work.

Quote: "If Pacman had affected us as kids we'd be running around in dark rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music"


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Jeku
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 03:49
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Well, we can't pretend videogames don't affect little kids. Of course they do.

But, that being said, they need to make it an offense to sell M games to kids--- period. ID them or whatever, just like at the movie theatre. Why can't that be enough??? I mean, to block parents from buying their kids an M game is daft. Hell, they certainly don't stop a father from bringing his kids to an 18+ (R in America) movie, do they?

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Perokreco
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 03:56
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How do you mean games influence children? I played wolfstein and Duke Nukem when i was 6 and i am now 16 and a pacifist and never been in a fight in my life.
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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 04:18
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Quote: "depicts lead characters who resort to violence freely"

...I see...

This is full of good intention, but really the state shouldn't try and take the job away from ESRB... I mean, if a game is reated M, that should be good enough. The parents buying the game for their kids are the ones to blame, not the game makers who make it for a mature audience. But if ESRB gives it an E or T rating, that should be good enough for the state. I don't think mario or sonic should be banned because the main characters resort to violence rather than talking things out with the goombas and eggmans robots...

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Wandering Swordsman
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 04:37
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In Zelda 3:A Link to the Past Ganon can be killed with the butterfly net... Non-violent (In a way... Or maybe slowly chipping away at him is more violent...) and funny...

Anyway, I don't agree with some of what is in this law. But let me tell you a few stories...

I was frequenting a gaming store to partake in the glory that is Kingdom Hearts (I wonder if slamming a large blunt metal key into your enemies is outlawed by this law... or bludgeoning the children on the first island into submission with your wooden sword during the training battles. KH is more violent then people think lol!) and there was this little kid roaming the shelves. He asks his parents to buy (Was it the 50 cent game... or The Punisher. One of the two.) and they get it for em!!! The games rated M for god sake and the brats 4!

I have seen this countless times. Once I went up to the ?parent? a kid had just handed a copy of an M rated game to and said 'Hey, you might want to read the rating information on that' the guy jumped and recoiled from me with a look of pure horror like I was going to mug him or something. Reluctantly (After I said, "You know there’s nudity and heavy violence in that.") he began searching for this mystical ESRB 'rating' information and I swear his eyes almost seemed to bug outa his head when he found it.

The truth is 'most' parents don't know or don't care what there kids are playing. Many played different VGs when they grew up or didn't play them at all and don't realize the level of violence and other 'content' that are in the currant titles.

In the end, I don't agree with this law. It is the parents responsibility to determine what their children should play game wise. And yet, I'd like store keepers to have to mention to parents who have small children in tow what the games rating is and why if it's not rated E.

Society has become twisted, minors playing violent video games is not the cause. It's a symptom of a much larger problem.

Sometimes it isn't even ignorance about the titles nature, it's just resignation to let the child have his/her way. I've seen some out of control kids in VG stores who threateningly 'demand' the purchase of games... and they get them??!

(I could rant on forever about this one...)

For the record, though I'm really into old games (System Shock 4 EVER!) I'm not actually that old. Nor do I avoid playing violent games. I just don't think young children should be melting peoples faces off with blowtorches and what not in video games for bonus score and say 'cool' well doing it... kinda creepy...

GTA is the root of all evil? Why does it always come back to this game, it's tame compared to some of the newer releases.


And on another note, lets look at games built specifically 'for' children. Most of them suck compared to say Halo, and that’s not even looking at what passes for educational software...

Can I blame children for wanting to play the superior games over Mc-Doogals farm adventure? (Or some other 5$ budget title being over priced to 39$) Not really. (I’m not bad mouthing Harvest Moon with this ‘Farm Adventure’ comment, that’s a good series… although the interface could use some work in the more recent installments…)

Personally I'm disturbed by some of the developers comments for recent games such as 'Assassins Creed' (Interesting looking game... I wonder if it will play like thief, or more action based... But then I'm getting side tracked. What did the spokes person say, I think it was something like "We're attempting to create a bond between the player and his target, so that when he goes to kill him they'll be this moment of recognition between the two and the scene will be touching." There I think I only missed a few words of the speech, it was on TV on a VG review show. Ack I can't remember the name maybe Electronic Playground?) there trying to simulate murder as closely as they can. The era of the murder sim here and it sells well sadly. In several new games stalking unarmed civilian targets and killing them (For that sake alone.) has become the 'point' of the games design. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth, I'm not completely sure how this is going to effect a young mind that plays it. But it has to effect it somehow, and I doubt its positive...


(Must... Resist... Continued... Ranting...)

I'll leave it at that for this post,
although I'd love to debate it!

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BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 05:19
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I think they would have much better results if they funded parent awareness programs. Then you wouldn't have situations like Wandering Swordsman had with the 4 year old.

And why are they getting so hung up on violence? The complexities of murder have been explored forever in movies, books, cave paintings, etc. Don't even try and tell me you watched Strangers On a Train and didn't think about ways the main character could get away with murdering the creep's father just to get him off his back.


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Three Score
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 05:31 Edited at: 15th Jun 2006 05:38
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I can see it now...*gazes*
Final Fantasy XV teenager edition(or whatever)
1:"oh I'm gonna win this battle!"
2:"no your not, I have a secret attack"
1:"oh yea beat this; IGNORE!"
2:"now my secret move; TALK ABOUT IT!!"
1:"dang wtf no one one because the battle was resolved"
3:"who ordered pepperoni"


OMG though this is serious this affects me!


edit:
will there ever be any way to restrict "violent" games here cause that would be quite horrible, or what if a kid is making the next GTA what then

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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 05:38 Edited at: 15th Jun 2006 05:41
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Quote: "And why are they getting so hung up on violence? The complexities of murder have been explored forever in movies, books, cave paintings, etc."

Games are new, and therefore can be the scapegoat for all of societies problems... And because it's not a media standard quite yet, they can still try to control it.

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Jeku
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 06:00
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Quote: "How do you mean games influence children? I played wolfstein and Duke Nukem when i was 6 and i am now 16 and a pacifist and never been in a fight in my life."


Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say that kids will "re-enact" the things they do in games. But violence affects kids--- it's a proven fact. I'm not saying that it makes them lash out or become psychopaths.

Like you, I played Doom and Wolfenstein when I was young.

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 06:13
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Quote: "Well, nothing, probably---- but I don't want to know that I'm breaking the law just to buy my kid Doom 3. I mean, if my kid goes to school and brags to his friends about it, then a teacher overhears, etc.--- don't want a fine for educating my kids thankyouverymuch."


Ha right, seeing as parents have been buying alcohol for their kids for ages without some kid blabbing his mouth at school and getting his parents fined?

I agree with you. It's up to the parents.
(But I don't agree with you on the selling to minors issue. I don't want to be a lifelong 17 year old gamer and be denied HL2 just because I am still considred a minor by some law created to put parents at ease)


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Wandering Swordsman
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 06:48
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Quote: "Ha right, seeing as parents have been buying alcohol for their kids for ages without some kid blabbing his mouth at school and getting his parents fined? "

The teacher would step in, probably try and get them setup with a social work as well.

Quote: "Like you, I played Doom and Wolfenstein when I was young."

And you don't still? For shame!
*Sigh* Even today the 'speed' of Doom's gameplay is excellent.
*Checks the ammo on his plasma rifle as a horde of imps snarl from around a corner * Good times!

Three Score, I hope that horrible vision of Final Fantasy XV (teenager edition) never comes to pass. It's frightening, could probably cause violence as people take out the frustrations on anything within range as they fling their controllers. (Now wireless controllers at that... )

Speaking of which, has anyone else seen these 'retarded' commercials on TV saying "If someone's bulling you, just ignore them." and the like. This is bull, the type of 'bullying' that’s going on in schools today will get you killed (Or severely beaten) if you ignore it. *Shakes his head in disbelief* The worlds messed up...

In the past I've found most of the violence censorship in games to be almost a joke. Anyone remember Shadow Warrior's 'invisible' grizzly death sprites? (I flipped the censor on for kicks, and when I diced an enemy with my sword I thought, at first, dang a glitch... but it was not a glitch. LOL!) That was odd: *slice* *Sprite vanishes* *Grizzly sound effects* *corpse appears*

Quote: "And because it's not a media standard quite yet, they can still try to control it."

I hope they never win the war to control the media that is gaming, and yet, I kind of hope they never lose that battle completely either.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 08:38
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Quote: "Speaking of which, has anyone else seen these 'retarded' commercials on TV saying "If someone's bulling you, just ignore them." and the like. This is bull, the type of 'bullying' that’s going on in schools today will get you killed (Or severely beaten) if you ignore it. *Shakes his head in disbelief* The worlds messed up..."


"Give me me your lunch money or I'll beat the snot out of you"

"Lalalalala I'm not listening, I'm ignoring you so you can't hurt me"

*Whack!*

"Ow! Guess I was wrong"

Stupid isn't it? How stupid are these people saying ignore bullying, telling parents by law how to raise their kids, heck I'm sure some violent games make kids feel better after a day of being bullied, they could imagine that the super 800 tentacle monster with a moustache going mumamia! Is the guy who stole their lunch money, therefore stress release.

Quote: "Great--- all we need are more politicians telling us how to raise our kids."


I think politicians are funny, just watching them on TV makes me laugh, they're so full of bull thinking they're doing the right thing and making things better, plus I love it when they get shirty when arguing a point, I was watching Tony Blair last night and it was funny. However their sound bites just get on my nerves more than anything.

I think politicians should actually look at the situation as a whole before making decisions, I mean they seem to think getting rid of violent games for children is doing what is best, but they fail to realise how unfair it is on good parents and generally good kids, I mean we've all played uber violent games here young, and we're not screwed up (okay we are, but not that kind) I mean I'm sure some games like Socom play propaganda to certian people and make them worship the Navy . Which is really why some of our politians (UK and US) annoy me. So much for the land of the free.

夢の海に目覚めること - Into the sea of waking dreams - I am by John Clare
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Saikoro
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 10:56
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Quote: "I mean I'm sure some games like Socom play propaganda to certian people and make them worship the Navy ."

gud 1, but its specifically the Seals, remember?

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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 10:58
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All this and oddly enought Youth violence in the US is at a 30 year low and has decreased drastically since the release of GTA (go figure). I did alot of research on this recently for a speech (and english paper hell I'm lazy) and this whole media is making our youth more violent is a complete farce and is backed by our federal governments own studies and statistics as being c*ap. Personally I just think kids are to damn lazy to get up from in front of the games to do anything violent.

Do I think that the violence has gotten a little out of hand in the games, absolutely. I don't like GTA it crosses a line in my moral sand, but that's my opinion. I would like to see their stance on America's Army. Guess all I am saying is soon you will be told what language you are allowed to use in your own home, you will be sentenced to 3 years in the pen for buying your kid a Twinke, and we will all address each other like "HELLO 152341725 BE WELL" (Not shouting monotone). God I envision San Angeleas from Demolition Man.

PS. These laws from the people who looked the other way when people were getting lynched because of the color of their skin and that was fine by them.
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 11:49
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My 9 year old son has friends that watch 18 rated films. He hears about them, tells his younger sisters and now they won't go upstairs by themselves. He also thinks it's OK to pretend to shoot his siblings and chop their heads off with a sword. We don't actually have any toy weapons in the house. I'm a responsible parent, yet my children are still affected by the actions of the irresponsible ones.

It's called dumbing-down and normalisation. We are breeding a generation of children who have no emotion towards violence and suffering. I'm quite sure my son will will never pick up a real gun or sword. But his generation are the adults, politicians and decision-makers of the future. If you don't react emotionally to the news of a death or the suffering of millions, you'll have no passion or moral foundations to make socially responsible decisions.



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SirFire
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 11:51 Edited at: 15th Jun 2006 12:09
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I vote for Batvink.

[EDIT]
It is my thoery that the majority of FPS games are military training simulators that encourage the kids of today to become the footsoldiers of tommorow. Now where did I put my tinfoil hat...

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 12:04
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Yeah Batvink for president.

I can see how games do effect children which is why if a parent is going to buy a game which by rating shouldn't be bought for them should be able to make sure that the kid still realises the values, I'm sure Vink's son may act like he's being violent and playing games, but its nothing to worry about as long as he knows killing is wrong, I mean I used to shoot people all the time at primary school, cut off heads etc, as it was all a game to me.

The unfortunate is, if a child plays a violent game they can be affected quite negatively, which is the case with mis-parenting, if your kid is gonna play a violent game or watch a violent movie, its up to you to make sure they come out from it with out them becoming a serial killer, terrorist or enlisting to the Navy

Quote: "gud 1, but its specifically the Seals, remember? "

Yeah yeah, except seals rule when they're not being eaten by killer whales or Polar Bears...ooooh you mean Navy Seals, nah they still get eaten. In the words of Henry Rollins 'Rock and Roll isn't disposible like US Marines' (Navy, Marines same differance )

夢の海に目覚めること - Into the sea of waking dreams - I am by John Clare
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Les Horribres
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Posted: 16th Jun 2006 04:51
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Quote: "It is my thoery that the majority of FPS games are military training simulators that encourage the kids of today to become the footsoldiers of tommorow. Now where did I put my tinfoil hat..."


PopSci
HaHa! Love it!

Quote: "if your kid is gonna play a violent game or watch a violent movie, its up to you to make sure they come out from it with out them becoming a serial killer, terrorist"

Statistically, the majority of mass murders are geniticaly programmed for it.

Quote: " or enlisting to the Navy"

He would get kicked out... the navy is discipline...

As for this argument that video games affects children... LIFE affects children to the same degree. On top of that, the imitated violence is a very easy to control phenomena. Just sit down, and talk about it.

It IS a proven fact that what is observed is often imitated, especially in regards to children... however if you counter such imitations with responsible parenting you can form a premise within the Childs mind.

Further more, violent videogames can act as a stress relief (such as punching a pillow [or if you are masochistic, punching the wall]).

Quote: "I believe society is flawed; our notions on life, on child rearing, stem too far back to be of relevance in this day and time."


My Government sucks, join the rebellion!
One can only know so much, only comprehend the world to a point. After that we exist as impressionable beings. Doing nothing, being nothing, forever nothing.
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Wandering Swordsman
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Posted: 17th Jun 2006 01:45
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*Sigh* We need Taito to make The New Zealand Story 2 --->

And that will fix everything...


Quote: "Statistically, the majority of mass murders are geniticaly programmed for it."

Where are you getting this statistic? (Link?)

When I dream,
I carry a sword in one hand,
a gun in the other...
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