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Geek Culture / [LOCKED] Middle East Turmoil

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Oneka
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Posted: 16th Jul 2006 04:55 Edited at: 16th Jul 2006 04:56
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Quote: "
Jeku:
Doesn't matter--- the pic was removed. If you want to bring the thread down with crap, be prepared for a ban.
"


How was I trying to bring the thread down?

Just a random pic when you type in "Palestinian peace" in google images on page 2

I dont know what it says, but I thought it was funny.....with a muslim I take it on the cross

I dont know what it means to you, but I dont know what it means to me....

NO HARM DONE ON PURPOSE!




EDIT: Maybe we can meet one day :o, TRENCH COAT!


Making better games everday!
Oh yeah and just so you know its Oh-nek-a not One-ka!
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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 16th Jul 2006 05:22
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Does he think he's funny? Honestly, can anyone stay on topic these days?
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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 16th Jul 2006 05:27
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Oneka = Source of Anti-Humour.


New Catfolio.net coming soon!
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alex 1337
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Posted: 16th Jul 2006 05:34 Edited at: 16th Jul 2006 05:43
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Well, I just got back here in America and it feels much better . Wow Jeku, I admire your sister's husband, he must be pretty brave.

Update---Some people asked how I got out because the airport was closed, but the thing is is that the Beirut airport was closed in Lebanon but not in Israel.

Man, I really wish there would be peace there.
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x1b
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Posted: 16th Jul 2006 05:36 Edited at: 16th Jul 2006 06:51
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Quote: "These muslim extremist have taken the situation to far by taking hostage 2 Israeli soldiers"


They arent Muslim anymore than the Knights Templar where Christians or Timothy McVeigh or the KKK for that matter. Its fools with their own agenga hiding behind a religion.

To even call them "Muslim Extremist" is to support their efforts. There is no "extreme" in Islam,period.

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alex 1337
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Posted: 16th Jul 2006 05:37
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@x1b--Thats what everyone calls them, I guess you are right though.
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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 16th Jul 2006 05:52
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A pretty solid and thorough statment.


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Fallout
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Posted: 16th Jul 2006 13:05 Edited at: 16th Jul 2006 13:06
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I would argue they are muslim extremists. The guys who blew themselves up on the underground over here were strong family/business men and muslims. They felt the muslim world was becoming more and more oppressed by our foriegn policy and wanted to fight back. They allowed themselves to become brainwashed by the powerful propaganda of these foriegn nuttjobs. They blew themselves up on the underground. They honestly believed they were doing it for religion. There's no way somebody would kill themselves without believing there is some afterlife waiting to great them as a martyr.

Obviously this is a different scenario. These rebels aren't suicide bombers and I reckon they are fighting under the false veil of religion, but they're still going to be muslims and believers. In my opinion is these relgious texts (Bible, Koran etc.) can be interpreted however you like. It might be a false interpretation, but they're so filled with subtle contradictions and statements that taken in a metaphorical sense can mean practically anything, that an extremist nuttjob can read whatever he wants from them. They can interpret the Koran equivilent of "Thou shalt not kill", apply it only to the innocent and take other paragraphs that suggest killing is acceptable in X,Y,Z form. Then they can take impressionable, angry muslims and teach them their interpretation of the Koran. And look ... it must be right because it's written here here and here. For example, Jihad really implies the inner struggle or war to better yourself and stay true to Islam (as I understand it). Where as people have decided to iterpret its slightly vague metaphorical basis as a war or struggle in the use of arms against invaders or infidels or christians or the west. Something that isn't laid out in absolute clarity interpreted to suit someones agenda and most likely strongly believed aswell.

Religion in its true and pure form is great, but it's so easy for someone who really wants to believe something to twist its words and teaching into what might appear to be a justified weapon.

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x1b
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Posted: 16th Jul 2006 13:26 Edited at: 16th Jul 2006 13:37
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Quote: "I would argue they are muslim extremists"


By calling them Muslim anything,you support them.

Quote: "They allowed themselves to become brainwashed by the powerful propaganda of these foriegn nuttjobs."


Ash-Hadu Allaa Elaaha Ellaa Allah. I bear witness that there is no other god beside God.

Any man that would follow words outside of Qu'Ran (Ah-hadeeth), anyman that would follow another mans words over Allahs,is not and never was Muslim. It is not for a Muslim to take a life or a person against his own will,but Allah's. Stand and defend Islam and your self and family no further than you must.


Fallout. I am Muslim.


Mega: you where right. this is the one thread I need to ignore. bye.

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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 16th Jul 2006 13:38 Edited at: 16th Jul 2006 13:41
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Quote: "but I thought it was funny.....with a muslim I take it on the cross"


offended.

i'd like to know what islam has to do with anything here. this is a territorial dispute between arabs and jewish settlers, just because the majority of the population are muslim, everyone makes it out to be muslim extremists. people dont realise there are also christians and athiests on both sides also involved in the fighting.

sure maybe the words "allahu wakbar" (sp?) can be heard, but doesnt george bush keep on going on about how he's some sort of saviour to iraq following god's orders? no one accuses him of being an extremist christian do they?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1586978,00.html

imo its our media blowing the whole religeous side way out of proportion to help justify sending troops into other muslim countries, even though its our presence there thats causing the unrest. the cycle goes on...

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 16th Jul 2006 14:36
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Ugh, you guys are gonna get this one locked up like a convict serving 9 life sentences.

I agree with x1b. Muslim extrimists are not Muslim, and the real Muslims overseas have disassociated themselves from the extremists on several occasions.

What does it mean to be "of" a particular religion? Sure, you can slap the religious title on yourself like many corrupted Chrisitan popes did in the past, when if the actual "believing" aspect is not there, thw whole thing sorta falls apart.

@x1b: Don't even bother. If you cannot convince people face-to-face when talking about an issue like this, the odds of it happening on an internet forum where everyone is sitting behind their monitors is very slim.


New Catfolio.net coming soon!
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Fallout
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Posted: 16th Jul 2006 14:42 Edited at: 16th Jul 2006 14:45
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Obviously I don't want to try and tell you I know more about Islam than you do, but ...

Quote: "
anyman that would follow another mans words over Allahs,is not and never was Muslim
"


But Allah doesn't have a chat with all his Muslim followers, does he? It is real people that pass on these teachings or help people follow Islam. It's easy for a corrupted scholar or someone who claims to be a scholar to twist it to their own ends. And people are so naive and stupid. Maybe you're implying that a true Muslim could not be corrupted. Then obviously that's when a non-believe like myself and a believer like yourself cannot agree, as I would argue anyone who is innocent can be corrupted, such is the nature of people.

As for Israel and Palestine - I don't know enough to comment. I wouldnt like to profess to know anything about the situation there until I'd spent weeks reading up on it. It's far too complicated. However, with the local issue with extremism, I feel I understand it to an extent. I also agree with their cause, just not their methods. The US and UK foriegn policy absolutely sickens me. I'm ashamed that the UK government has joined with the US government (notice I don't say people - I think the US government and its people are two separate entities) in some of their deceitful quests. Unfortunately there isn't enough power and education for western Muslims to make any significant change using our political system.

Uggh. I sense a locky. I just have strong views on this that I never discuss.

Edit: I'm happy to conceed that these people who commit these acts are not Muslims, but I think they themselves truly believe they are, and a lot of other Muslims don't see fault in what they do. There was a recent poll and something like 1 in 6 Muslims in the UK thought the 7/7 Underground bombers were martyrs. Clearly what makes someone a Muslim isn't well taught over here.

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x1b
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Posted: 16th Jul 2006 16:09 Edited at: 16th Jul 2006 16:16
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Quote: "I'm happy to conceed that these people who commit these acts are not Muslims, but I think they themselves truly believe they are"


Appreciated. Sincerely.

Quote: "Clearly what makes someone a Muslim isn't well taught over here"


That is their own fault. Islam has no teacher but Allah. In a Mosque is no leader, just an Imam. A Muslim that leads the prayer only by praying. No lecture given. It is quoted in Qu'Ran,that we are all responsible to research absolutely everything we learn and do,with no exceptions. This includes going past just listening to one humans view of Islam even if he is a Muslim in good standing.

Mistakes are made,we are "Muslim" not "super human" and we do have individual ways. Some of our women wear a Hajjib,and their sister chooses not to. Neither are in the wrong. Personally? I often swear like a trucker because my personal opinion is Allah speaks no language and a humans opinion of "F*CK!!" is only as bad as the intent behind it. Something like "F*CK!" can be as bad as "PINK ELEPHANT!" if the intent is ill intended. In Salat (prayer) if we make a mistake,it is not serious as the intent was there and is good. Just try to pay more mind to your salat next time. Quoted in Qu'Ran "Allah wishes to burden nobody"

Anyway, nobody wants an Islam lecture. I was just happy to read your Conceed. Thank you Fallout.

EDIT
Oh, and it is "Allahu Akbar" does sound like a W though doesnt it =/

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Fallout
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Posted: 16th Jul 2006 16:36 Edited at: 16th Jul 2006 16:44
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Yeah, sorry if I offended you. It's hard to say what you mean and get the message across without any misunderstanding. I actually came back to this thread to edit out all my messages to avoid upsetting anyone else, but seeing as we seem to have a degree of understanding I will leave them.

As someone who isn't particularly spiritual, it didn't really occur to me that someone who commits murder can't be a Muslim. To someone like myself, a Muslim or Christian is someone who follows a faith. This is why I could still call a murderer a Muslim if he follows that faith. To someone like yourself it means much more and obviously someone who murders cannot be a true Muslim. When you originally said ...

Quote: "By calling them Muslim anything,you support them."


In response to my ...

Quote: "I would argue they are muslim extremists"


I thought you were just being provokative. Now I understand that what we considered "Muslim" was different, so I can see how my statement would offend you. I think from now on I will be careful and use the term "true Muslim" to clearly differentiate between someone who is a true Muslim and someone who follows Islam and is clearly misguided (and therefore not a Muslim).

Edit: Thanks. I think you've helped deepen my understanding a little.

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x1b
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Posted: 16th Jul 2006 17:02 Edited at: 16th Jul 2006 17:03
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Quote: "Uggh. I sense a locky. I just have strong views on this that I never discuss
"


Kind of hope they dont. I much agree,politics and religion are oft best omitted from any forum. But this discussion is a small effort to differntiate Terrorists from Islam and a small effort to remove Terrorsts attempt to use Islam as a false support for their actions. If they can successfully convince the world that their actions are from/for god then they get a guise of looking like they are a hundred million strong and globally approved. Soon as the world see's that they are a garage band of monkeys with bombs strapped to their asses and learnt to scream "Allahu Akbar" the sooner it will become easier to work with the Muslim communitys to catch them and turn over to legal authorities.

We already have local police and RCMP working directly with our Imams here in Montreal AND we had a Muslim volunteer him self to work direct with RCMP as a spy which resulted in catching one small pack of bomb strapped monkeys.

Sorry Mods, Mr Richard Davey, I know ive already taken this a little too far. I'll get off my soapbox now. But maybe consider letting this one thread live.

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UnderLord
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Posted: 16th Jul 2006 17:07
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Groof i like strike at karkand too good map....good map...

Host your site for free www.darkuniverse.net

E-mail UnderLord @ UnderLord AT darkuniverse DOT net
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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 16th Jul 2006 17:39 Edited at: 16th Jul 2006 17:40
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heh, its the best forum sig image they offered, the other images didnt allow the writing to be read clearly. favourite map is dalian plant just because i'm so much of a chopper whore, though karkand does make good for infantry only.

anyway back to the subject.

i see the 7/7 thing coming up a lot recently in this thread. what really gets me again is how much the media overlows the whole islam thing. the video of the suicide bomber giving his suicide note... not once does he mention virgins or anything like that, what he does mention is violence around the middle east caused by the western presence there.

the attacks show us what its like to live in fear of being bombed, the same thing the people in the streets of bagdad put up with every day, yet we call them the terrorists. we disreagard this fact, and only care about the people killed on our own soil. so much hypocrasy.

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x1b
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Posted: 16th Jul 2006 18:00 Edited at: 16th Jul 2006 18:20
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Quote: "not once does he mention virgins or anything like that"


Truth behind the virgins thing is that its not true. To this day we still arent sure what was being said. One guestimation is the pack of virigins stuff, one is a pack of white grapes and it goes on. We arent sure if that part was Arabic, Armaic, some guess it even to be Hebrew. Or Allah has one wicked sense of humour and is laughing at us trying to figure this one out.

I remember one documentary trying to support that one of the terrorists was wearing a Gold Ring in a video and Muslims dont wear gold! Thus they arent Muslim! ...well..thanks guys, the intention is there. But,ya..we wear gold..silver..platnium..plastic and anything thats probably current day trend as long as it isnt slutty. Personally,I wear 1 silver chair, a silver Bulova watch, silver braclet, 2 silver rings, and...are you ready..a silver loop earring! OMG I MUST BE GAY!

Just cant trust media.

You'll see Muslim with some serious thickass beards. Their wives in their Hajjibs probably said "if im going to wear this thing and sweat in the heat,wrapped in it to show my devotion to Allah, your ass grows a serious heat absorbing beard" And some wear the big ass beards and hajjib due to the man made lies from the Ah-hadeeth.

Ive watched Muslim woman put their men in their place. No, they arent so submissive. Loyal,yes,honest,yes,weak and trembling?,not a chance. And if for anyreason they are wearing their hajjib and look intimidated by their men,then that man isnt Muslim. Fear Allah,not man.

Just cant trust media.

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 16th Jul 2006 18:17
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Quote: "I dont know what it says, but I thought it was funny.....with a muslim I take it on the cross "

Wow Oneka, why would you say something like that? You should get BANNED for putting some crap like that on the forum. Seriously, banned forever. I'm surprised people aren't flipping out more about that comment. Why exactly would it be funny to see a Muslim on a cross? Wow...

Well, a regular thread that's actually about something, hijacked by ignorance.


Come see the WIP!
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s0l1dsnak3123
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Posted: 16th Jul 2006 18:24
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nicely said cash

Click... you know you want to
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x1b
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Posted: 16th Jul 2006 18:27
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Quote: "Wow Oneka, why would you say something like that?"


Though im unsure as to Onekas intent on that comment. It is beleived that Abraham(peace be upon him) was the first Muslim and passed down. Thus Jesus((Isa)(peace be upon him) was Muslim. So,the most it got from me was me rolling my eyes and reading on.

Not sure what you where thinking,Oneka. But,this is TGC forum not Islam forum,so im in no place to dispute your personal feelings on Islam and I wont. I am equally entitled to my own opinion and do share them.

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CattleRustler
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Posted: 16th Jul 2006 18:37
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every religion has its extremists.

anyway, vote here for Lock

Science, Mathematics, and Physics do not lie - only people do.
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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 16th Jul 2006 18:40 Edited at: 16th Jul 2006 18:40
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indeed, i was offended by onekas comment, but i'm used to it, i've been told far worse insults.

the hijjab is also a misconception about islam. what you say is very true, women in islam probably have more freedom than men do. women don't wear hijjabs cos the men force them to at all. if my stepdad told my mum to take hers off, she'd refuse. it's about protection of the soul in the afterlife, wearing the hijjab because it is god's will. not wearing a hijjab because it is the mans will, or for protection of the body in the current life.

edit: i vote a no-lock. despite pictures posted, i find this an insightful thread.

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CattleRustler
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Posted: 16th Jul 2006 18:48 Edited at: 16th Jul 2006 18:50
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its clearly against AUP

Quote: "Do not post messages debating or discussing any form of religious belief or anything to do with religion (including anti-religious opinions) at all"


sorry.

Science, Mathematics, and Physics do not lie - only people do.
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