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Work in Progress / GTRacing WIP

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VR2
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Posted: 14th Aug 2006 12:16
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Just ran the demo and....wow that track is really amazing, did you make that yourself?!

I got a smooth looking 31 FPS, kinda reminded me of PS1.

The car model, get rid of it quick!! Its too high poly and doesn't fit in with the gorgeous track, even for a demo! All that yellow...yuck! Who wants a Merc anyway - stick in a Ferarri asap

I'm not here to talk about the car model tho, but then again I'm not sure what to say about the physics....

The car vehicle itself actually behaved quite well, bouncing on the suspension nicely, collision detection, running over the curbs. Really rather good. Better than I was expecting in fact!

It was just the turning...

Obviously you were missing the tyre slip commands, which I understand are in the update patch out today? (like, a week after launch?!) Unfortunately, for this demo, this meant that the car handling was rather unrealistic when turning, it was as if you had super glue on the tyres. A few times the car would swing right round in a corner, leaving the camera kinda looking face down at the seats.

Other than that, yeah, the camera needs work, especially when reversing.

Also, the collisions with the walls were not so hot - you just "get stuck" rather than "scrape" down them (with sparks, eventually?)

Also I was amazed when I ran over a cone (expecting to see it go flying off, realistically)....the car just stopped dead and twitched about

Having said all af this, and knowing that DP is so young, I have to say that this is one of the better amature vehicle physics demos I've ever played!! Period. At least the car was generally controllable and had some semblance of speed (I'd like more tho!)

I'd really like to see another demo with an updated camera and the trye slip commands all in there.

All in all though, I think this demo bodes well for your game and for Dark Physics in general
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Turoid
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Posted: 14th Aug 2006 22:56
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Looks good! But how many polys does the car have?


http://www.darkbasic.nl/
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mm0zct
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Posted: 15th Aug 2006 21:04
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@uncle sam: i only find it jerky when the minimum fraerate is below 20. the average frame rate being above 30 for me i find ok but really it isn't the average framerate that makes things seem stuttery, it's when the framerate is unstable and spikes and falls, if it falls bellow 20 regularly then it's not smooth, but if the framerate doesn't drop below 20-30 then i think it's ok.
remember the average framerate could be reported as 30fps when at times it's doing 10 and at others it's doing 60 though, that's what would make an average framerate of 30fps stuttery. if it's constant 30fps or higher, then i think it's fairly smooth.

AMD athlon 64 3000+, 1GB ddr400, 400GB total hdd, ati radeon x700pro 256mb (pci-e) 17" tft(@1280x1024).
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Elite Gaming
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Posted: 15th Aug 2006 22:07
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Well, i've been waiting till i have the proper models for the car in place (built by kevin_g, same author as the track) to post new shots of the game up, and here they are! You'll be glad to know the merc has gone, which for those who asked how many polys it had, once 11,000! Twice as much as Gran Turismo 4 cars, so it wasn't going to work well. The new car now has 2500 polys, and has a semi built interior as well, which you can't see in the screenies, as i still need to apply the opacity to the windows, and front head lights. This has helped the FPS quite a bit, and their is more optimisation to be done.

The wheels need a little bit more work to make them smooth, which should increase the polys by about 100-200, but it has 6 textures (and is the Dodge Viper GTS). More cars are scheduled for the next demo, hopefully another 5, but its getting expensive now!



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VR2
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Posted: 16th Aug 2006 02:37
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Quote: "its getting expensive now!"


Are you paying someone to make models for you (track + cars)? They *ARE* really nice!!

So who *IS* this uber modeller? How much is he charging you (if you don't mind me asking?).

How's it going with the cornering / handling?
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Elite Gaming
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Posted: 16th Aug 2006 02:48
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Yeah, the models are being out-sourced, and bought via a company, all the by the same modeller due to his work on vehicles and tracks being outstanding, and so far, expensives have gone through a few hundred pounds.

Although they are being out-sourced, theirs still loads of work that i'm having to do to the models, they are built in Max, so exporting them to use in direct x is a pain, but means the models are pretty good. Usually get alot of texturing problems (like with the track with opacity).

The handling is going all right at the moment, just working on power sliding, and steering at the moment (the power sliding is working when your travelling fast, but the car just slips, and doesn't slide yet), and the steering is just be refined to be a little less responsive. Hopefully get the material settings done soon, to slow the car on different terrains, but thats prooving a problem.

Currently also working on a system to accuratly display the correct speed of the vehicle, using some basic maths equations, and will then start working on the gearing system, and apply sound.
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VR2
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Posted: 16th Aug 2006 03:42
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Wow, good for you, looking forward to the next demo.

Do you get the standard PhysX toolset when you buy DP? http://www.ageia.com/developers/tools.html
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Elite Gaming
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Posted: 16th Aug 2006 03:50
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You get the PhysX debugger, and thats about it i'm afraid, although PhysX create and rocket do sound very good.
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VR2
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Posted: 16th Aug 2006 12:24
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Hmmm, you're using a commercial physics engine (PhysX), but having to handcraft your vehicle properties instead of using the (free)tool designed for the job (part of why its a commercial engine = the toolset)?

Isn't that a bit like buying a slap up grill, but only having chopsticks to eat it with?

Maybe you have access to the tool/source code/demos now you are a "Registered Developer" of PhysX, albeit via the proxy of DBPro & DP?
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Sixty Squares
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Posted: 19th Aug 2006 04:29
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There's a nice model

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zzz
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Posted: 19th Aug 2006 15:17
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This game is really coming along nicely.

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Elite Gaming
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Posted: 20th Aug 2006 19:53 Edited at: 20th Aug 2006 19:57
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New Demo v1.2

Thanks for the comments people. I have a new and updated demo (v.1.2) with a few bugs fixed.

The main one was the steering, it's now more realistic, although isn't quite their yet. For people who played the last update demo, your going to need to brake alot now. Once i fixed a few bugs with using materials with vehicle physics (which i think is a bug with DarkPhysics at the mo), it should be alot more realistic, as the track has now been split into different sections - the track has its only material, the offroad sections have its own material, the concrete walls the same, and the tyre walls (you may notice a slight difference bouncing off a tyre wall than a concrete wall).

The other change from the old demo is now the new car model with alot better polys (11,000 on the old one, compared to 2500 on the new model). At the moment, it still needs a bit of work, the tyres need smoothing, and the gloss effect on it needs tweaking.

I'm currently sorting out the lightmapping on the track, and also the shadows from the vehicle, so hopefully, not long from now i can start to add the ai (car physics are taking alot longer then expected!).

The camera problems have been adjusted, although still buggy when reversing and crashing (sometimes), which is WIP at the moment.

So, for now, enjoy racing around the Laguna Seca Track. Tip: Brake hard and early for the corkscrew corner, otherwise you'll end up in the concrete! Brake early and hard for the last corner, or you'll end up in the tyre wall!

Controls:

Accelerate: Upkey
Brake: Downkey
Turn Left: Leftkey
Turn Right: Rightkey
Reverse: Controlkey

http://moshed.co.uk/gtracing/gtracing_new.exe - 22.2Mb
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Xenocythe
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Posted: 20th Aug 2006 20:17 Edited at: 20th Aug 2006 20:22
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Holy crap this is amazing! The physics are great, the graphics are great, I love the blue car! its awesome! Great job!!!!



EDIT: I just don't like the fact that if you hit the wall you stop completely and you don't get richoshed' to the certain angle.

Applyby has Flies in his Eyes.
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Elite Gaming
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Posted: 21st Aug 2006 03:59
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@Xenocythe

Thanks, its taking a while to get it their, but it is improving. The materials on the walls still need a little bit of work, and i'm just going through some physics of crashing (alot more complex that it sounds!) to work out the correct angle that the wall will push the vehicle at.

Just noticed that theirs been over 20 downloads of the new demo, please comment on it if you can, as it will help me fix the bugs in it so far. I'm currently just about to update the demo, with a lap timer, so you can see what your fastest lap is.

Mines 1:40:34 if you can beat it!
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VR2
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Posted: 21st Aug 2006 04:10 Edited at: 21st Aug 2006 04:14
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Runtime error 1507 display using 32 bits is not supported by available hardware at line 0

But the first demo ran fine here

I have a Radeon XPress 200M
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Elite Gaming
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Posted: 21st Aug 2006 04:22
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Hmm, i had the screen res set at 1280x1024 windowed, and it would use what ever color depth you was running on machine. What color depth are you using?
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VR2
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Posted: 21st Aug 2006 04:44
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I tried with both 32 & 16 bit color and get a smilar message. However I have a WIDE screen display, and it does not support 1280 X 1024.

I'm thinking that if you get the client caps and go for 1280 width (desired), then get the first compatible height that goes with that, then widescreen will be catered for. You may need to adjust also the code for the view projection as the ratio is different, otherwise things look squashed!

Other than that, use the settings you had for Demo 1, as that worked fine
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Elite Gaming
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Posted: 21st Aug 2006 05:00 Edited at: 21st Aug 2006 05:12
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VR2, their is a new version being uploaded, that is set at 1024,768, i changed it to test some things on my machine, but forgot to change it back. This version also has the lap time function, although, the track at the moment only has one "checkpoint", so going forward then reversing back will track the new lap time, these checkpoints will be used for the AI, so i will be adding more once i get round to the AI.

Uploaded: http://moshed.co.uk/gtracing/gtracing_new.exe

Hope this helps VR2
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VR2
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Posted: 21st Aug 2006 05:29
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Ok thanks, that runs (windowed mode)...I'll have a play with that tomorrow...
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Elite Gaming
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Posted: 21st Aug 2006 20:45
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Just incase some of you are having problems running this demo, you will need to download the AGEIA Physics drivers from the following link:

[href]http://www.ageia.com/physx/drivers.html [/href]

Without this, you may experience some errors when trying to start the game.
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Xenocythe
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Posted: 21st Aug 2006 21:11
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Did you know that lowering the resolution will raise the FPS?





Trying the new demo.

Applyby has Flies in his Eyes.
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Joe Cooning
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Posted: 21st Aug 2006 21:18
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I couldn't get the car to backup, which is really annoying when you get trapped by the wall.

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Sixty Squares
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Posted: 21st Aug 2006 21:21 Edited at: 21st Aug 2006 21:22
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Cool, I like the demo. Just the camera seems a bit messed up, as it goes inside the track and car. Try this:

-Make a sphere with a radius of the size of the camera. This sphere is the camera. Hide it.
-Put the sphere where the camera should be.
-Calculate collision but not gravity for the sphere.
-Put the camera where the sphere is.



@Joe: Press CONTROL to back up He even told you in his post, gosh...

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mm0zct
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2006 01:33
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i regularly end up going over the wall, i even flipped onto the roof, needs tighter turning now, also a much higher camera view and a to go faster.

i get nice transparency on the windows, lovely interior.

AMD athlon 64 3000+, 1GB ddr400, 400GB total hdd, ati radeon x700pro 256mb (pci-e) 17" tft(@1280x1024).
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VR2
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2006 01:52
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OK first the bad:

Arrgg!!! yes the lack of a reverse gear made things frustrating!

The camera is too lose to the car imho, most of the time it even obscured the track, I just felt I was looking the the boot of the car the whole time (lovely tho it was). I know its a nice model but we need to see the track too

The car turning seemed too slow now, I kept reaching for the handbrake to turn the car in quicker, but never found it. I found that you have to slow right down to get the car to turn in at all. Maybe that is realistic (I've never raced on a track so couldn't say) but I do know that it wasn't fun

Contact with concrete side or rubber tyre walls had little overall effect - basically you just come to a dead stop, not realistic and more than a little infuriating, especially without the reverse.

Now the good:

Wow, great car with semi transparent rear window!

The car suspension felt nice and real. Going along the straights was excellent

The car turning was better than in Demo 1.

Overall it was a better demo but as let down by the slow turning, lack of reverse gear and camera (in that order).

I know it may not be part of your game plan, but I'd really like to be able to get these cars sideways and be powesliding through the bends
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Joe Cooning
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2006 03:49
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You mentioned that you paid for the models. Are you planning on selling the game? If you are, you have a lot of real company logo's all over the place that you may have to worry about.

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Sixty Squares
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2006 04:13
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YOU GUYS. PRESS CONTROL TO GO BACKWARDS! Geez... he even told you!

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Xenocythe
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2006 04:35
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Yah, but you had to go back and forth for a while to get out of a corner or after you crashed. Thats why physics for bouncing off walla is important


SO keep up the good work!

Applyby has Flies in his Eyes.
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Elite Gaming
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2006 12:45
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Hi Guys, thanks for the comments

@ Sixty Squares - The cameras something thats becoming a pain! I'm already using a sphere for the camera control, so with your additional ideas of collision on the sphere, i can hopefully fix the problem. I'm using going to look in depth at a few racing games to see how they deal with the problem. I'm thinking as well that the car appears too big on the screen, so changing this may help with increased visability of the screen.

@ VR2 - The vehicle turning to most will seem slow, but it is almost their to being realistic when its at speed. It does need tweaking to be a little more sensitive when at slow speeds.

The reverse key was control, and the tyre and concrete walls do need a little more work to "bounce" you off at an angle. I'm currently looking at crash dummy videos to see what angles cars would bounce off at, and also other formulas.

All the windows on the car are transparent, and need a little bit more work to allow for reflections.
I'm also working on powersliding - which will make the turning much more realistic - but needing help on it (perhaps DTsine could help, as he done it in his Dark GT), and brake locking (if you brake too hard for example).

@ Joe Cooning - The game was originally made to a) Demonstrate the abilty that DarkBASIC/Dark Physics has at simulation motor racing b) Help me with games programming, and to be used as a stepping stone for a job in the Games Industry (i'm currently a senior web developer for a design agency!)

Due to peoples reactions on this forum, it is encouringing me to develop the game further, and perhaps make a commercial version - this will either mean i replace all the companys logos used, and use other ones (e.g. DarkBasic logo, AGEIA logo etc), or try and contact some of the companys to ask for permission (most will probably ask for some kind of fee, so i will be looking for companys who would let me do it as free advertising), but the game really needs to develop more for me to do this. The car will mostly likely have to change as well, unless Dodge give me permission to use their car in the game.

Hope this answers your questions, and glad that most of you liked it! I've just built the the track hud, so you can now see where you are on the track by a blue dot that follows the track image, and now back to re-working the camera and car physics, whilst dabbling into the AI for the 7 other cars that will be on the track.
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VR2
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2006 01:12 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2006 01:14
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Quote: "The reverse key was control, and the tyre and concrete walls do need a little more work to "bounce" you off at an angle. I'm currently looking at crash dummy videos to see what angles cars would bounce off at, and also other formulas."


Ah Ok my bad, sorry didn't realise about the reverse. Any reason you didn't go for the down key?

How come you're looking at videos and formulas for bouncing off walls? Surely DP is doing that for you...in fact to try to do it yourself may well upset the physics simulation if you try to "force" where things are going. If you've got HW physics on your side I'd suggest you make the most of it!

Quote: "I'm also working on powersliding - which will make the turning much more realistic - but needing help on it "


Okay sounds good. If it helps, something I've been playing with in ODE is to have the front tyres have a bit more grip than the rear. Then as you turn sharply at speed, the rear of the car naturally begins to slide out (oversteer), especially if the driver has applied acceleration after turning into the bend (ala Tiff Needle). Then its matter of "catching" the drift and "balancing" the car on the edge of control, straightening out as you exit the bend. At least that' the theory, in practice its hard to get it right, both as pogrammer and as driver
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Sixty Squares
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2006 16:46
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Quote: "Any reason you didn't go for the down key?"

The downkey is hard to reach at times, in my opinion. Not to speak for Elite Gaming or anything.

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Screen Racer
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Posted: 20th Sep 2006 19:57
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Great progress! I enjoy seeing people creating something like this. I don't know why more people go about creating more games this way... If your only one person, it makes a ton of sence to buy what you need to finish your project. I have used K Garrows objects as well in my project, they are top notch, and work great! If you contact him directly, I'm sure he will cut you a deal. As would I, Turbo Squid take 50%, I'd rather give you a good deal on assets so you can make a better game.

[href=http://http://www.turbosquid.com/Search/Index.cfm/FuseAction/ProcessSmartSearch/istIncAuthor/GamesterArt.com/blAuthorExact/y]
link to my stuff on TS[/href]

Link to my site

Good luck with your project, and look forward to getting an email.
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Elite Gaming
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Posted: 11th Oct 2006 01:42
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@ Screen Racer

Sorry its taken a while to reply, didn't realise you had posted! Been busy with other projects, mainly web projects. I'll take a look at your site and get back to you.

Anyway, heres a couple of new screenies, showing the track map that i have done over the past few days.



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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 11th Oct 2006 01:46
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Look very nice .

Pirates of Port Royale
Live the life of a pirate.
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Sixty Squares
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Posted: 11th Oct 2006 01:52 Edited at: 11th Oct 2006 01:53
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Cool

(The car says PlayStation 2 on it)

Ummm...
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DTsine
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Posted: 11th Oct 2006 22:36
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Nice pics, still not got them trans maps for the windows ?

Hows the controls for the car coming along?

Rich
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Turoid
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Posted: 25th Oct 2006 13:55
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Download is broken?


http://www.darkbasic.nl/
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Crazy Ninja
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Posted: 25th Oct 2006 15:51
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Your pics are gone...

____ ____ ____ ___ _ _ __ _ _ __ _ _ ____
|___ |--< |--| /__ Y | \| | | \| ___| |--|
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Xenocythe
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Posted: 26th Oct 2006 00:09
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Your game has dissapeared without a trace... download gone, pictures gone... now where is the programmer? :-P

I liked the look of this!


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Elite Gaming
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Posted: 28th Oct 2006 10:31
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Hi guys,

Sorry about all the pictures and downloads dissapearing, problem with where all the files were being hosted!

I should be uploading them to a new host very soon, over the next few days, so i will be going through all the posts to corect the errors.

The project is still in progress, although a little slower as i am working on an entry for the Nvidia competition (didn't want to enter this, as its going to be nowhere near ready for February).

The new game is called "Just War", and their should be a wip thread soon for it.
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MExe
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Posted: 13th Jan 2007 19:31
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With some effort on graphics and some polishing (with of course some strong championship system) this game could go on store shelves.
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Joe Red
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2007 21:51
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Hi! Very nice progress. But I've got some advices. The phisics is too easy-to-drive (for me). It would be fun if the viper broke out because of the 600 horsepowers attacking the rear wheels, with some nice smoke effects Some transmission would be also very cool. The graphics is much better then mine was in my rally project http://users.atw.hu/rallyforever/Galery.html

I hope, my englis was understandable!
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$crampy
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Posted: 25th Feb 2007 00:30
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unfortunatly the .exe file has no icon, & is only 24.1k big & dosnt execute properly, i just get a command box that dissapears
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Chris Franklin_
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2007 22:22
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I hope this is still running! it looked amazing.

llllRgt
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Kanda
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Posted: 9th Apr 2007 16:38
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As the autor seems away currently, does anybody has the exe demo to give a try ???

thanks in advance.
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