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Geek Culture / Looks like they are ready to blame this on Video Games

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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 14th Sep 2006 19:58
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http://www.comcast.net/news/index.jsp?cat=GENERAL&fn=/2006/09/14/476376.html&cvqh=itn_montreal

This awful act looks prime to have video game violence opponents in an uproar. My heart goes out to those hurt.

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 14th Sep 2006 20:29 Edited at: 14th Sep 2006 20:29
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More likely vampire website opponents. I didn't see anything game related about it really, just a few throw-away comments to do with one online title. What an idiot, shame they didn't bag him sooner.

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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 14th Sep 2006 20:37
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Quote: "More likely vampire website opponents. I didn't see anything game related about it really, just a few throw-away comments to do with one online title. What an idiot, shame they didn't bag him sooner."


I agree the article only made brief statements about videogames but the game they mention is columbine. Video Game Violence is the big issue politicians here are trying to ride and it sickens me that a horrible event like this is going to be used to further peoples political career and add to the public fear.

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CattleRustler
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Posted: 14th Sep 2006 21:56 Edited at: 14th Sep 2006 21:56
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they uproar against video game violence left and right, but real unjustified killing (like illegal wars), that no one finds their bollocks about. pffft. pathetic.

Its 9/11 - but its FAKE 9/11 Ts=SQRT(Df/16)
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Alquerian
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Posted: 14th Sep 2006 22:07
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A 25 year old man following the in the footsteps of 2 demented teenagers... Pathetic is an understatement.

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 14th Sep 2006 22:24
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Yawn. Can we start blaming another industry now?

I call the meat-packing industry. Stop rotting the minds of our youth!!!

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 14th Sep 2006 22:33
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Video games are a terrible influence, just remember the mario girls, with their question mark boxes left in public, caused panic...tut should be banned definately, instead lets follow the influence of our country, I'm gonna play world war 2 with my friend, he's gonna be Germany and I'm gonna be England, don't worry, my uncle keeps real guns out back...

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heretic
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 00:30
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the hypocrisy of society is to blame acts of violence on videogames, music, or anything else that doesn't conform to the status quo-when the real cause is society itself. i don't pretend to understand why this guy did what he did, but he most likely was mentally unstable and he fell through the cracks. now we have this.

in the land of the insane, the man with the loaded pocupine is king.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 01:00
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People just want to blame, and when the responsibility is denied the blame has to go to a scape goat, and of course the scape goat is the easiest target.

Humanity is a hypocrit, as much as I counter act it, I see it everywhere, its silly, but thats how it is.

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Bahamut
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 01:27
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Well, the guy was sick. The problem is, that politicians will refuse to "believe" (i.e. admit) that he was mentally ill, and blame it on the usual suspects.

Goths (mostly pacifist btw), "heavy metal" (megadeth have anti-hunting songs), and Computer Games (I'm guessing this columbine "game" isn't commercial, or indorsed by anyone in the gaming industry. If I were to write a book about why killing people is a good thing, people would say the book is a disgrace, but no-one would dare suggest that all books should be banned).

I can't imagine what it would feel like for those involved. I hope politicians don't use yet another trajedy for their personal gain.

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Cian Rice
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 02:20
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The problem was that the guy didn't realize that there was a deeper meaning to the Super Columbine Massacre RPG, more than just a simulation, it was a study of society, with alot of philosophical elements. The game wasn't meant to glorify the horrible act of Columbine. He obviously had issues to begin with. =/

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 02:21
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The media in general is blamed a lot for violence and everything else, because people don't want to face the fact that on some level, small or large, it's their own faults that the world is the way it is. Look at movies for instance. There's a movie coming out soon, made by someone in England (I'm not sure who, maybe the bbc or something?) about a FICTIONAL assassination of President Bush. To my knowledge, it's made as a "what if" scenario film, a docudrama that takes a look at what the world would be like if it happened, and how the world might treat it today. I don't understand how that's any different than, say, a Discovery Channel show about the end of the world, where they show asteroids slamming into Berlin and tidal waves washing NYC off the map. So why are people getting all up-in-arms about this movie, when the Discovery Channel and National Geographic and the History Channel make shows where millions of people die in hypothetical situations? How is this worse? I think people like to take out their angst on the media in any way they can, and more often than not, it's unjust. I've run people over and killed old people in GTA, I've beaten people into goo in Fight Night, I've crashed my Microsoft Flight Simulator plane into urban areas, I've shot up my own guys in every war, cop, and anti-terrorism game I've ever played. And at the same time, I've never broken any laws, I've never stolen anything, and in 26 years of life I've never done a drug. I'd go so far as to say games can actually enforce right and wrong. It's not like you're awarded for running over dozens of people in GTA... the cops come after you in a big way. Ugh, I dunno, people are overly sensitive.


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Agent Dink
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 02:35
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What Matt Rock said.

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 03:11
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Quote: "And at the same time, I've never broken any laws,"


Not yet perhaps - just wait till they ban violent PC games ...
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HandK
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 03:54
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I think to some extent video games are to blame. Not obviously for the creation of such people, thats down to society as a whole, but rather that some of these actions are inspired by vidoe games and violent films/TV.

Video games in particular with thier "Active", control of somtimes quite violent characters cannot help but fuel these peoples fantasy. Would making all media loverly and light stop these people? Maybe not, HOWEVER, if there were no violent films or video games, then it would probably be a lot easyer to notice these people before the do something unforgivable, and hence we could help them.

When all said and done its a lot harder to commit this sort of mass killing/wounding without a gun. Even it you have a PSP

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jinzai
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 04:04
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Matt Rock, I think it has everything to do with the source of authority. It would be okay, for example...for Michael Moore to march into K-Mart headquarters, and try to make them culpable, and to cheapen someone else's misery by asking for a refund on a bullet that, sadly...worked as advertised. It is even too much of a stretch to call them out because they sell ammunition. In the case of Columbine, the parents were out of touch with their children's lives, and also...a shotgun is not an appropriate gift to give a child without proper supervision, anyway.

I own some of the most violent games ever made. My children play them alot. (Only one minor left, but he is a kitty kat, really.) I talk to my children like they are people that matter to me. They are not my buddies, nor my property, either.

My experience tells me that people do not want to hear that they have not spent enough time with their children, spouses, parents, friends, etc. The tortured lives these criminals claim to have lived are no worse than the lives the rest of us live without resorting to violence.

Yes, I agree...people are too sensitive, and there is a spiral into the kind of existence that this poor soul had. My misery should not cost you anything at all, IMO.
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The crazy
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 04:24
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Quote: "but real unjustified killing (like illegal wars), "


um... aint that kind of talking abiout politics? and aint talking politics against the aup? and why aint I not saying aint every sentence?

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jinzai
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 05:09 Edited at: 15th Sep 2006 05:10
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No, that is talking about morals. Similarly, if I said that Tony Blair reminded me of C3PO, well..that is just mean, and true.

My opinion of US foreign policy, or some skirmish iin Uzbekistan, however...that is politics.
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Jeku
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 05:27
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Quote: "When all said and done its a lot harder to commit this sort of mass killing/wounding without a gun."


Don't bring gun control into this, because making something illegal doesn't stop the crime, obviously. Look at heroin, cocaine, and crystal meth, all illegal substances.

Funny how lawyers and politics always want to blame something for the way criminals behave. Sometimes they even go so far as to blame the victims. I honestly believe some people are born with something not right in their brain, most likely a physical issue, that makes them go off on social tangents. There is such a thing as a bad seed I believe.


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jinzai
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 05:53
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Jeku...I agree, with a twist. We are getting into the nature vs. nurture issue now. This is to me about the only true gray area there is. I do agree that there are strong correlations made to some genetic mechanisms being responsible for all sort of aberrant behavior, BUT...
...that is pushing personal responsibility away: just what we are complaining about here.

I can be better than my DNA because I am a conscious individual with a functioning moral compass that my parents thoughtfully gave me.
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Matt Rock
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 08:35
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Quote: "Not yet perhaps - just wait till they ban violent PC games ..."

Very true. Viva la resistance!

Quote: "Matt Rock, I think it has everything to do with the source of authority. It would be okay, for example...for Michael Moore to march into K-Mart headquarters, and try to make them culpable, and to cheapen someone else's misery by asking for a refund on a bullet that, sadly...worked as advertised. It is even too much of a stretch to call them out because they sell ammunition."

I don't get what you're getting at here, Michael Moore made a pretty valid point in Bowling for Columbine, except for the fact that he didn't mention that if this had happened in an inner-city setting no one would have discussed it. Anyway, I agree that BAD PARENTING is to blame. I deemed it necessary to put that all in caps lol, every time I say it, someone gets up-in-arms about it But parents don't want to take the blame for the stupid actions of their kids, and they don't want to be "oppressive" and not allow them access to games they shouldn't be playing. You should be able to tell if your kid is a flippin' psycho or not, and your kid has to have the IQ of a Q-Tip to go around killing people because he/ she saw it in a video game, imo anyway

At the end of the day, the guilty always look for someone to blame, and they don't want the blame to fall into their own laps, even though THEY are truly responsible. I agree with gun control, sure, but it won't make people stop being violent. At the same time anyone who thinks they need an AK47 to kill a deer should be locked away for life in an asylum, end of story. But making every game non-violent will only make other people (like me) more violent


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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 09:16
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Quote: "At the same time anyone who thinks they need an AK47 to kill a deer should be locked away for life in an asylum, end of story."


Guess it all depends on how bad a shot they are. Heck you don't need hand grenades to catch fish either but it sure is easier.

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Jeku
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 09:19 Edited at: 15th Sep 2006 09:19
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Quote: "Anyway, I agree that BAD PARENTING is to blame."


Easy way out. Just blame the parents. I mean, I'm sure Hitler's parents were just horrendous.


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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 09:33
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Quote: "Easy way out. Just blame the parents. I mean, I'm sure Hitler's parents were just horrendous. "


I believe parents are to blame more than any form of media, but the blame does not rest wholely with them ever. This blame ends though once the offender becomes an adult, then it is up to them to make choices in their own darn life. There are some exceptions in cases of extreme abuse contributing to a mental condition where I might still hold parents accountable after their child reaches adulthood.

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 09:47
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The parents are CERTAINLY more at fault than video games. A parent should know what games they're playing, know if their kid is mentally-stable enough to play a game (ie, they should know if their kid is easily influenced by media), and they should raise that kid to understand that violence in a game doesn't leave the game. If the parents aren't to blame, then who is? Because every study ever conducted by a reputable organization has clearly stated that games don't make people violent... not even kids. I was raised right I guess, as most of us on here were. To my knowledge, no one on here has ever run out and murdered anyone... except maybe Meg, I always wonder about him (jk!). I dunno, I've spent a lot of time thinking about this subject, it's why I always jump into the conversation when this topic comes up (and I've started it quite a few times myself), and for the life of me I can't think of anyone better to pin the blame on than parents. If video games make people violent, and they are (by far) the highest-grossing entertainment medium, then why aren't more kids doing this? I'll tell you why: the kids who are doing it are flippin' psycho. And the parents should know their kids are hellspawn, and should keep them away from violent games, pointy things, and objects that release other objects in straight lines at high speeds, like guns and staplers. I have a younger cousin named Casey, and she was a problem-child, and her parents didn't let her play video games with violence until she was old enough/ mature enough to do so, and look... no murders in her high school, caused by her anyway. And if the parents aren't completely guilty, they're without question partly to blame (in a majority sorta way).


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Agent Dink
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 09:50
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The only person to blame is the man who committed the crime. He not only had issues, he definitely didn't know how to deal with them. I'm sick of people passing the blame of a murder to other sources, like video games and movies. It's just the fact that this guy had a serious mental issue and he couldn't control it. He made terribly awful decisions, and he ended up paying for it. Though he wanted to go out in a hail of gunfire... just for that I'd make him die from something totally unrelated, just so he couldn't get the satisfaction.

It's just a shame that no one could have seen this coming and however many kids died, or were wounded, could not have been protected.

A man like that is one that I feel I wouldn't have much remorse shooting, and that's saying something as I totally hate hearing of violence in real life.

Sometimes the only way over a wall is to pile up enough bodies to climb over - Dave W.
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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 09:52
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Quote: "Though he wanted to go out in a hail of gunfire... just for that I'd make him die from something totally unrelated, just so he couldn't get the satisfaction."


Like an endless tape of Milli Vanilli

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jinzai
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Posted: 16th Sep 2006 14:55 Edited at: 17th Sep 2006 04:43
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The point that Moore was making by going into K-Mart headquarters was that K-Mart had culpability in the death and wounding of people at Columbine. What K-Mart sells has no connection to the incident, and it was at once unprofessional and unethical for him to do it. He asked for a refund. What is his basis for a refund? I am not sure what the valid point of that movie was, either. It was a tragedy with no clear single cause other than the actions of two boys. Period.

I agree about bad parenting, regardless of its state of capitalization. I part company with the notion that children should or shouldn't be playing violent games. My job as a parent is to provide my children with the emotional and intellectual tools to deal with the real world, which contained violence long before video games came along. Escapism is used by everyone, only the form is different. My children know the difference between reality and fantasy. They also know what is appropriate, and what is not. They also know about respecting the rights of others. More importantly, I know every aspect of their life that is relevant because they tell me...I do not even need to ask in most cases. There is much truth in the statement that a child will seek what you deny them. The concept that a game is good or bad is illogical and untrue. Things are things: they cannot be made to hold attributes that can only be applied to people. We make the games bad by saying they are, and denying them to children arbitrarily because of something that might happen in the future. Its silly.
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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 16th Sep 2006 14:58 Edited at: 16th Sep 2006 15:15
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Quote: "except maybe Meg, I always wonder about him"


It was strictly a political assassination. Leave the video games out of this.

EDIT:

Have you guys seen this guy's photo gallery? It simply screams "I have a problem!".



Gallery

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Jeku
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Posted: 16th Sep 2006 22:16
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It's gone now.


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 17th Sep 2006 00:11
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Quote: "Easy way out. Just blame the parents"


Well why not? Freud did it. So why can't we and then say we're smart?.

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indi
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Posted: 17th Sep 2006 09:27
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media is a weapon of mass distraction

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Steve J
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Posted: 17th Sep 2006 09:29
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That might as well be a weapon of mass destruction with the attention span of us americans

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Redmotion
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Posted: 17th Sep 2006 14:31
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I think of it like this - you all play games - MILLIONS of people play games everyday and these reports are few and far between. If there was link between violence and videogames then there would be chaos on the streets!!

This sort of news item is just the sad-excuses-for-politicians in the US trying to get attention from the media.

Cops could burst into a murder scene in America at the moment, see a games console switched on sitting in the corner of the room and put two and two together. It's that hysterical.

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Dazzag
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Posted: 17th Sep 2006 16:40 Edited at: 17th Sep 2006 16:41
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Of course it's the parents/ guardians. I mean sure you can have a very small percentage of people who have basically something mentally wrong with them (that isn't caused by being around the parents 24/7 for years), but all you have to do is look at a chav boy and his dad (as males are massively more violent) and notice how much alike they are. It's like Austin Powers with Minime! All the hatred (racism, sexism, every bloodyism) just seeps into the kid like a sponge. I, for example, know almost instinctively that Cardis are as tight as a duck's a**e (my uncle being one), so I will never buy them a beer Luckily most of absorb the good stuff as well, which is probably why we don't have nutters running around on a stupid scale.

Well always a silver lining I suppose; at least they don't really bother with rock music anymore. I wonder if those mothers ever actually listened to Kiss? I mean I love them, but a hell of a lot of their music is more girly (avoid any homosexual references there...) than most of the "nice" stuff out there It's not as if Beth is Satan's right hand girl or anything.

Cheers

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 17th Sep 2006 16:44
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Which is why its all pathetic, there are sickos/murderers, there always have been sickos/murderers and there always will be, society has its influences, but a cognitivist should tell you that its just ill-cognitions.

As for the politicians, if they really cared, they wouldn't go for a silly and easy scape goat that won't solve the problem but let people believe that it is so, if they really cared, they'd put more money into the policeforce, attempt to reduce gun culture and dig out every dirty member of the government and improve the legal system.

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Steve J
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Posted: 17th Sep 2006 19:34 Edited at: 17th Sep 2006 19:35
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If you take away my gun, you will have to die trying. When I lived in an apartment, it stopped 2 break-ins! 2! I didn't shoot them, but having a gun is powerful enough to make thieves think twice. I am also in the NRA (card holder), and go hunting for fun. A good majority down south is the same. Just because they like hunting, have guns, and want to KEEP the guns, doesn't mean they are dangerous. Most Gangsta f00s cant shoot ass raping worth, and I could nail them in the balls by the time they got their pistol to work. It isn't gun culture, but you all are slightly biased. Video Games DO affect kids. These kids that commit crimes now, play GTA when they are 9. They are still really impressionable. But then it is the parents fault for allowing them to play. But its the stores fault for selling the game. But its really the governments fault. They should be stricter on parents who let kids play these games. I REALLY believe that no kid under 11 should be allowed to play M games. No kid under 7 should be allowed to play teen games. No kid under 11 should be allowed to play AO. Those should be laws, and if a teacher, or someone found out a kid was playing those, the parents should pay. I really believe in child impressionability. When they are a teen they are also impressionable. Look at what modern films, and rap did to them. Its near impossible to find a popular kid that doesn't speak gangsta style.

My Opinion is void in Minnesota, Iowa, and Connecticut.

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 18th Sep 2006 07:23
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Quote: "Its near impossible to find a popular kid that doesn't speak gangsta style. "


Most people do that as a joke nowadays as far as I can tell, I have never witnessed anyone (outside of the inner city at least) talking like that and being serious.

Quote: "If you take away my gun, you will have to die trying."


I would be quite angry if guns were banned myself. I am not a violent person. I hate how the government pushes the military. I'm sick of hearing about wars. I am not opposed to hunting, but I certainly wouldn't want to shoot an animal. I am most defintely tired of hearing guns used for crime. But if the government took away guns we no longer have anything to protect ourselves. Illegalizing guns will not solve a problem. It will only make it worse. There are many times when guns in the right hands have stopped crime. *see SteveJ's example* If guns are illegal it won't matter to criminals, they will still find ways to get guns.

If my house was about to be robbed, or if I were about to be mugged, or on the more extreme side, if my country were to ever get invaded or, if our own government has some master plan to turn us into a police state, or any other outlandish thing like that happens, I will not be opposed to using my gun in self defence, and the defense of others, and in the more extreme cases, I want it to be a very large gun.

Sometimes the only way over a wall is to pile up enough bodies to climb over - Dave W.
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Jeku
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Posted: 18th Sep 2006 07:27
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Agrees with Steve J. I will never give up my guns, as taking them from me is a complete and utter waste of time.


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Hobgoblin Lord
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Location: Fall River, MA USA
Posted: 18th Sep 2006 08:41
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I don't Own a gun and nevr have, but I will be damned if I would sit bye and let them be taken away from others. In fact the day they banned them would be the day I would make sure to get one for things would be far more dangerous.

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