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Geek Culture / New here, have some questions

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Heliad15
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Posted: 28th Jul 2006 03:03 Edited at: 28th Jul 2006 03:17
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Hi all, I just registered today and I have a few questions about the game development programs in general.

first off, my birthday is coming up and I plan to get a decent amount of money, and I plan to get at least one GD program. I was considering The 3D Gamemaker for its simplicity, decent graphics, and cheap price. However, I've been checking out some reviews people have been giving it here on the forums, and I'm starting to think it may or may not be the best thing to get. It's not completly out of the question, but here's the deciding question...can you make multiple levels for a game? I noticed in the product description that it never mentions levels, only "scenarios". I interpreted this as a possible "one-level thing" rather than a full-fledged game, so I was kinda discouraged. You guys know more about this so that's why I ask.

Another thing is I plan to most likely buy FPSC after d-loading it and making a short level. It looks pretty cool, and I know you can make multiplayer games and a full-fledged game, but is there anything else I should know and consider?

Finally, DarkBasic looks like it has a lot of capabilities, but heres the thing. I have very little to no knowledge of programming whatsoever, and from looking at strings of code, it strikes me as something that could, in the long run, kill my eye vision and give me gray roots. But what is DB like? Easy to learn, or hard to learn? Before answering, look at this through the perspective of a complete programming newbie.

I realize this is a uber-long thread for only three questions, but I wanted to be descript about my questions so there isn't too much confusion over my situation.

Anyway, thanks in advance, any help is much appreciated

Mod edit: Please don't post your age on these forums
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The end is near
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Posted: 28th Jul 2006 03:23
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DBPro is about as easy as it gets, after 2 months i created my first 2d game and in 3 months i created 3d.
PROGGRAMMING IS BETTER THAN ANY OTHER CREATION TOOL.
whether it's c++, DBPRo , or python , or this list could go on forever.

My current savings for the PS3 is: $486.00 out of $600 !!!
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 28th Jul 2006 03:26
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Heliad15, without a solid foundation I think that you'll be a bit overwhwelmed and frustrated that you can't make DBP work for you. Most of the more experienced users here have a previous history of programming.

You need to take some sort of programming class to teach you the fundamentals, without which no amount of 3D commands can help you. Programming isn't easy, and takes time to learn.


Come see the WIP!
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soapyfish
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Posted: 28th Jul 2006 03:33
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DB is a great place to start when programming but it can be hard to get your head around at first.

The best thing to do would be to download the demo and try it out. When you first start you'll probably be a bit stuck but read some of the great tutorials that are available on the website and this forum and you'll soon know whether or not it's the thing for you.

<º))))><.·´¯`·.Here's to the crazy ones¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>
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Sly D
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Posted: 28th Jul 2006 03:58 Edited at: 28th Jul 2006 03:59
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Quote: "You need to take some sort of programming class to teach you the fundamentals, without which no amount of 3D commands can help you. Programming isn't easy, and takes time to learn."


I remember DB Classic had a really great programming crash course in the help files. It had all the basic programming principles laid out really nicely.
Plus I think DB (both Pro and Classic) are nice languages to start your first programming steps. It is BASIC after all.

A cute looking koala with a WHAT!? THEY can't use Kalashnikovs, can they?
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Jeff Miller
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Location: New Jersey, USA
Posted: 28th Jul 2006 04:51
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Happy upcoming birthday. In answer to your questions:

1. You can indeed make multi-level games in DPPro, if that's what you are evaluating. It is very flexible.

2. There are several specific forums on this site for FPS Creator which you should look at for specific info about it's capabilities.

3. While you express fear of killing your vision and getting gray roots, let me say that my vision is already killed, all my hair is gray except the hairs which have turned white, I have a grandson who programs, and I started programming on punchcards. Yet as slowly as a person my age learns new things (lot of gray brain cells die along the way), I selected DBPro to take me to the 3D programming world. From that perspective, however, I agree wholeheatedly with Cash Curtis II that if you have, as you say, little or no programming experience, you will most definitely have to get some before you take the plunge into TGC programming products like DPPro. At the point where you have mastered some Basic, however, DBPro seems to me to be a good introduction into 3D programming. The TGC documentation and help files are worse than aweful, but the forum support is better than awesome. If you found your way here, you will find your way through just about any hurdle.
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Heliad15
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Posted: 28th Jul 2006 05:40
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Thanks a lot for all your input, I do plan to try taking Visual Basic classes in my sophmore year and dive into C++ when I hit junior and senior year. i've been wanting to make a decent simple game for a while and when I've obtained enough knowledge through these forums, through classes, and through experience, I plan to work on more advanced and sophisticated games, one being an MMORPG. It's a long road, but I'm willing to take the first steps. I have a lot of great ideas, I just need the resources and the means to bring those ideas out of my head, onto the screen, and maybe into a disc. At the moment, i'll probably go with FPSC and work with map design and familiarize myself with making a game from that genre. The 3D Game Maker looks alright, but until I'm certain that I can make multiple levels with it, I'm not going to fork out cash for it. I'll be looking through the programming threads to familiarize myself a little bit with the language. Any other info is greatly appreciated.
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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 28th Jul 2006 07:13
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Try downloading the DBP demo and working with it and tutorials for a few weeks, see how you like it. Your not going to make The Elder Scrolls V or The Sims 3 in a few months. Games like those take developement teams of often hundreds of people working for years to make. Just understand that . While programming is the hardest way to go, it's the best way to go flexibility wise and if your looking for a future in game making. Technically, anything is possible. Good luck .

Pirates of Port Royale
Live the life of a pirate.
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 28th Jul 2006 07:49 Edited at: 28th Jul 2006 07:50
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@Heliad15 -
Quote: "I plan to work on more advanced and sophisticated games, one being an MMORPG. "


That seems to be the dream and goal of every new person that comes here. To be quite honest with you, it's almost a pointless pursuit. ORPGs take lots of money, and a dedicated server. Anything else is just a waste of everyone's time.

Further, most people are simply not capable of making an RPG. Until you are, you shouldn't even consider making an MMORPG. A single player RPG alone is an extraordinarily complex undertaking, and requires not only a very indepth knowledge of programming, but a planning and creative talent that few people have.

You could, however, lend your time to the Open Source MMORPG, which is the most promising example of an online RPG that I have seen. If you're actually willing to dedicate time, you'll learn a lot and be involved in a good project.


Come see the WIP!
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Gowmars
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Posted: 28th Jul 2006 10:55
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The 3D Gamemaker does not support multiplayer. And for the goals you have in mind it’s very limiting to use that program.

I have used FPSC and it is a lot less limiting than 3DGM. I actually find it a very fun program to play with, and the fact that is supports multiplayer makes it all the more better. And it also allows you to take it a step further and write your own scripts for it, so you get that nice convenient point and click interface and at the same time you will be able to get a start off on some very simple coding.

But not even that compares to the power you get with DBP because then you get to build the game from scratch so you get full control over every aspect of the game. It was easy for me to use because I had already learned programming prior to using it. I had taken classes in C++ and Visual Basic. But if you are looking to learn programming then DBP is an excellent language to start with. Also if you take some programming classes in school like you said, that will make it even easier when you go to use DBP.

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Crazy Ninja
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Posted: 28th Jul 2006 12:16
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for what you have in mind the 3d gamemaker is not the way to go. i have it and I never use it. the games that you can make are pretty bland and you can't customize the finer points of your game and are only one level. FPSC is quite fun to use and can have very good results but you can only make first person shooters with it. I use dbc myself but i'm hoping to get DBP because of all the cool add-ons like dark ai/physics. From what youve written i would suggest DBP or FPSC. Hope you get whats right for you
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Fallout
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Posted: 28th Jul 2006 12:38
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I have no experience with 3DGM or FPSC, just with DBP, but I think FPSC might be your best bet if you want to make a game within a few months, especially if it's a first person shooter.

Do not let anyone tell you DBP is an easy way to make games. I'm afraid it's not. It is probably the easiest way to program a decent game, but it's still a difficult undertaking. To make something that might come close to your vision of a good game (which we all get inspiration and ideas from the games we play) will take a lot of time, learning and effort.

Further more, DBP won't be enough to make a full game. You'll need media (your 3D models, levels, sound, music etc.). If you plan to make all of this yourself, you'll need to spend money on the tool to do this (potentially hundreds of dollars). If you plan to get other peeps involved to help you out in this department, that can be very difficult in itself to get people interested who have the skills. If you do make everything yourself, there is another load of skill sets you have to learn above and beyond programming.

Now, I know that might all be discouraging, but I don't mean it to be. Simply put, if you're happy to spend (realistically) a year or more making simple low quality demos, little games, test engines as you develop your skills, eventually arriving at the point where you are capable and motivated to make a top game, then DBP is the way to go. DBP is the freedom to make anything you want, but DBP isn't enough in itself. As you get into it, you'll see there are loads more skills you must learn and products you might have to buy. If you just want to spend a reasonable amount of time making a fun game as a hobby, then I think FPSC is probably the way to go.

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Van B
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Posted: 28th Jul 2006 13:06
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Yeah FPSC is probably best for now, until you have a good understanding of that, then look into DBPro. Remember you can use levels made in FPSC in DBPro, you could even mess with the engine source code for FPSC in DBPro - so it's a great learning oppurtunity. Getting the theory down is the first step, there's no point looking at code until you know how things like the 3D coordinates system works - that's why FPSC comes recommended, it'll teach you a lot about game programming and let you see what DBPro is capable of. So when you say 'I would'nt have done it like that', you can go into the DB code and change it - how often do we get to do that with other peoples stuff!.

Once you have the basics down, the world is your lobster - it's much easier to adopt physics in DBPro than other languages, so you can have professional quality physics without needing a degree in mathemaphysics or whatever. The Ageia physics engine is being used in the latest Unreal games, and is soon available as a plugin for DBPro, everyone seems to want physics these days and with DarkPhysics and DBPro there will be no easier platform to develop physics games.

Aegrescit medendo
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Heliad15
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Posted: 28th Jul 2006 15:43
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@Cash Curtis II

Yeah, I do realize it's a really hard goal,and I by no means plan on making one in the near future. However, I really don't see it as a pointless pursuit. There are multiple programs online that I have checked out that are totally free and support scripting and tons of features. It would definitly NOT be 3D, that is a pointless pursuit. It would just be a 2D, Final Fantasy-style graphics game, but hopefully with features that will make it fun. Thanks for your idea on joining an ORPG, that sounds like something cool that I would be interested in.

@Gowmars

Thanks, you've saved me from wasting $35 on software that will, in the long run, not be of much use.
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Torsten Sorensen
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Posted: 29th Jul 2006 02:57
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I have the 700 page DBP book, really need to start reading it.


Mostly play halo 2, and a few other games.. www.sonic-chocolate.com
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Heliad15
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Posted: 31st Jul 2006 04:38
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So what is the difference between DB and C++?
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