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Geek Culture / Game dev Jerks!

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Darth Vader
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Posted: 21st Jul 2006 13:25
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Every time I log onto to game dev chat I get told that Dark Basic is crap! Its not really true I know Dark Basic doesn't really have a chance agaisnt C++ but to say it sucks!
C'mon!


I have the longest Biog under my profile button!

"You don't know the power of Dark Basic Pro!"

-Darth Vader-
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Oolite
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Posted: 21st Jul 2006 13:39
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erm...ok then.
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Darth Vader
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Posted: 21st Jul 2006 13:42
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Sorry I had to release my frustration!
I am okay now!


I have the longest Biog under my profile button!

"You don't know the power of Dark Basic Pro!"

-Darth Vader-
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Saikoro
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Posted: 21st Jul 2006 13:46
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Give me an L!
Give me an O!
Give me a CKY CHU!


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Darth Vader
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Posted: 21st Jul 2006 13:54
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Huh?


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"You don't know the power of Dark Basic Pro!"

-Darth Vader-
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Fallout
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Posted: 21st Jul 2006 14:03
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Find them and torture their families to death, and leave them hanging over a lava pit by their eyelids.

It's the only known way to solve that particular problem.

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X Trade
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Posted: 21st Jul 2006 14:11
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no just tie them up and force them to watch the best application made in dark basic ever.. not that i am suggesting that it is easy to judge.. no suggestions made, thats up to someone else to decide.

www.AoFP.co.uk
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Van B
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Posted: 21st Jul 2006 15:09
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Well it could only be VSD Tracker ...


Really, ask those C++ guys to show you their work, then show them your work - I guarantee, positively that you won't get a single screenshot that looks anything like a decent project.

C++ is something that 'experts' spend years working in, and often produce nothing, DBPro is something that normal people can use to make games - usually within a few months. It takes a helluva lot of talent to do good work with C++, and I reckon all these C++ wanabees your encountering could do well to switch.

DO NOT be afraid to mock all those cruddy C++ RPG's that look like a cat vomitted them into existance, we use an enjoyable language and produce more work and better work, basically they should realise that good game ideas should never be restricted because of programming knowledge.

It is worth stating, that a lot of C++ users are actually migrated Blitzers, 3 years ago they would have been bitchin about Blitzmax and how it was gonna own DBPro, how it would run on anything, and have no 3D engine... That didn't really pan out how they expected but the anti-DB attitude remains.

DBPro does well enough in multi-language competitions (like Retro Remakes) to hold it's head up among those twits.

Aegrescit medendo
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Darth Vader
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Posted: 21st Jul 2006 15:17
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Van B you said it all!
Thanks Man!


I have the longest Biog under my profile button!

"You don't know the power of Dark Basic Pro!"

-Darth Vader-
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Phaelax
DBPro Master
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Posted: 21st Jul 2006 15:52
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whenever i ask for help on GD i try not to mention DB so that I can actually get an answer.

"Using Unix is the computing equivalent of listening only to music by David Cassidy" - Rob Pike
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hyrichter
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Posted: 21st Jul 2006 16:32
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I think the people who just say DB is crap and C++ is t3h uber are mostly n00bs who haven't really got anything worth showing to show off. Most decent C++ programmers realize that DB(P) is very useful and fun for quick prototyping and for some serious game making and hobbyist work. I think Van B said it very well.

About a week ago, I received an email from the lead level designer of http://www.crytek.com (the guys that make Farcry) thanking me for my DBP IDE. Hmmm, what does that tell you.

Good performance is better than a good excuse.
CodeSurge -- DBP Editor for serious programmers.
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 21st Jul 2006 16:39
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My best friend growing up is a C++ nut. He's genetically biased against DBP. I really tried to get him into DBP, because together we'd really make some magic happen. We have the exact same vision for an RPG. He just couldn't do it. He found DBP too limiting, and Basic too clumsy.

The bottom line is that he has nothing to show for his C++ loyalty, and I do. I mean, sure, C++ can potentially make better games, but for the average person it's just not possible. I'll accept that DBP is slower, because making a game that's slower is better than making no game at all.


Come see the WIP!
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Zappo
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Posted: 21st Jul 2006 16:44
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Its all down to perception. Its the same thing with Web design, which I guess I am guilty of myself. Personally I think everyone should learn how to write HTML in notepad first so they really know how it works before moving on to a WYSIWYG editor. That way they benefit from knowing whats going on under the hood.

On the other hand I have the utmost respect for DreamWeaver (and use it myself professionally) because it provides a nice frontend to Web page design but lets you get to the nuts and bolts and hard code stuff if you want to. In that way its a bit like Dark Basic in that there is a nice easy method for creating stuff but if you wanted to you can get right into the guts of game programming by writing DLLs and expanding it.
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adr
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Posted: 21st Jul 2006 17:29 Edited at: 21st Jul 2006 17:31
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OK, this is gonna sound like a troll, but I'm gonna go for it anyway. These are my honest opinions, and I'm pretty damn sure I'm not alone.

I've gotta agree with the C++ band here, but you need to be careful about what you're debating here - languages and engines are two very separate entities. C++ vs DBPro as a language? You can't be seriously defending DBPro ...

I can cope with bugs in the 3D engine - "set camera to image" is probably doing a lot of work for just one command, so I figure bugs in the 3D engine can be forgiven. For simplicity of engine, DBPro wins; You can get the 3D engine fired up in a fraction of the time. But when you get compiler errors because you put a comment in the wrong place, I don't think that's a particularly good advert for the language itself.

Just because it's possible to make a game in DBPro, doesn't stop it from being crap. I defy anyone to maintain that DBPro is a well structured language, feature rich and bug free. The language feels stunted. It feels like it's been cut off just at the wrong time - just as it was about to get interesting.... U6 has been the flagship bug-busting patch, boasted as TGC's crowning moment. I have to ask, how long has DBPro been in the market? And we're still tweaking for/next constructs ?

Now, before you all come down on me with your WTFs and s, reread what I've said. As a language bolted onto an engine, you can't lose. But, looking at the raw nuts and bolts, it's a bit flakey. Don't get me wrong here, I'll still be firing up DBPro this weekend.

Quote: "I mean, sure, C++ can potentially make better games, but for the average person it's just not possible. "


I don't see this as the case. C++ can be as simple as you like. Granted, the syntax is a little funny, and realistically, you need a decent string/array library in order to keep your sanity. But C++ is not inherantly complicated. If you want to just work with variables and functions, you can. If you want to work with classes, they're entirely optional.

Admittedly, it would take a bit longer to get a sphere on a matrix in C++, but you'd have a player class in that same amount of time, and if you ignore any complexities that the engine introduces, the code solving the problem domain will map to the conceptual problems a *lot* more closely than any DBPro implementation.

[center]
But you see, I have the will of the warrior. Therefore, the battle is already over. The winner? Me!
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Nemo
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Posted: 21st Jul 2006 17:33
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Are we talking about gamedev.net here because I have to say I have got great help from there in the past. I even went as far as stating that I am using dbpro and posting code. Maybe my redemption was in understanding the maths to some degree. I only use the maths and physics board though and I have always found uber nerds to be a friendly lot.
I think hyrichter is probably right, a good experienced programmer will realise the benefits of dbpro. After all I use c++ in work along with a great many other languages but I wouldn’t dream of trying to make a game with it on my own, it would take until the end of time.

In the future we will not spank the monkey, the monkey will spank us.
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UnderLord
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Posted: 21st Jul 2006 17:37
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Haha, years ago i went from beyond to C++, got no where with eaither but DBP (even though I hardly use it) I have made some nice effects, I bought DBP to make games with, sadly enough I get ditracted easily my particle generator makes a better screen saver, then a generator...but I WILL fix that someday.

The bottom line is C++ fan boys will be fanboys you can't change a mac fan boy or a microsoft fan boys mind, don't try to change a C++ fan boys mind. You'll fail horribly, but on the upside you'll always make more then a C++ fanboy

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TKF15H
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Posted: 21st Jul 2006 18:16
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Quote: "The bottom line is C++ fan boys will be fanboys you can't change a mac fan boy or a microsoft fan boys mind, don't try to change a C++ fan boys mind. You'll fail horribly, but on the upside you'll always make more then a C++ fanboy"

Spoken like a true DBP fanboy.

Quote: "C++ can potentially make better games, but for the average person it's just not possible"

Not true at all. It looks like there's a little confusion over the subject here: C++ as a language is way better than DBP. Plain and simple. Now you can go and say you get results faster, but that's up to the engine, and DBP has a pretty nice one. If you're any good with C++, download MSVC and an interface library and you get the best of both worlds.

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Van B
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Posted: 21st Jul 2006 18:47
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Fair points.

But - I'm looking at their attitude as it is - an attitude from a indi community that instinctively negative. Do we make comments about C++ beyond that it's a lot more complex?, usually not - they simply won't be told, we can be told.
Most of the developments in DBPro spawn from clever indi C++ developers making plugins, adapting systems designed for C++, and extending the functionality of DBPro through alternative approaches to stuff. We're only getting the benefits that C++ developers get, lots of good codes to play with, but with mostly no complex learning involved.

I don't post on Game-Dev, but it's certainly a great source for code techniques - C++ is not rocket science when you're just interested in the code logic, complex math is complex regardless of what language it's in; there's a lot of good examples over there that any developer can learn from.

I certainly hold the opinion that a solo C++ coder vs a solo DBPro coder is an unrealistic comparison, because C++ coders have to do so much more.

As I said though, it's the attitude about DB that annoys, it's like they have no idea how modern game design works. Professionals seem to appreciate the development ease and speed of DBPro, I just don't see why they can't - like they think the pro's all sit and worry about entire projects.

Really, as far as engines are concearned, a tiny fraction of professional game coders actually write engines - most of them would deal with script systems and logic. Nobody wants to write engines, everyone wants to write games - and practically everyone is adapting to someone elses methods, so snobery like that in indi development is kinda 2-faced IMO.

20 years ago professional coders would scoff at C++, Assembly was the only way, the industry is always changing - people know C++ is the best possible option for now. If DBPro was completely bug free, perfectly compatible, and as fast as C++ then syntax would not be an issue for anyone. Who knows what languages and platforms there will be for us all to scoff at in 20 years .

Aegrescit medendo
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 21st Jul 2006 20:09 Edited at: 21st Jul 2006 20:10
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in less than a few weeks (guess-timate) you will have C# and VB.NET to choose from as an option for a development platform, but leveraged against "DBP" by way of the DGDK.NET. I know the discussion was DBP vs C++, but I contend there is a huge void in the middle ground that this new product aims to fill.

do with this info what you will.

Science, Mathematics, and Physics do not lie - only people do.
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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 21st Jul 2006 20:40
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DBPro was written in C++ wasn't it? And doesn't it also have C++ .dll support of some sort? It may have just been in a dream I was having one night... lol.
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 21st Jul 2006 21:30
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Like I said earlier, I'm glad that I'm using DBP. I doubt I'd be making anything good without it.

However, when I show people my work, after their initial shock and awe, they always ask me what I used to make it. Then I get uneasy and fidget a bit and hope that a masked gunman kicks down the door so I can wrestle with him. Then *cough*darkbasic*cough*

I know what I'm doing with it, but no matter what, even for people that have never heard of it, there is an immediate perception that is simply inescapable. The name sounds very gamey, and comes across as a toy. I feel like I've told them I'm using Realm Crafter to make my game.

DarkBasic needs a secret boring code name or something.


Come see the WIP!
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Flindiana Jones
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Posted: 21st Jul 2006 22:21
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How about DB++?

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Jeku
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Posted: 21st Jul 2006 22:32 Edited at: 21st Jul 2006 22:33
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I'd have to agree as well with the C++ dudes. As a language C++ is far superior.

And I'll disagree with the fact that C++ guys have to do a lot more work to get the same result. This is not true, as any decent C++ game coder should have libraries he's built up over time to achieve similar things as DBP. For example I built a class in C++ that initializes Direct3D in a window with a set height, width, and colour depth. I can call that up with just one or two lines, just as easily as you could with DBP.

Don't get your eggs out yet, though. I still love DBP and PB. I use them all the time for prototyping a game idea. Plus, it feels more like a hobby when I'm using a BASIC variant language. For example WordTris was done with DBP as a test, and then I used the same logic when doing WordTrix 2.0 with C++/Direct3D, because I was getting good feedback.


"I understand creative people. After all, I worked with towel designers." - Ray Kassar, former head of Atari
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 21st Jul 2006 23:23
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The problem is there is a lot of bad stuff in DBPro, with regards to how the programmer needs to lay things out : Cant have arrays in types, cant return types, cant get address of variables or functions, for example, so have to use globals and other things, which makes coding very messy.

With C its pretty hard not to write elegant and efficient code.

Come to the last Unofficial DBPro Convention (http://convention.logicstudios.net/)
Dont do anything I wouldn't do. But if you do, take pictures.
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Matt Rock
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2006 00:03
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I've always had a problem with Game Dev's forums. Everyone on there is snooty and mean. For example, I posted a thread about the text adventure contest we're holding and they spent the entire length of the thread bashing the concept and bashing text adventures. TGC is a better community, no questions asked. GDnet is great for their non-forum resources, but otherwise they're a bunch of tools


"In an interstellar burst, I'm back to save the universe"
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UnderLord
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2006 01:53
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Quote: "Spoken like a true DBP fanboy."


Well im neither a fan boy of C++ or DBP I just so happen to use DBP because of its short learning curve and the fact of its ease of use compaired to C++, I was also merely stating what I precieve in my mind as a fact about C++ fan boys...

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2006 02:16
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I can't quite remember the details, but I do remembering also thinking the game dev guys were stuck up snot balls.


New Catfolio.net coming soon!
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BluEarth Software
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2006 02:21
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Yeah, I was on another forum, and all these people were asking for help making games in VB.net , at the end of everyone of them I said:
Quote: "http://www.thegamecreators.com/ -they specificly built programming languages just for Game Development.There are several other things that they make, like the 3D Gamemaker and FPS Creator, all of which are drag and drop game builders. If you want the programming interface, for VisualBasic -> DarkBASIC DarkBASIC Pro(many a famous games made with this) PlayBASIC OmegaBASIC
C++ -> Dark Game SDK

There are demos for all there products, and you can also get software to make media for your games, also, there are forums there, and everybody is happy to help you! - and they are clean "


Then all these people say it's bad and stuff, and then I said, have you tried DB? -That useally ends that entire post !


http://www.turnofftheinternet.com/
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Matt Rock
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2006 03:01
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DarkBASIC is a great language and it's hard to say it isn't without real experience.

What you need to make games in C or C derivatives
* Huge programming teams of 8-20 people
* Tons of money
* A year and sometimes longer

What you need to make games of equal quality using DBP
* 1-5 programmers depending on the size of the game
* Less than $1,000
* A few months to a year unless your project is IMMENSE or you're under-staffed (or both)

I think they're just jealous We can do more with DBP in a month than they can with C in a year How many of them have actually released games? I dunno, I haven't seen many helpful threads on there, they all just bash each other constantly. Not a very good community and doesn't hold a candle to our beloved TGC Now THAT was spoken like a true TGC Fanboy!


"In an interstellar burst, I'm back to save the universe"
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Preston C
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2006 03:19 Edited at: 22nd Jul 2006 03:21
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I'll have to agree with Jeku on this one, programming in C++ doesn't always require much more work, and having some previously coded libraries helps a lot. Though, developing these libraries can be a hassle.

Sometimes I wish Microsoft would give a few better examples on how to achieve certain things with the DirectX SDK.

Though, I admit, trying to manually animate the Alienware Competition Alien through trial and error and seeing him utterly explode was quite entertaining when I was working on a skeleton class last month.

AMD64 X2 3800+ | 1 GB Ram | NVIDIA GeForce 6800 128MB
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Jeku
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2006 03:36 Edited at: 22nd Jul 2006 03:38
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Quote: "What you need to make games in C or C derivatives
* Huge programming teams of 8-20 people
* Tons of money
* A year and sometimes longer"


No--- you don't. It's not hard for a single person to make a good game in C++. If you knew the language and its principles, you'd understand that it's just a different way of thinking.

EDIT:

Okay, basically when you say it takes longer to code in C++, you're speaking about all that stuff you need to initialize DX, etc. Well nobody in their right mind has to think about that code with each game they do--- they'll just copy and paste it from another game or call it from a library. Not hard at all.

Quote: "We can do more with DBP in a month than they can with C in a year"


And again--- not true. Like I said, if you have good C++ libraries you can do the same as DBP. Look at DarkGameSDK--- it's the DBP libraries built on C++, so your logic is flawed my friend.

Quote: "Sometimes I wish Microsoft would give a few better examples on how to achieve certain things with the DirectX SDK. "


I don't know how much more straightforward they could be It starts off with a single triangle, and a square, a cube, texturing, animating, effects, etc. I don't know how much simpler you could start than with a triangle.


"I understand creative people. After all, I worked with towel designers." - Ray Kassar, former head of Atari
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2006 03:53
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Matt posted as if he had statistical data.
bizarre post there matt

Science, Mathematics, and Physics do not lie - only people do.
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the_winch
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2006 03:56
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Quote: "I think they're just jealous We can do more with DBP in a month than they can with C in a year How many of them have actually released games?"


How many dbp users have actually released games? Collectivly dbp users are just as bad as everyone else at not actually finishing anything.
If anything it's human nature that's to blame not the tools. Even producing a rubbish game takes a lot of effort and time, most people arn't prepared to goto such lengths for what is essencially just a hobby.

By way of demonstration, he emitted a batlike squeak that was indeed bothersome.
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ionstream
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2006 04:23
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I personally have found that the lower-level the language is, the more jerks there are. Probably because it is more difficult to code in C/C++ and ASM than, say, Python, so the people who fully understand it think that they are elite.

DBP as a language is less "in depth," giving you less flexibilty than the object oriented nature of C++, but this also makes it simpler to understand for a beginner. For example, A beginner in darkbasic just needs to understand that objects are given a number, but in C++, they may have to understand that the object is a pointer to something in the engine's object stack. Not a deciding factor on whether or not to use the language, but certainly a difference.

As an engine, DBP has quite a few advantages over C++. It is integrated in the language/compiler, as opposed to C++ having to search for a suitable engine, make sure it is compatible with the compiler, and then add it to the include/library directories of the compiler. Sound and input are also done much simpler in DBP than any engine I've used in C++, but this greatly depends on the engine and/or external libraries.

Outside of the language and engine, DBP offers some game-specific things that C++ doesn't. For example, the DBP compiler allows you to embed media into the executable, change the icon of the executable, and other features. This is of course possible with C/C++, but its compiler specific and possibly more difficult.

Also its worth noting that DBP is made for making games and interactive applications, whereas C++ is a general-purpose language that is not specific to any kind of application.

I've never made a game, DBP or C++, so maybe I shouldn't be talking .

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Darth Vader
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2006 07:12 Edited at: 22nd Jul 2006 07:13
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I post this post thinking it will fall down the list like a rock, I go to bed and wake up to find a large debate!

I wasn't comparig the launguages on the Gamedev IRC, all I did was mention that I use Dark Basic. Its the attitude that the people have.
Quote: ""You suck cause you use Dark Basic"
"You won't get anywere!"
"Dark Basic is a child programming launguage!""


They also think BASIC = Not good. Seriously I don't know what they have against BASIC! Great launguage (All the deriviatives) Dark Basic is just as equally as good! I have read in a lot of places that if you know Basic then lots of other programming launguages come easier!

Personally I think Dark Basic is really good, and I despise people saying that Dark Basic won't get you anywere! Personally I think it will, in fact I am going to go as far as proving them wrong! {Please remember this has nothing to do with TGC or any C++ users here!). Sure if I learn C++ I will probably make some DLL's to improve Dark Basic, but I will use Dark Basic to make my software/games!

I know "I'm fighting a losing war" is what you will say (probably) but I am willing to try!



I also agree with Cash Curtis II Dark Basic needs a boring programming launguage!
DB++
Dark++
Basic++ lol

I have the longest Biog under my profile button!

"You don't know the power of Dark Basic Pro!"

-Darth Vader-
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Van B
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2006 13:45
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So, I can see we have 2 types of people posting here.

People who read the first post and agree that most of the Game Dev folk are jerks - the topic in hand.

And folk who simply can't wait to tell us how easy C++ is. That's not the point, and it's not what this post is about - the post is about a dig at a dev community that see's us as lesser mortals because we use basic. It's nice to see so many C++ coders here feel the same way.

Aegrescit medendo
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Darth Vader
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Location: Adelaide SA, I am the only DB user here!
Posted: 22nd Jul 2006 13:52
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Okay!!!
I thought this would be locked cause I was having a dig at the game dev community. But now that a MOD has actually stated it. Yep this is what this thread is about!
Van B you are on my 'most helpful person' of the month list!


I have the longest Biog under my profile button!

"You don't know the power of Dark Basic Pro!"

-Darth Vader-
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adr
21
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Joined: 21st May 2003
Location: Job Centre
Posted: 22nd Jul 2006 15:05 Edited at: 22nd Jul 2006 15:08
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Quote: "Even producing a rubbish game takes a lot of effort and time"


Amen!

Quote: "the post is about a dig at a dev community that see's us as lesser mortals because we use basic."

Most of the people who are surprised at those remarks dished out by another community must be fairly young or inexperienced within the IT world. Incidentally, that's not directed at you, VanB - you were just summarising the situation. This is directed at all the people who can't understand why someone'd be so ignorant.

I'll save you the heartache now and say:
Computer geeks are obnoxious pricks
It's not just C++ vs DBPro. It's every-damn-thing. If you take an alternative viewpoint, you're a n00b/gay or something equally childish. Rest assured, that people with such inflammatory opinions will still be packing your grocery bags when they're in their mid 30s.

I get it because I use Linux when I should obviously be using Windows. I get it because I use Windows when I should obviously be using Linux. I get it because I use PHP rather than Java. I get it because I use Gnome rather than KDE ... and so on and so on.

[center]
But you see, I have the will of the warrior. Therefore, the battle is already over. The winner? Me!
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Jeku
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21
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Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 22nd Jul 2006 23:13 Edited at: 22nd Jul 2006 23:14
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Quote: "It's nice to see so many C++ coders here feel the same way"


Hope that wasn't aimed at me, as I wasn't take a jab at anyone, but merely defending the language I use every day. Anyone who disses another group because of their preferred computer language is a nerd in the worst way.

EDIT:

This reminds me-- I wonder if abacus nerds were dissing calculator boys in the 70s


"I understand creative people. After all, I worked with towel designers." - Ray Kassar, former head of Atari
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Matt Rock
19
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Joined: 5th Mar 2005
Location: Binghamton NY USA
Posted: 23rd Jul 2006 00:07
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"Those screwy computer people and their punch cards!"


"In an interstellar burst, I'm back to save the universe"
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Cash Curtis II
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Joined: 8th Apr 2005
Location: Corpus Christi Texas
Posted: 23rd Jul 2006 02:32
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Quote: "Computer geeks are obnoxious pricks"

Yeah, I guess this is true. Computer geeks are often empassioned about whatever they're doing. Like "M$ SUCKS!", or "I'd never use a Mac!", or "God, you use Basic?". I don't know what it is, but it just is. The worst part about taking computer courses is that the people in the programming classes are all boring geeks. They're into programming, but they don't do anything interesting. I guess that programmers are generally not gamers. I guess that's why I hang out here, because here are some of the world's finest programmers / gamers.

Quote: "This reminds me-- I wonder if abacus nerds were dissing calculator boys in the 70s "

Well, I imagine that the slide rule folks were.



Come see the WIP!
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Arkheii
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Location: QC, Philippines
Posted: 25th Jul 2006 06:56
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Post screenies first, give development details later.

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Torrey
20
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Location: New Jersey
Posted: 25th Jul 2006 08:07
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"It's not what you have, it's how you use it!"

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Manticore Night
21
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Joined: 23rd Oct 2003
Location: Ouinnipeg
Posted: 25th Jul 2006 23:06
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Quote: "The worst part about taking computer courses is that the people in the programming classes are all boring geeks. They're into programming, but they don't do anything interesting."

Amen to that One think that pisses me off is that the programming courses need more girls. I mean I want to program but were would you meet women in University if your only in CompSci courses. Hmm, maybe there'll be asian chicks! Asians like Computers, right?

[center]It's amazing how much TV has raised us. (Bart Simpson)

He's back! With 20% less intelligence!
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Dazzag
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Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Cyprus
Posted: 26th Jul 2006 00:23
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You are allowed out of lecturer theatres.

Interestingly my cousin is doing the same Comp Sci course at the same uni as I did over a decade ago. At the time we had 6 women out of 100 students in our year. 3 left straight away to do physics. My cousin says that now there are 300 students on the course. And she is one of seven women. Things don't really change in IT methinks.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
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Tinkergirl
21
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Joined: 1st Jul 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 26th Jul 2006 00:48
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When I was doing AI And Psychology, I was one of about 4 girls doing AI, but on the Psychology it was closer to about 80% girls.

Hated the Psychology - it was all statistics Never once got to play with the electrodes.

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Jeku
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21
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Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 26th Jul 2006 05:12
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Well, I met my wife in a course (Economics) required for my degree, so all hope is not off


"I understand creative people. After all, I worked with towel designers." - Ray Kassar, former head of Atari
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Seppuku Arts
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20
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Joined: 18th Aug 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 30th Jul 2006 01:08
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Game Dev isn't the only site, I just got grief from another guy saying Dark Basic is crap, he said it was so crap he gave up using it after a few weeks and put him off of programming for a while...weirdo.

Quote: "Computer geeks are obnoxious pricks"


Correction, computer nerds, heck nerds in general, most of us here are computer geeks, nerds are the obnoxious ones, like Keiran who tries to hang around with the bigger people, but he is really irritating, he cannot take a 'politicall incorrect' joke and will correct you everything on that and will insist Macs are crap, no question, he is completely right and everyone is completely wrong, no wonder I almost smacked him in the face several times. That my friends is a computer nerd.

At least the other nerd I know takes jokes, like when I went into GAME with a couple of friends and saw him with his girlfriend, I went up to him, hugged him and told his girlfriend that he was going out with me and 6 other girls.

Quote: "Hated the Psychology - it was all statistics"


Ha ha, I stopped Psychology after my AS exam, I'm not taking it onto A2, but it is too much statistics, a lot of it is interesting, but hey I had to either drop that or Philosophy, I need the other two subjects, and something as chilled back and interesting as philosophy isn't worth dumping for something that bored me with stats.

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Megaton Cat
21
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Joined: 24th Aug 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: 30th Jul 2006 01:20 Edited at: 30th Jul 2006 01:20
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Yeah, don't lump geeks into the nerd category. Many geeks are in healthy standing (both physical and lifestyle) while nerds are more geared towards academics, neglecting hygiene and personal fitness to code or study, and play large amounts of said board-game.

(I'm a PC Geek and a horrible student too)


New Catfolio.net coming soon!
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Seppuku Arts
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20
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Joined: 18th Aug 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 30th Jul 2006 02:02
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yup, Tom n 6th form is a geek, he beats loads of people at Battle for middle earth and plays that, but also gets drunk at parties, likes pain and is one of the toughest guys in the school. While nerds wipe their snot on their sleeve programming 3 viruses at once whilst writing a hacker program in only binary all at the same time (Yes, nerds are octopuses with several computers)

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