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Geek Culture / Please help diagnose pc issue

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CattleRustler
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Posted: 7th Jul 2006 16:14 Edited at: 7th Jul 2006 16:17
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Here's one for ya:

General: Nothing has changed hw/sw wise - same hw for over a year, this just appeared, starting this past saturday...

Symptom/Event:

1) From an idle desktop, inserted a game cdrom (EA NHL 2006), cd spun up to speed, desktop set to game resolution, saw ea logo etc like normal, cd rpm dropped off, screen went black, monitor went into standby, pc spontaneously rebooted After reboot, from normal desktop, reinstered cd, game started and all was normal from then on and the rest of the night until...

2) Later that night after playing other games (no cd's) I went to play nhl again, and boom, same thing as above happened. After reboot it was fine again, played game, went to sleep

3) Yesterday got home from work, booted pc, noticed it was taking long at first black screen, heard fans inside case rpms doing a slow steady wave /-----______/------_______ after a minute or so the thing booted up. After boot everything is normal no weird rpms or other problems

4) This morning booted pc did the same thing as yesterday (3) but wouldn't start (maybe I didnt wait long enough). Powered down everything, waited a minute, powered up again, fans did rpm fluctuation again, then it booted - everything is normal at the moment.

I have an idea of what could be occurring but I'd like to hear what other gurus have to say - thanks

EDIT: Forgot to mention, today when it booted it stopped at a screen that said Overclock Failed 1 to retry, 2 to use defaults... I don't overclock the pc so i chose defaults, and it booted right up - odd

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Oraculaca
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Posted: 7th Jul 2006 16:25
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do you have another psu to try?

No.Art.Here
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 7th Jul 2006 16:28 Edited at: 7th Jul 2006 16:28
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not one with enough wattage for this rig. the stock one came with 300W iirc, but this mobo and video card (pci-express nvidia 6800) needs 450w or more - thats whats in there now 450w, and has been fine for over a year. I am indeed suspecting the psu may be going

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adr
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Posted: 7th Jul 2006 16:35
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I've never seen a situation where the PSU isn't overrated for the equipment inside. You know - having some spare wattage. A quick check would be to unplug the CD/DVD Drives, floppy, perhaps the sound board.

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Van B
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Posted: 7th Jul 2006 16:37
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Temperature dependant hardware issue perhaps.

Take her to bits, remove all her bits, and plug her bits back in again - better to find a silly loose SIMM or cable than waste time or money.

Typically these problems get fixed with a bit of maintenance, clean out your fans while the bits are out, and check the motherboard for burnt out components. Be most careful that the CPU fan never stops working - it takes seconds to fry a processor if your not double-careful (like I know you know what your doing, and so do I, but that won't stop me frying the odd PC when I'm half asleep!).

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 7th Jul 2006 16:45
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It's usually the fan on the CPU slowing because it's full of dust that does that. Just get the dust out of it.

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CattleRustler
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Posted: 7th Jul 2006 16:49
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yeah, thanks - I have been meaning to take her apart and clean out the dust, the problem doesnt seem to be heat related, at least not since the two weird cold boots, and the overclock message.

I think im gonna go thru the bios real quick and see if a setting got whacked somehow. also im go go insert a cd and see if she fails again

thanks for the suggestions, keep em coming

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 7th Jul 2006 17:03
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Could actually be the PSU going...

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CattleRustler
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Posted: 7th Jul 2006 17:06
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HOLY CRAP

I put a cd in and the pc rebooted - then when it came back up it had lost setting/drivers related to mobo/bios!

on mobo ethernet driver gone
scsi/raid controller driver gone
other pci device driver gone (this one is something I manually sorted when I built)

sommins not right, not right at all...


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Jess T
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Posted: 7th Jul 2006 17:10 Edited at: 7th Jul 2006 17:11
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I'd vote for the heat-related problems too... I had much the same issues recently with my PC, and a clean of the fan/heatsink, then lapping the heatsink helped bring the temperature down by about 5-10 degrees, and she runs smoothly since

Go grab SpeedFan, and see what your computer's temp idles at.

Also, have a look-see in your BIOS for a CPU protection that turns the computer off after a certain temperature (I had to disable mine to diagnose the problem as it was peaking above 60 a few minutes after booting, then shuttin down).

As another check, do what adr said, and see if it's not your PSU that's over-heating (a very real problem also!)
If you're game enough, take it out, and take the cover off, and clean all the dust out of that too. You'll be surprised how much will be in there!

Check the fans for any inbuilt chips on the board (like your AGP, etc).

What else...

Oh, if you are worried about the BIOS, find out if yours has an advanced mode (mine is Ctrl+F1 to enable advanced features), and try turning down your clock speed.

Good luck

[EDIT]
Oh, I forgot... Try running a memory test on your RAM - memtest86 is a nifty app.
[/EDIT]

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 7th Jul 2006 17:12 Edited at: 7th Jul 2006 17:16
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Is your Boot MBR OK? Some viruses like to alter it. Then your computer can't find some stuff like drivers etc. You can fix the MBR by using the Windows Recovery Console. It will write a new one over the old one. You run Recovery by booting from the Windows CD. Type FixMBR when you get the C:.

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CattleRustler
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Posted: 7th Jul 2006 17:15
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im almost guaranteeing its not heat related
if I wasnt having COLD boot issues (ie pc off all night - bootup acts bizarre) and I can throw the thing into a tizzy by inserting a cd, otherwise all is ok - thats no heat issue but I appreciate the suggestion. a psu problem would make more sense, or a blorkt dvdrom drive would be best case

I really didnt need this to happen now,
"seriously, you guys, seriously"

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Zappo
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Posted: 7th Jul 2006 17:15
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Worth checking/replacing the CMOS battery. If its gone flakey it could explain the drop outs, loss of CPU speed settings (overclock warning) and improper motherboard detection. Normally you would spot it a mile away because when they go you lose all your settings and your clock is reset, but if its playing up its worth a check.
Also make sure your BIOS chip is in its socket fully. Many years ago I had a batch of motherboards where the chips weren't in far enough and we got all sort of wierd problems. A simple push with the thumb (and an un-nerving crunching sound) and they were sorted.
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 7th Jul 2006 17:17
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lol
good points thanks

clock is correct. imma go punch bios, hopefully i shall return

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APEXnow
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Posted: 7th Jul 2006 18:06
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Cattle, not read whole thread, so if suggestion been made, I appologise. If machine is resetting, two possibilities may contribute. Since game uses the GPU, is the GPU fully supported by your Mobo's BIOS. And you may need to update the flash BIOS image from the Mobo manufacturer.

Also download a memory diagnostic program and do a complete check on the memory modules. i.e. fast read/write testing etc. XP may not pick up problems with memory compatability, and the boot sequence may not pickup any memory checksum faults.

Paul.


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CattleRustler
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Posted: 7th Jul 2006 21:51
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yeah, I have a few things to try, in order of easy to pained arse - just have to wait until later, I am working from home and watching Jessie today. I wouldnt want to start mucking around inside my pc with a 4 month old baby hanging offa me LOL

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CattleRustler
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Posted: 8th Jul 2006 15:59
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ok, didnt get round to tests last night, went to boot pc this morning and now the fooker wont even start!! It sounds like its trying but no banana. I disconnected the dvd drive which I thought might be flaking out but its not the case, still wont boot. I am on my old blasted pc (win2k p3 800 )

anyway, I have the case open and am inspecting for loose or blown parts (which I doubt will be the case) - After that I think I am going to need to just pull the PSU and go get another one, in the hope that that is the issue...

kill me now - plzKthnx

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Jess T
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Posted: 8th Jul 2006 16:33
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How far does it get into the boot?

Does it get to the point where it trys reading the HDD? (ie, it gets at least up to the DMI Pool Data checks?)

If so, then you can still run the memtest86 proggy as it's designed for a bootable cd/dvd. It may be worthwhile before you buy a new PSU.

If you have an old Graphics card you can put in, try that to see if it helps.

There are many many things you can try before having to fork out money

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Darth Vader
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Posted: 8th Jul 2006 16:46
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Quote: "2) Later that night after playing other games (no cd's) I went to play nhl again, and boom, same thing as above happened. After reboot it was fine again, played game, went to sleep"


No CDs heh? I thought NoCD patches are illegal? Am I mistaken?


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Arkheii
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Posted: 8th Jul 2006 16:55
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Something similar happened to me 2-3 months ago. Early on, I'd just get seemingly random resets after using the comp for over 6 hours.

After a few weeks, instead of resetting, it just dies and I'd have to wait a few hours for it to cool down before I can turn it on again.

As time passed by, the "time limit" before the comp just dies again decreased to 4 hours, then under an hour, until the last time it died, the PC actually just froze and the hdd wasn't even making a sound. I feared potential hdd damage after that and decided not to use it again until I got it fixed.

At first I doubted that the PSU was causing it, since I didn't add any power hungry hardware (just an FX5200 and an 80GB hdd, but that was last year).

So I tried it with my brother's 400W power supply and poof, it works! That same weekend, I bought a 460W Enermax PSU and now it's running fine.

A note on PSUs, the tech guy at the PC shop counter told me that although I was buying what was listed as a 430W PSU, the actual product is labeled 460W. He said they intentionally do that because the PSU won't always produce as much power as it's rated to be.

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CattleRustler
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Posted: 8th Jul 2006 17:44
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Quote: "No CDs heh? I thought NoCD patches are illegal? Am I mistaken?"

no! what I meant was I played games that didnt require the cd's like HL2

(thanks Jess but I am thinking memory and other components are all ok)

Ive done some further tests and I a convinced its psu. I disconnected everything non-essential from the psu except for video card and it powered right up, completed P.O.S.T. and stopped at a prompt because no hdd was there. Reset button works as expected, etc. So then I reconnected just main hdd and it booted to win (I am on it now), I ran some diagnostics and a boot sector virus scanner, all come back ok. The psu is still under warranty and all that jazz so I am gonna rip it out and take a trip up the road to the shop (with receipts of course). Most likely they can test the psu output there (460w max) - either way I am coming back with a new one, even if they try and tell me this one is ok. Im bringing a couple heffers and an old bull with me for back up.

plot thickens (dun dun dun!)
bbialw

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CattleRustler
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Posted: 8th Jul 2006 23:08 Edited at: 8th Jul 2006 23:11
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it was the PSU.

my hw place said they couldnt test it, and it wasnt under warranty anymore (pfft), the cows leaned on him a lil but he wouldnt budge - so on the assumption it was indeed the psu I went to another shop, got a rockzor psu, brought it home, installed, boot....


everything is back up as it oughta be, and sweet.

picked up le' this: http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=26500



thanks for the help pee-ops

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 8th Jul 2006 23:49
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And didn't I say it was the PSU ??? eh eh ?

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APEXnow
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Posted: 8th Jul 2006 23:55 Edited at: 8th Jul 2006 23:59
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I was gonna say it's probably the PSU, but I figured the m00tagen would figure this out anyway (wink)

Yours truly

[EDIT] If CR doesn't know me by now.. lol


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CattleRustler
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Posted: 9th Jul 2006 01:14 Edited at: 9th Jul 2006 01:24
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har har.

all rockzorz so far. this psu is nice, only braid/harness coming off the box is the 24/20 pin connector (yes it can be configured for a 20 also). Everything else is an optional...

molex---molex--------------6pin

or a

sata----sata---------------6pin

or a

pci-e----------------------6pin


"6pin" being their formed-molex ports on the inside face of the unit (theres four of them). You can make connects for only what you need power for, so there arent a bazillion connectors and harnesses floating around in the case like with standard psus. You simply plug in the cable type you need to the psu, and run the other end/s to the device/s. all of the wires are wrapped and braided in black, non-static, cylindrical um, things - making for better air flow in the case. the fans are aligned (one in rear and one on inside face) to form a cooling vortex, in other words the psu draws case heat thru itself and out the rear exhaust fan. The kit also comes with sata and molex connectors that can be put anywhere on the wires, and clamped on (to bite thru insulation) to make a custom cable of sorts. Also the unit came stock with a 4 pin ATX 12v connector, so I didnt need to use the molex converter to get the connection straight to the mobo. Tight.

pretty neat unit for its price. 3 yr warranty, 500w

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Jess T
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Posted: 9th Jul 2006 08:41
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Niiice...

And here I was thinking it was the memory

Good to hear you got it sorted, though

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CattleRustler
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Posted: 9th Jul 2006 17:56
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thanks

ive noticed that my main cpu fan runs louder now, but I dunno if its a heat thing or if the mobo settings for q-fan got wiped. I dont remember if I had qfan enabled previously, but its diabled now.

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 9th Jul 2006 18:25
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How much did you overclock?

A 5mhz overclock pushes the heat up 20 degrees on my PC.

<OMG></OMG>
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EddieB
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Posted: 9th Jul 2006 19:05
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Ohh, Snazzy PSU

My new psu has to many wires LOL I have to shove them into my blank slots in the front other wise they fall against the mobo..

But as for the new SATA cables so much more space, a big swap from stupid ribbon cables..
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 9th Jul 2006 19:55 Edited at: 9th Jul 2006 19:58
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Nex, I dont overclock, its set to auto, the pc may overclock here and there by itself if it needs it - who knows what that means.

Eddie, yeah sata setup, all ribbonless is the dogz arse. Theres only one ribbon in htere now from the mobo to the dvd drive, but its flat along the innermost part of the case well out of the way. The only clutter was the old psu braids, but they are all gon now too

I have enabled Q-Fan and it rocks - dunno why I wasnt using it before!! No more cpu fan whine! The previous setting was a basic rpm vs temp setting. The minute you did anything the rpms went up and this fan is a bit annoying above 3000 rpm. The qfan setting allows the fan to adjust with the cpu temp but only from above a certain cpu temp threshold. I have it set at 56c. In windows as long as I am not gaming the cpu temp stays below the threshold, thus - quietness (checks cpu temp...) 50c / fan rpm 2600 ahhhhhh

theres some pretty interesting "modded" psu's out there too, cool black ones with windowed side cutaways, cool blue LED's etc. I gues if youre into case modding that would be pretty cool but my case is a generic p.o.s. its the guts that count

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Oddmind
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Posted: 9th Jul 2006 21:28 Edited at: 9th Jul 2006 21:29
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hey I haven't read the post but I'm thinking its probably your PSU

I mean, either that or the fact that your playing NHL 2006 to begin with XD

so uh... yea check that out...

lolz

*steals thunder*

formerly KrazyJimmy

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