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Geek Culture / Blueray HD-DVD which one do u think is going to be winner

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Commodore kid
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Posted: 18th Jun 2006 17:28
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If anyone remembers the betamax/vhs war of the 80s they will know what is going to happen in the next few years. They say that blue ray and hd-dvd will have a simalar war. which do you think will win?

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Dazzag
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Posted: 18th Jun 2006 17:31
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BluRay. Mainly because of the PS3 (millions of deffo sales while the 360 and it's add on drive get beaten by the PS2 by the look of it). Although the way that thing is getting bad press is a bit worrying. Plus BluRay looks to be about twice as expensive as HD-DVD in the beginning.

Just wait until each one costs about £20 from Tesco and buy a combo unit.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
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TDP Enterprises
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Posted: 18th Jun 2006 18:11
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I dont care which one wins, but i think it will be the bluray. Mainly because of the ps3. If i remember correctly, thats how DVDs got so popular; because there was a built in player on the ps2. So when all thses people go out to buy their ps3, theyll coem home and all of a sudden have a bluray player.

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Saikoro
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Posted: 18th Jun 2006 18:53
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Quote: "If i remember correctly, thats how DVDs got so popular; because there was a built in player on the ps2."

I thought it was the other way around, the PS2 got popular because it had a DVD player for cheap.

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TDP Enterprises
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Posted: 18th Jun 2006 19:03
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Quote: "I thought it was the other way around, the PS2 got popular because it had a DVD player for cheap."
Yeah thats right.

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Chris Franklin
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Posted: 18th Jun 2006 19:04
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blueray

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Tinkergirl
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Posted: 18th Jun 2006 19:37
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It's down to which one a 'certain' industry supports. No, I don't mean the games industry. I mean that other industry. The one that we won't talk about on a forum with minors on it. Makes films of a particular genre.

That industry supported VHS - and VHS won.
That industry embraced DVD - and DVD did very well indeed.

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BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 18th Jun 2006 19:57
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How long was VHS the standard? It seems a little early for a new format.


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The admiral
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Posted: 19th Jun 2006 00:09
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I believe I read a comparison of the two and it seemed that for the industry hd-dvd was better because it was cheaper and could do everything needed for high definition blu ray on the other hand is a new and expensive technology that will take a while to catch on people wont be willing to fork out all that money just for a better picture and more space on the disk.

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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 19th Jun 2006 00:11
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Quote: "How long was VHS the standard? It seems a little early for a new format."


it was quite awhile up till the early 80's video stores still had both beta and vhs as I remember. But technology is increasing at an exponential rate what's hot today is behind the times in a month. I am just waiting for the day I buy a new video card for some uber game and by the time I install it a patch has made the card obsolete. Heck my computer has more RAM now than my computer had hard drive space 8-10 years ago (and lets not discuss the whopping 2k of memory my Timex Sinclair 1000 had and that was only about 25 years ago)
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Dazzag
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Posted: 19th Jun 2006 00:52
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Quote: "Makes films of a particular genre."
Apparently, so it goes, that that "certain" genre doesn't like HD full stop. Same goes for Hollywood. Basically top hi-def shows up all the flaws, so only the most flawless actressses (lets not beat around the bush, erm, sort to speak) will really do. Makeup only goes so far. Again, so it said in the odd Cosmo or other such mags that somehow end up on my (shared) lounge table. Only so many game and car mags a lad can read.... (plus the Bella crossword is pat on the back easy).

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
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Jeku
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Posted: 19th Jun 2006 20:16
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I don't see why the market needs more space, as DVDs look fantastic (especially with progressive scan and HDTV). Hard to tell who will win, but hopefully there will be players that play both discs.


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Josh
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Posted: 19th Jun 2006 22:47
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I can't think of a single Sony format that has done well; Betamax, MD, ATRAC and UMD Movies have all been useless or left behind by the market.

You'd think Sony would have learnt by now that it can't pull off producing new formats...

Back when the PSP was in development I said no-body would want to buy UMD movies for various reasons and I just got moaned at lol! And look what happened...

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Dot Merix
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Posted: 20th Jun 2006 04:22
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Like i said in the -i'm looking to buy an hdtv thread-... I work at Bestbuy and based on the fact that we carry like 3 tv's that would be able to actually support bluray to it's full potential, it makes me think that most people will probably go for hd-dvd which pretty much every tv going out these days has 1080i capability.

Bluray has 1080p capability, but there are very limited(and much more expensive) tv's that use that..

It's going to come down to visual quality and what people are going to be able to physically see in the store before they decide to buy a bluray player for 1400. Even hd-dvd players arent selling like crazy or anything, and those have a tag of 700.

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Wandering Swordsman
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Posted: 20th Jun 2006 04:40
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Jeku:
Quote: "but hopefully there will be players that play both discs."

I'm also hoping for players that will support both formats, but I also want CD-Rom support.

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Les Horribres
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Posted: 20th Jun 2006 04:59 Edited at: 20th Jun 2006 05:01
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looks at josh... orly. BluRay is not a format, it is a type of data storage (unless I am SEVERLY misinformed) using a blue laser to record and read data. As a blue laser has a much shorter wavelength the size of a bit is smaller, allowing more data to be stored on one disc.

HD-DVD will win, for a while. The sad fact is that BluRay isn't fully supported and already lost the DVD race... (I believe they were 'working' on the technology while DVD's were being introduced [meaning they had a working prototype]). The fact is, people like what everyone has.

For Instance, consoles are a market frenzy, you want the really powerful one... but it doesn't support the games you want... some people are unsure and end up buying multiple consoles or use their friends console... as you can see here, there is a choice issue.

Now, I do need to look into this, but I believe there are already DVD players being released with HD capability... if I am right in this aspect then people will more likely stay with what they have UNLESS they have a system that fully supports the new BluRay resolutions...


Now will BluRay get a market place? You bet ya. Although the capacity is very 'sketchy' It seems to be signifigantly better HD-DVD and in a world of Bigger is Better (and a high demand for data storage) BluRay is going to take the lead... this is why I predict that it WILL flow back and take over HD-DVD eventually people are going to want to show off their impressive HD Pictures from their Mini-BluRay Disc Camera...


@Above Quote... there ARE players in progress that support both formats. And in terms of commerce, if a bluray player comes out without HD Support the company is taking EXTREME risks (bluray may win, or it may lose... then they have useless factorys and excess stockpile).

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dark coder
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Posted: 20th Jun 2006 07:21
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Quote: "BluRay is not a format, it is a type of data storage (unless I am SEVERLY misinformed) using a blue laser to record and read data. As a blue laser has a much shorter wavelength the size of a bit is smaller, allowing more data to be stored on one disc."


doesnt this go for anything? cd`s to dvd`s, im sure each of the sectors are alot more tightly packed thus requiring a shorter wavelength laser.

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BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 20th Jun 2006 09:45
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I've decided not to get any BluRay or HD-DVD players until I get my 8.1 digital audio support from Dolby and all the DVD/BluRay/HD-DVD manufacturers.


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Luigi Mario
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Posted: 20th Jun 2006 10:36
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Hey, the PC industry fought over what would replace the ISA bus for almost ten years. I say (like it matters) that untill we get another top-notch standard, DVD is fine for all kinds of movies, and I've never been dissapointed with dvd format games, either. I say fire up the dvd player, pop in a certain genre of movie, and wait out the industrial war. I'd hate to have spent money on a pc with an MCA bus...

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Phaelax
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Posted: 20th Jun 2006 18:53
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I say HD because they've capped the max price of their dvd's to only $25 I believe, and the players cost half of the blu-ray players. And we all know how much Sony sucks at advertising.

I won't be buying one til probably next year, after I see what the dominate one will be and prices come down.

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Killswitch
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Posted: 21st Jun 2006 00:42
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I'm really unsure as to weather either will win. Most people don't have TVs which can take advantage of the HD picture quality of either of the new discs, and there's not that much more in terms of content that can get shoved on there which'll make them worthwhile. As for the PC market do we even need a new form of optical storage? With flash drives/MP3 players, external harddrives and even the increasing move to 'thin clienting' is something which is both expensive and expansive actually worth it?

I'll get a PS3, so I will be very much in the Blu-ray camp, but if it weren't for that I'd be quite happy sticking with my DVD player/drive.

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Commodore kid
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Posted: 21st Jun 2006 01:03
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What drive will nintendo wii have?

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Steve J
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Posted: 21st Jun 2006 01:16
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DVD and cube discs.

Wii rules.
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 21st Jun 2006 02:41
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I actually can't read Killswitches post with that flashing siggy. I tried to scroll it off the bottom to read his post, but his post is the top post with my settings, so it wouldn't scroll off, so I had to skip his post.

What will win?

VHS beat betamax because of the amount of movies available for VHS, and Betamax couldn't keep up. Betamax however was better.

So... Maybe Sony have a cunning plan. To release some Blue Ray media, that is only available on Blue Ray???

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Saikoro
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Posted: 21st Jun 2006 02:47
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@Pincho: If you use FF, get AdBlock and block it =)

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Les Horribres
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Posted: 21st Jun 2006 05:31
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Quote: "As for the PC market do we even need a new form of optical storage? With flash drives/MP3 players, external harddrives and even the increasing move to 'thin clienting' is something which is both expensive and expansive actually worth it?"


Are you joking? Even if each BluRay disc is $50 each, an external hard drive is still SIGNIFIGANTLY more expensive, Flash Drives... you would need $1000 give or take. Also BluRay discs are likly to rapidly decrease in price over time so that makes it more practical.

As for needing a bigger media storage device... you really aren't expanding thought here. Over the past few years the size of game media has rapidly expanded. Take the TES 4, it appears to require 4.6 GB of HD space, just under the DVD Disc max.

Even then, backups cost space... you can use 7 DVD's for a 40GB drive... 4 HD-DVD's... or 1 BluRay.

The people demand storage... the more, the better.

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The admiral
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Posted: 21st Jun 2006 06:45
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hd-dvds hold 3 times the amount of normal dvds and xbox360 discs hold like 9gbs more than enough oblivion was a huge game and only used half of that space.

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BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 21st Jun 2006 07:25
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Quote: "Even then, backups cost space... you can use 7 DVD's for a 40GB drive... 4 HD-DVD's... or 1 BluRay."


With dual layer (or whatever the hell it's called) HD-DVD gets 30GB. It's been said that BluRay won't initially be able to support 50GB until its version of dual layer comes out, whereas HD-DVD's will be out relatively early.


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Killswitch
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Posted: 21st Jun 2006 10:56
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@Pincho Paxton

Sorry man, is this better?

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Arkheii
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Posted: 21st Jun 2006 11:36
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http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/blu-ray.htm

Quote: "Blu-ray discs only do the injection-molding process on a single 1.1-mm disc, which reduces cost. That savings balances out the cost of adding the protective layer, so the end price is no more than the price of a regular DVD."


Well, that answers at least the price debate. Blu-Ray's design also seems more resilient to disc read errors than DVD's.

If it means more storage capacity _plus_ reliability, then I'll probably invest on a BD-ROM writer someday.

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Steve J
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Posted: 21st Jun 2006 11:53
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I think hd-dvd will win, mainly because it is backed by the film industry (majority), microsoft, and the consumer (cheaper)


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Dazzag
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Posted: 21st Jun 2006 12:37
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I heard TDK had produced a 200gb Bluray disc, and Sony were working on making one too.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
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Commodore kid
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Posted: 21st Jun 2006 19:40
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They call it blueray because the laser is blue and a blue lazers are more acurate and efficant.

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Commodore kid
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Posted: 21st Jun 2006 19:42
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I know why betamax lost it was becauese the machenes where to big and bulky.

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Zone Chicken
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2006 06:48 Edited at: 27th Jun 2006 23:07
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Not sure who will be the winner.

But in this guys review (the first one i have seen comparing the two systems) he tests using a dvd and claims both produced basically the same quality, but that HD-DVD is the winner of round one.

Quote: "For costing twice as much as the HD-A1, Samsung’s BD-P1000 isn’t anywhere near twice the machine. The sooner dual-layer discs are introduced with improved video quality and a studio puts out a title on both formats concurrently, the sooner we’ll be able to properly compare and draw more informed conclusions. Right now it’s just too early to declare one format rules them all.

So was I really fortunate enough to stumble upon what will surely be a sold out Blu-ray player by this time next week? Only time can answer that question. What’s clear now is the high-def fight is officially underway and round one goes to HD-DVD."


http://dvd.themanroom.com/dvd-newsview.php?id=00151

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Les Horribres
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Posted: 25th Jun 2006 01:13
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Quote: "With dual layer (or whatever the hell it's called) HD-DVD gets 30GB. It's been said that BluRay won't initially be able to support 50GB until its version of dual layer comes out, whereas HD-DVD's will be out relatively early."


The capacities are shrouded by press... Nothing has been released yet, but people are throwing around GB data like crazy. Hard to tell what is comming when unless you are dedicated to reading all the articles.

The fact that does remain is that BluRay is based off of better technology which makes its capacity superior to that of HD-DVD. And the way I see it is that HD-DVD will win. Support has already been included in a few DVD players... but as BluRay takes over the media industry allowing parents to record not a TINY HD video on a 13.5 HD-DVD (assume the 45GB tech passes) but a 60GB video on a bluray disc.

In comparison to current camera defs, the HD-DVD would record 4:48 hours and the BluRay would record 21:26 hours.

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 25th Jun 2006 02:01 Edited at: 25th Jun 2006 02:03
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Betamax...VHS. Blue Ray, HD-DVD. And now... Electric Car, Gas/Petrol combustion engine...........


http://www.jurassicpunk.com/movies/whokilledtheelectriccar.shtml

This is just an example of politics making it more complicated to make a prediction for our future.

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The admiral
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Posted: 25th Jun 2006 04:46
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Sure bluray is great technology but I thinks its a little ahead of us because its not really needed so much yet and its expensive thats why I feel hd-dvd is a better alternative ive also heard that there are still issues with bluray but im sure hd-dvd has its own problems to.

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code spinneker
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I am very much with the camp that says "HDDVD will win in the beggining but BluRay will come out on top" I believe that the greater storage capabilities of Blu ray will make it the choice for many in the media industry in the future, My only concern is that no matter what I get I dont want to only have some of the movies I want. When I bought my PS2 which I used as a DVD player I could play everything that came out on DVD. With this im going to have to worry about what comes out on what format and its going to PISS ME THE HELL OFF. IM really annoyed that Sony and whoever the hell it was who does the HD did not go through with the merging of both formats. I cant exactly remember the specifics but it would have saved the public a lot of pain if it was just one format. We dont want a war, the general public just wants to see its movies thank you very much. For the money im BLu Ray all the way though

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Les Horribres
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Quote: "IM really annoyed that Sony and whoever the hell it was who does the HD did not go through with the merging of both formats. I cant exactly remember the specifics but it would have saved the public a lot of pain if it was just one format."


As said many times... bluray is NOT a format. It is a new type of disc. A merger of 2 formats would even then be impractical it would need twice the space as a single format, in turn rendering it useless. Merging the two technologys is also frivilious, one uses a better laser and can steal any advancements in the HD-DVD industry while the other one uses the bigger red laser making it unable to make much progress. Now there ARE players comming out for all types of disc, so there is no worry there.

Quote: "Sure bluray is great technology but I thinks its a little ahead of us because its not really needed so much yet and its expensive thats why I feel hd-dvd is a better alternative ive also heard that there are still issues with bluray but im sure hd-dvd has its own problems to."


Quote: "Blu-ray discs only do the injection-molding process on a single 1.1-mm disc, which reduces cost. That savings balances out the cost of adding the protective layer, so the end price is no more than the price of a regular DVD."


Quote: "In comparison to current camera defs, the HD-DVD would record 4:48 hours and the BluRay would record 21:26 hours."

A note on this... 'to current camera defs' an upgrade on the def would mean that an HD-DVD mini disc would be far less then 5 hours making BluRay a very atractive alternative.


Quote: "I know why betamax lost it was becauese the machenes where to big and bulky. "

CK... read your history. I believe one of the first cellphones was a backpack that you wore. REALLY bulky. Computers typically took up whole rooms... size does not matter when the technology is young.

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