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FPSC Classic Models and Media / Abnormal Normals

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Zilla
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Posted: 29th Aug 2006 23:02
I have a problem with my normal maps:

Everything is o.k. in the 3D modeling program (see attached image). The normal map transforms the simple and flat plane object into a curtain.

But in FPSC, the curtain is flat. The normal map has no effect!
The texture is named Curtain_D2.tga and the normal map Curtain_N.tga.

What is wrong?

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Zilla
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Posted: 29th Aug 2006 23:26 Edited at: 29th Aug 2006 23:32
Here is a screenshot from the FPSC-editor where you can see the values in the fpe-file of the curtain.

Is something missing?

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Zilla
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Posted: 30th Aug 2006 11:12 Edited at: 30th Aug 2006 11:13
I also attached the FPSC-ready Curtain here.

Can someone help me to find out what is wrong with it?

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Nighthawk
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Posted: 30th Aug 2006 19:16
You used not the right normal map
it has to be a DOT3 Normal Map

-> http://www.ati.com/developer/sdk/radeonSDK/html/Tools/ToolsPlugIns.html

--- This is not the best English, i'm from Germany
My System: Dell Dimension 5000, Intel P4 530J 3,0 GHz, 1GB DDR2 RAM, Sapphire Radeon X1900GT, BenQ FP71E+, No Fans - Thermal-Module
Zilla
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Posted: 30th Aug 2006 21:35
@Nighthawk

Thanx a lot! But unfortunately, it didn't work

This is the normal map, that TGAtoDOT3 produced (see attachment)

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Zilla
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Posted: 30th Aug 2006 21:37
here is the JPEG version of it

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Zilla
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Posted: 30th Aug 2006 21:39
and this is the unsuccessful result in FPSC

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Nighthawk
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Posted: 31st Aug 2006 15:08 Edited at: 31st Aug 2006 16:28
maybe make a normalmap yourself, with Photoshop

most of the generated normalmaps are very weak or aren't looking like what you expected

should it look like the first screen you made? something like this is possible, but not with normalmaps, i think you wanted to have those black spaces?

which 3D-Modelling Program do you use?

EDIT:

The Bumpent Shader is not a Normalmapping Shader, you have to use the Bumpcubereflectalpha Shader

--- This is not the best English, i'm from Germany
My System: Dell Dimension 5000, Intel P4 530J 3,0 GHz, 1GB DDR2 RAM, Sapphire Radeon X1900GT, BenQ FP71E+, No Fans - Thermal-Module
Zilla
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Posted: 31st Aug 2006 19:45 Edited at: 31st Aug 2006 19:47
Good evening Nighthawk!

Thank you very much for your help and your time

Quote: "which 3D-Modelling Program do you use?"

Cinema 4D

Quote: "maybe make a normalmap yourself, with Photoshop"

I now found out that I have to tell Cinema 4D to switch the Y- and the Z-Axis in creation of the normal map and -ping- the normal map now looks pink and blue how it should be.

Quote: "most of the generated normalmaps are very weak or aren't looking like what you expected
"

Does this mean that I CANNOT alter the geometry with normal maps so that I can see significant optical differences? Isn't it possible to map a lowpoly object (using subpolygon displacement) with a normal map that changes the geometry a lot?

Here is the link (with a german explanation)
http://www.maxon.net/pages/products/c4d/highlights_c4d/hl_c4d_baker_d.html

Quote: "should it look like the first screen you made? something like this is possible, but not with normalmaps, i think you wanted to have those black spaces?
"

Yes, it should! But the shadows are not in the texture, they come from the normal map that changed the flat plane into a folded curtain.

Do you know a FPSC-object (that I could study) with a normal map that has a significant in-game effect?
Zilla
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Posted: 31st Aug 2006 20:46
Hi, Nighthawk

"Ein Bild sagt mehr als tausend Worte..." Therefore I will explain it with pictures.

I have attached an image of a lowpoly object that I want to use in FPSC.

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Zilla
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Posted: 31st Aug 2006 20:50
Then I created I subpolygon displacement that I changed into a normal map.

I mapped this normal map on the lowpoly object and it looks like the attached image.

Will this effect (lowpoly object plus normal map that deforms the texture geometry) be visible in FPSC?

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Math89
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Posted: 31st Aug 2006 20:55
Quote: "Does this mean that I CANNOT alter the geometry with normal maps"

Normals and bump maps don't change the geometry, it's just an optical illusion.
Zilla
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Posted: 31st Aug 2006 21:16 Edited at: 31st Aug 2006 21:17
@Math89

Of course, you're right!

But my English is too bad that I could find the right words to explain what a normal map really does with an object or the vision it creates.

And isn' the geometry of a computer 3d-object also an optical illusion and everything on a computer screen is just illuminated pixels?
Nighthawk
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Posted: 31st Aug 2006 21:22 Edited at: 31st Aug 2006 21:23
yes, like Math89 said, but it looks better, see my reflecting cylinders

(German!: Du sprichst also Deutsch? Na dann erklär ichs mal auf Deutsch: FPS Creator unterstützt Bump, Illumination, Cube und Shine Maps, Bump und Normalmapping ähneln sich sehr stark, benutzen in der regel die gleichen Maps, Bump aber auch manchmal Heightmaps. So etwas wie du geschrieben hattest:
"But the shadows are not in the texture, they come from the normal map that changed the flat plane into a folded curtain" ist nicht möglich, nur z.B. als richtiges 3D-Modell oder als Einfache Textur mit Alphachannel. FPSC hat nicht solche Shader wie z.B. Cinema4D, außerdem ist ein "Umfalten" oder ähnliches mit Normalmaps überhaupt nicht möglich, es gibt aber eine Alternative, die aber bisher nur von Programmen wie 3DS Max unterstützt werden, nämlich Relief Mapping, und das ist erst recht nicht bei Real-Time-Grafikberechnung von der Grafikkarte geschweige denn FPSC möglich)

I read that Cinema 4D uses NormalMapping with Ambient Occlusion. That's something different to the Bumpmap/Normalmap Shader of FPSC.

--- This is not the best English, i'm from Germany
My System: Dell Dimension 5000, Intel P4 530J 3,0 GHz, 1GB DDR2 RAM, Sapphire Radeon X1900GT, BenQ FP71E+, No Fans - Thermal-Module
Zilla
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Posted: 31st Aug 2006 21:28
Google says:

In 3D computer graphics, normal mapping is an application of the technique known as bump mapping. While bump mapping perturbs the existing normal (the way the surface is facing) of a model, normal mapping replaces the normal entirely. Like bump mapping, it is used to add details to shading without using more polygons. ...
Nighthawk
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Posted: 31st Aug 2006 21:31
That's right, but FPSC doesn't use REAL Normalmapping, the Bumpcubereflectalpha Shader is a big step toward this, but it isn't a real Normalmap-Shader.

You need a new shader ^^

I am working on some new, a Parallax Shader, too

--- This is not the best English, i'm from Germany
My System: Dell Dimension 5000, Intel P4 530J 3,0 GHz, 1GB DDR2 RAM, Sapphire Radeon X1900GT, BenQ FP71E+, No Fans - Thermal-Module
Zilla
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Posted: 31st Aug 2006 22:40
@Nighthawk

Quote: "see my reflecting cylinders"

Where can I find them?
Nighthawk
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Posted: 1st Sep 2006 16:35
look at

"Helix Games Model Pack #1"

or

"The First Normal Mapping Demo ever made"

Quote: "Do you know a FPSC-object (that I could study) with a normal map that has a significant in-game effect?"


yes... there's a little... eh... explosive Box (i don't know what the name is, i've seen it at a friend's computer) with a really well looking bumpmap/normalmap

--- This is not the best English, i'm from Germany
My System: Dell Dimension 5000, Intel P4 530J 3,0 GHz, 1GB DDR2 RAM, Sapphire Radeon X1900GT, BenQ FP71E+, No Fans - Thermal-Module
Zilla
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 15:58
@Nighthawk

Quote: "Helix Games Model Pack #1"

coool!

Quote: "explosive Box (i don't know what the name is, i've seen it at a friend's computer)"

Can I see this box also?

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