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Geek Culture / Martial Arts Movie Fans?

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Fallout
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Posted: 11th Jul 2006 01:15 Edited at: 11th Jul 2006 01:16
Any of you martial arts movie fans? I've just signed up to a martial arts forum to ask this question, but the fools have an "administrator confirmation" thingy on their sign-up, so I have to wait for some admin to approve me. I should Wing Chun his punk ass.

I need to study some martial arts movements so I can replicate them and animate them. So can someone recommend a martial arts movie with realistic, clear fight scenes? It doesnt matter how rubbish the story or dubbing is, or how rediculously cheesey it is - it's all about the fighting. Wide camera angles rather than close ups are pretty important too, so we're probably talking about geniune chinese cinema rather than rubbish hollywood "edited together to look good" movies. Any ideas or suggestions would be teh coolness.

Tinkergirl
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Posted: 11th Jul 2006 01:23
What about kung fu instruction videos? You can't get clearer than those, I'd imagine (without actually motion capturing someone).

soapyfish
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Posted: 11th Jul 2006 01:45 Edited at: 11th Jul 2006 01:47
The Matrix films have quite a few chop-kicky bits in. Some of which are in super slow-mo which could make copying them easier.

EDIT:: And then there's Tekken and various other beat-em ups.

<º))))><.·´¯`·.Here's to the crazy ones¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>
Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 11th Jul 2006 01:52
Are you going for "real" moves like say in kickboxer or the kind of Supernatural moves like in Hero?

http://www.cafepress.com/blackarrowgames
Check out my great stuff here
Fallout
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Posted: 11th Jul 2006 02:02
Definitely real moves. I would like a few extravigant moves like jumping spinning kicks etc. but they have to be based firmly in reality. I think Tinker Girls suggestion could well be the way to go. I've actually found a 3 and half hour long instructional DVD on Play for all 3 Wing Chun diciplines ...

http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/577574/Wing_Chun_Self_Defence/Product.html

Any thoughts on this one? Like TinkerGirl said, these instructional videos will have to be filmed so that you can see exactly whats going on, else they wouldn't be much good, so this might be ideal. The thing is, are Kung Fu/Wing Chun style diciplines too precise and realistic? I mean, clearly there will be some very effective and lethal attacks, but will that be at the cost of some extravigant kicks and punches? Is there a more flamboyant style I could be looking for?

Hawkeye
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Posted: 11th Jul 2006 02:18
This is the way to go for sheer flamboyancy.


I am but mad north north-west; when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw - Hamlet, Hamlet
MikeS
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Posted: 11th Jul 2006 03:34
If you're talking martial arts, this is the guy you want to be googling for.

Buce Lee Clip 1

Here's another clip that has some decent full body shots and slow motion moves in it, at least in the first minute I watched.

http://oelie.antville.org/stories/1323680/

A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
(Formerly Yellow)
CattleRustler
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Posted: 11th Jul 2006 03:38
im typing... (click click click) but my.. (click click click) words arent matching... (click click click) up.



Science, Mathematics, and Physics do not lie - only people do.
Oddmind
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Posted: 11th Jul 2006 03:50 Edited at: 11th Jul 2006 03:55
Fallout I dont mean to sound conceded here but I am a Shaolin Kung fu instructor and would be delighted to share some movements and even in depth explanations of applications and possibly even pressure point numbers .

Ill put something together, are you looking for a certain style?

I can do anything around

tiger
praying mantis (southern and northern styles)
crane
bird
longfist (origin of karate type style)
drunken immortal
black tiger
white monkey-mantis

bo staff
regular staff
kwan dao
nunchaku
sai
twin tiger hook swords
broadsword
pa kua (ba gua) broadsword (bigger, about the size of a katana)
short cane/stick
sea dragon cane (more like a bo but tis called a cane)
and my favorite, Spear

We also have straight forward techniques that dont take on any certain style in the more obvious outlook, but everything traces back to some sort of style

I also know some yang and soon chen style tai chi.

If your looking for explanation of motion, as well as extravagant arial kicks and such I can do that.

EDIT: just so you know, bruce lee was trained to about what some would call 3rd degree in shaolin, although the belt system was only adopted to disguise shaolin as a japanese art so that the communists would not halt the practice of it in china.

formerly KrazyJimmy

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Freddy 007
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Posted: 11th Jul 2006 04:15
If I remember correctly, ,, Ong bak : The Muay Thai Warrior" has some great fighting scenes, as well as a few different fighting styles. But it would probably be better to watch some of them instruction videos, or talk to OddMind.


Oddmind
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Posted: 11th Jul 2006 05:01
I really cant do much inside the house, and its dark outside so Ill have to tape tommorrow.

I also teach a class tommorrow so I might get some of my students to show off their stuff if you want Most of them are techies like us.

formerly KrazyJimmy

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Fallout
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Posted: 11th Jul 2006 11:11 Edited at: 11th Jul 2006 11:12
Hey, that could be cool matey, you elite ninja you. I can definitely tape myself with head butting, eye gouging, kneeing to the groin, nipples twisting, spitting, taunting and good old strangulation, but any home movies of more advanced martial arts would require someone with training.

Lemme eleborate. In this game the player can fight with guns, bombs, and other weapons both shooting and smacking people with them, plus melee with single and double handed blunt and sharp weapons with one or two of them at once and throw them, plus hand 2 hand in various styles and hopefully also using the environment (pushing off walls etc). Hence the slogan in my sig, you can basically kill your enemy in more ways using more moves than are laid out in the kamasutra. It's not a martial arts game though, so the enemy won't be pulling off any martial arts moves and therefore I don't really need blocks, unless they're combined with a good looking throw. The enemies will generally be humanoids with very basic attacks (lunging, swinging arms) or they'll be shooting back, or they'll have hand 2 hand weapons, or just big f*** off teeth. Imagine the sort of moves you might use on a drunk in the street who has just killed your whole family and that's probably what I'm after.

Weapons is definitely something I'm missing. While I could happily film myself destroying the garden bench with a forest axe, I would most likely end up in police custody, minus a foot. The footage would also look like a crazed lunatic without the flair of someone with training. The bench would be completely destroyed, but at what cost? The cost would indeed be too dear.

If you could get me some footage of some crazy moves, especially with weapons, that would be awesome. I'm looking for powerful moves that would stop someone or something in their tracks. Pressure points wouldn't be too effective as a lot of my enemies will already be dead and therefore not have much use for their nervous system and their tendons will already be shafted. Any move that you think could result in a decapitation, open fracture, two broken legs or dislocated pelvis is definitely in. Anything that includes a degree of restraint to incapacitate the enemy rather than send them to their maker is definitely out.

I think basically I could adapt any good footage to the task in question. While I wasn't planning on having nunchaku, for example (you don't tend to find them just lying around in a car park), I could obviously apply a good move with a broadsword to a metal pole my dude might find. But similarly, it could be cool for my main character to find two metal bars and a chain and manufacter his own nunchaku in the field. So matey, I suppose a selection of key moves from each weapon could be superb. Then I can spend the next 3-4 years painstakingly animating them .

Ok, that's my morning post of waffle done. Yesterday it was a poem, today it's martial arts. Lemme know what you think you could offer matey and would be able to do. Cheers bud.

adr
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Posted: 11th Jul 2006 11:45 Edited at: 11th Jul 2006 11:47
Quote: "In this game the player can fight with guns, bombs, and other weapons both shooting and smacking people with them, plus melee with single and double handed blunt and sharp weapons with one or two of them at once and throw them, plus hand 2 hand in various styles and hopefully also using the environment (pushing off walls etc)."


Is this game available for pre-order? If I were to distill my attitude to games, then it would be "F*** the plot, when do I get to punch someone?"

As for video sources, might a recommend "Two Champions of Death", released in 1978. It was used to create this.

The most annoying part of all this, is that I've witnessed your determination before to complete a project to a high standard. It grinds me that not only will you finish this project, it will be one of the highest calibre projects to come out of DBPro.

(I'd like to nominate myself for the award for "linking to the same music video the most times during a forum's life time")

[center]
But you see, I have the will of the warrior. Therefore, the battle is already over. The winner? Me!
Fallout
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Posted: 11th Jul 2006 12:35
Ya know mate, strangely enough I'd never seen that vid before. I don't know why I'd not seen it, but it was pretty amusing. I'm gonna wait for my Wing Chun vid to come now and see what I can get from that before I splash out on anything else. Oh, and I'm gonna wait on Oddmind chopping up one of his diciples with a naginata and capturing it on camera.

Hopefully the game will live up to those sort of expectations mate, but you never know until it gets going. There's so much to do. I can't believe I'm having to write my own Milkshape animation parser to do what I want to do with the animation system. I've been working on the game for over a month. 1 week of that has been working on a level editor to handle item, light, AI waypoint, doors, entity, cover etc. placement, which I've just finished. I'm gonna be using Dark Physics and we know there'll be loads of issues with that to get it working as I want. There's a long way to go matey, but I'll put you on the beta testers list under the heading "Really wants to punch someone".

Megaton Cat
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Posted: 11th Jul 2006 16:06 Edited at: 11th Jul 2006 16:16
This should be kept simple and sharp. Anything more complex is going to be a pain to animate and would look stupid in-game. (Wacky animal stances/small joint locks/etc good luck getting that to look good in a few frames of animation)

So really, you don't need any fancy-pants Kung Fu. You just need effective strikes (see jujutsu videos on YouTube) and maybe a throw or 2 to bring the wacky meter abit up. (Also check out jujutsu/judo for throws)

That's pretty much it I guess. Just as long as the player doesn't do the same hook animation like 500 000 other games.


New Catfolio.net coming soon!
Oddmind
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Posted: 11th Jul 2006 20:10
hehe yea i kinda see where your coming from now.

I can use weapons you would find or could use as a street weapon.

I guess I can just do "combos" make them short sweet and so they would look cool in game.

formerly KrazyJimmy

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Dazzag
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Posted: 11th Jul 2006 21:04
Used to love them (good old late night movies when you are unemployed).

What was that one with Chow Yun Fat (sp?) where he is an assassin who is like seriously cool (not replacement killers)? Think it ended in a church, and he is trying to help this girl he accidentally blinded when trying to kill someone. Amazingly cool film at the time, and there was this one superb bit where he is walking down a beach and sees this little girl. He looks at her then frowns and swivels around shooting twice into some far off trees. Seconds later two blokes fall dead to the floor. Basically he saw the glints of their sniper rifles in the little girls eyes if I remember rightly. Totally utterly brilliant. C'mon someone, have no idea of the film name, but always wanted to get it on DVD.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Megaton Cat
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Posted: 11th Jul 2006 21:06
Quote: "Basically he saw the glints of their sniper rifles in the little girls eyes if I remember rightly. Totally utterly brilliant."


Haha, that is so badass on so many levels.


New Catfolio.net coming soon!
Dazzag
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Posted: 11th Jul 2006 21:15
Yeah, I know. Totally stupid in reality, but amazingly brilliantly cool from all angles. Great scene. Annoyingly Replacement Killers didn't reach it's great levels, although it's practically the same character in english. Plus it had that seriously nice bint in it.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Fallout
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Posted: 11th Jul 2006 21:21 Edited at: 11th Jul 2006 21:22
It's not the one you're thinking of Dazzag but Hard Boiled is Chow Yun Fat's best action movie and in my opinion one of the greatest action movies ever made. There's one scene of shooting that doesn't cut for about 1 whole minute as they go through the hospitaql. Just constant action, perfectly performed from one camera in one take, with rediculous amounts of special effects.

Check this (unfortunately dubbed in another language) for the second half of that scene (it goes on for about 1 minute before this without cutting away before they get into the elevator):
Hospital fight scene

Here's the official trailer.
Hard Boiled Trailer

Bloody genius!

Dazzag
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Posted: 11th Jul 2006 21:26
Quote: "Hard Boiled is Chow Yun Fat's best action movie "
Yeah, that is an awesome movie. But I still prefer the "insert name here" assassin film as it was just *so* cool. The guy was practically made of ice as like 100 blokes (something like that; there was bodies everywhere) attack him (and this cop) at the end of the film in a church.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Fallout
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Posted: 11th Jul 2006 21:34
I think you're thinking of the originally titled "The Killer".

Phaelax
DBPro Master
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Posted: 11th Jul 2006 21:38
70's jackie chan movies have a lot of traditional styles in it, like snake crane and other animal forms. My friends and I used to watch kung fu movies every friday night during highschool and years after that. I'm also considering studying kung fu at a shaolin academy in the mountains of Yentai China next year. After a few months, they'll teach praying mantis and possibly drunken boxing.

"Using Unix is the computing equivalent of listening only to music by David Cassidy" - Rob Pike
Oddmind
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Posted: 11th Jul 2006 21:39 Edited at: 11th Jul 2006 21:40
ok bud heres the first batch.

theyre doing railroad work in the background i dont live next to blacksmiths.

If you have any requests just ask. I hope this is good enough : Im all sweaty now.

oh and my MSN is

krazyjimmy(at)gmail(dot)com

aim xoddmindx (cliche i know, i love every minute of it)

formerly KrazyJimmy

Prayers for rain...

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Fallout
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Posted: 11th Jul 2006 22:00
Nice one son! Those could definitely come in handy. I especially like the sword ones and the sound of it is awesome too. I know you've got some recording kit in your family, so I might have to come back to you later and ask you record a few of those sounds in high quality if thats ok (cane hitting ground, sword shiiiiings, small child screaming in pain etc). I love the elegance of the spear aswell with all the attacks aiming to stab the person in the face. How subtle. Guess where I'm going with this? That's it! In the EYE! Ok, you did go for some lower body action, but obviously the eyes were the main target.

<-- Oddmind's sparring partner.

Nice one matey! Credits for you in the game when it's done. I'm sure I'll definitely be able to use those for reference. Quality.

Oddmind
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Posted: 11th Jul 2006 22:34
haha no problem man.

I rofled at your Kamasutra reference.

formerly KrazyJimmy

Prayers for rain...
Megaton Cat
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Posted: 11th Jul 2006 22:52
The sword one was cool yeah.

Hooks I'm thinking abit too hard to animate.
Good stuff odd one.


New Catfolio.net coming soon!
Oddmind
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Posted: 11th Jul 2006 23:03
I am psycho mantis. The worlds greatest practitioner of telepathy in the world!

Now that thats over, thanks

the hooks are a bit crazy, though fun to do.

formerly KrazyJimmy

Prayers for rain...
Dazzag
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Posted: 12th Jul 2006 10:36
Quote: "I think you're thinking of the originally titled "The Killer". "
Yeah, that sounds right. Will have to get the DVD now.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Fallout
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Posted: 13th Jul 2006 15:16
I got my self defence vid from Play. It's actually damn good. The moves are all very precise as I expected, so I dont know how many I can study, but either way it's a good buy.

Just thought I'd share this classic moment. Master Wong explains the need for good body protection equipment to allow you to use the moves for real on your partner so that you can apply them properly in real life. If you don't practice them at full force, you won't have balance and this will happen.

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