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Geek Culture / very casual question, i have 50K$, so....game publisher

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Supremacy
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 00:35
right...this is very off topic and just some lights on the subject, a friend of mine has some spare cash, 50,000 dollars, he was thinking on building an enterprise, he wants to make a game's publisher, like reflexive arcade for example, is it worth it ? if so...where should he start ? and what do you think meets best the needs of developers, whats behind of being a publisher ?

so....where should my friend start hun ?

keep this serious please...(who knows youll be publishing in the future trough my "friend" )

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Alquerian
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 01:04
The casual gaming market is becoming big business. Popcap, Pogo and yes even Microsoft have their dirty little mits in the casual gaming market. It is a fun and instantly thrilling market to be in, however as I suggested the big dogs are encroaching this market because they see the potential in Casual Advergaming or Casual Game Branding (beer run and that oxy 10 game).

$50g isn't chump change, it is a serious investment however companies like popcap and Microsoft invest millions into this industry. If you/him are going to enter the casual gaming market, do it in a different way. Do it in a way which takes as much competition out of the equation as possible. Offer something new and intuitive which others do not and you can find success. When buying software and equipment $50gs can be gone in a matter of months, so spend it wisely and look for fresh meat. Hiring professional artists and animators will eat you alive, as will hiring many professional programmers.

If you/him enter into this market, do so with as much education and information as possible. I have seen others with oodles of cash, no knowledge and high expectations. This is a recipe for disaster. High expectations are nearly ALWAYS misplaced when there is no working knowledge of what is required to get the job done. I could discuss this subject for hours, however I feel I have made ample suggestions.

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit." - Aristotle
Matt Rock
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 02:37
$50k is a lot of money, unless you're seriously rich. Do you have any idea what my crappy little indie studio could do with $50k? Takeover the world. Yes, we could conquer all humans and turn you into slaves. Okay, maybe not that much, but seriously, $50k is a lot of money and if I had even a fifth of that my life would be changed dramatically. Anyway, take your time and seriously weigh your options here. If you want to do this for fun, and not just as an investment, then by all means, join the fray. But if you're doing this with the sole intention of turning a profit, and you're not 150% ready and willing to lose money on it, then I'd look for an alternative method of getting rid of that money, like, say, giving some of it to me


"In an interstellar burst, I'm back to save the universe"
Supremacy
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 02:40
im really serious about this, ill be gathering some resources, but what i would really need would be someone behind the scene, an ex-publisher or someone at a high position a a big game developing company...

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Phaelax
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 02:45
spare cash? If I had that much spare cash I'd just buy land and sit on it for awhile.

Personally, I think a game publisher is a risky business. Hundreds of games are released every year without anyone every hearing anything about them. If he pays to put out these games and they don't make any return, he's kinda screwed. Just don't rush into anything. Study the market over the next year and do as much research as inhumanly possible!

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Bahamut
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 03:10
If it's "spare cash" am I right in assuming s/he doesn't stand to lose alot if it fails? Or is it a serious investment?

IceBound Melodic rock/metal band with loads of lead guitar, clean female vocals, and more guitars! What more could you want?
jinzai
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 05:32
There is nothing casual about that amount. The companies above are only a few of the ones out there now. A lot of them are using Flash to make simple RPGs. AdventureQuest is one that comes to mind.

Popcap is an excellent and easy to use framework. A little bloated for what you get, but I liked it. Their approach was to create a framework, a few games, and then put that on-line. The community has received it well, and returned some good games. They are similar to this, but on a smaller, simpler scale.

If I had 50k, I'd start off by creating a rather large network to play games on. Then, I'd recruit some gamers. Then, I'd develop, but since you want to publish, then you go get games for your team to pound on. At the same time, you could lease time on your system. (The storefront is a leasable gaming facility.) Also, this technology is often used in education, television, movies, all of it. The games do not have to be your sole source of income.

I agree that you should not try to slay Goliath in his arena, but the Internet distribution channel helps level the field. Also it takes away much of the investment in shrinkwrapping, and a lot of the attendant support infrastructure is unnecessary. I would say to find the upside, and ply it to your advantage...besides, those guys do not worry about us guys at all. Microsoft in particular helps the indy scene. Bungie certainly was helped! (@Matt Rock - BTW, your rap sounds a lot like theirs!)

There are many games that were ultimately profitable that you will never hear of in the main stream. What I mean is that you only have to break even to be successful as a business. You do not need to publish the next Game of The Year, just one that gets you to next year.
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 06:09
Be careful with that money. $50k can get sucked away very quickly in the video game industry. I've worked out several business models based on the assumption that I had $50k and I borrowed $50k, and my determination was that I had to turn a profit in 6 months or I would go under. That's assuming you have a real operation, you're paying lease space, electricity, paychecks, and for some top notch computers and software. Turning a profit in 6 months is not even a realistic approach. So now I've changed my plan. I'll try and turn a profit first before I even start such a crazy thing.

$50k is a lot if you're not having to pay for all of those things. I guess it just depends on your situation in life. Not everyone has to pay for food and family and vehicles and such. For me, part of that $50k would have to go toward living expenses, and that's not cheap.

If it's carefully managed, you could do tremendous things with that much money. But, like I've said, it could just as easily get sucked away. The owner of said business needs to have mad skills. It's impossible to hire your way to success, all that will happen is the money will vanish.

Good luck, for you and your friend.


Come see the WIP!
jinzai
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 06:24
@Cash Curtis II - Yes, I see that very clearly. Part of a successful formula is to have finished assets at the outset, because that gets money coming in right away. You know that Popcap was insanely profitable in three months, but that was then, this is now.

Speaking of models. What about the development model? That is a good area to spend some time working smarter vs. harder(more expensively). [What would those guys at Hornstein do?] I notice that you are using that old-school model, CashCurtisII...you are doing all the coding/design...and like me, you are using TGC assets. That is a big money saver, there...artists are expensive.

You should absolutely get your free subscription to GameDeveloper. That is a trade mag, and it is pretty nice.
indi
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 06:24
I would invest that money into property and double or triple it in a few years if the right location was found. This way you can subdivide the property into studios and have other crazy computer companies pay for your investment. Taking a risk on a game title doesnt make sense with that kind of cash unless you had a killer game that rivaled the best of the best.

Steve J
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 06:26 Edited at: 15th Sep 2006 06:27
Actually in the US the real estate market it crashing. Houses have gone from 600,000 for 4 bedroom houses to 300,000 where I live. My cousins in Phoenix say the same thing, and my friends in Hawaii say the same thing. (In Hawaii the drop is more gradual because rich people live there=P)

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 07:20
I dunno, real estate is still going up around where I live (Ohio).

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Jeku
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 07:46
Real estate is crazy here too.

But honestly if I had $50k and wanting to start a publishing biz, I'd scour the net for the most promising indie games, offer to buy them out or cash advance + royalties, and sell them that way like Popcap games.

Agent Dink
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 09:43
If I had $50,000.... I dunno. I think I'd hoard it and let it grow somewhere... Then when I'm 80, it will be at 1 million, and I can retire happy....

Sometimes the only way over a wall is to pile up enough bodies to climb over - Dave W.
Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 09:48
Quote: "Actually in the US the real estate market it crashing. Houses have gone from 600,000 for 4 bedroom houses to 300,000 where I live. My cousins in Phoenix say the same thing, and my friends in Hawaii say the same thing. (In Hawaii the drop is more gradual because rich people live there=P)"


Real estate is dropping almost everywhere, though I have not seen a 50% drop more like a 20% drop which is still huge.

Quote: "I dunno, real estate is still going up around where I live (Ohio)."


Not suprised by this, my drummer moved out to Ohio and bought a house there just about 2 years ago for 88,000, the same size house (4 bedrooms 1 1/2 bath 2.25 acres) here was about 460,000 here. I looked at alot of listings in Ohio and thought they were worth making a long term investment in.

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indi
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 09:57
MY place goes up 30k in 9 months becuase of the location to the city.

Supremacy
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 10:50
i can invest the money on real estate because it's not mine, ok ill open the game, i guess ill have to end up sending some mails to tgc to se if they give me a help, in return i could sponsor a next big compo publishing the winner,

also i would love to publish claymore island from fallout...

the thing is im talking about publishing but i have no publishing

i have a very wealthy uncle and coisin, theyre buisness experts that run an international company, basicly, my uncle likes me a lot, told me to creat a profitable buisness model of the indi publishing ideia i exposed to him, and if the buisness model is good, theyll come up with 50k, the only thing bad about this is that i will only own 10% of the company, but hey.....10% out of nothing in a profitable buisness ??? good way to start hun xD , i fell just like i won the loterie, but i really need to get this pointing somewhere, cause in 2 or 3 months from now, if i dont have a buisness model, many developers interested and ready to publish with me, many contacts and marketing spots/resources.....well...ill probably had letten sleep away from me the biggest oportunity in my life

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Tinkergirl
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 12:03
Developers want two things: to get paid, and for lots of people to play their games. (Not nessesarily in that order.)

As a publisher, your primary focus should be looking into distribution methods, payment models, and publicity. Without publicity, you're stuffed. You'd be best looking into the business side of the industry - read up on Gamasutra (they have producer and publisher information and articles) and in things like Develop magazine. As has been mentioned, you'd be better looking into the aspects of the industry that the big boys have ignored up till now. The internet will be a godsend for both distribution and payment models.

While I'm not a publisher (and I've scowled at them behind their backs for what seemed like un-fun decisions) what they do is very difficult and can make the difference between a very popular, and successful game, and a 'cult classic'. Research like mad - look into all the payment and distribution models out there - from selling games on Ebay, to demos with unlockable content, to subscription services, even to bundling packages with another service or product. Very best of luck - you'll need it.

Lukas W
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 12:06
if i had $50k i would get girls.

Supremacy
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 12:13
thanks tinkergirl, do you guys have more ideias ? ideias people, come on, youre the developers !!! what do you expect from a publisher, what do you want out there ??

i really need to elaborate something and then ask you for opinion...

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Dave J
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 12:50
Quote: "Real estate is dropping almost everywhere"


Not down here. The house I'm currently living in cost about $250,000 five years ago, but lately houses on this street have been selling for upwards of $750,000 and they're a lot smaller/rundown then this one. Of course, people aren't so much buying the house as they are the land these days.


"Computers are useless, they can only give you answers."
Supremacy
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 13:07
this thread is not really about real estate you know... :S

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Redmotion
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 13:31
$50k is diddly squat. Speak to an investment broker or financial adviser is my advice. There tonnes of easier ways of turning $50k into a $100k than making video games. Just buy a house or a flat!

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Supremacy
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 13:40
but i dont want to make video games, i wanna sell video games !

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RUCCUS
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 14:35
Im not saying I know anything about all of this money gibberish, but;

In my mind, I think you'd want to go into the race running. You should work on establishing a name for yourself right now, make a site, put a bunch of quality free games on it (that means you and maybe some buddies willing to work for free in the sight of a good paying job in the future have to get to grips with game making and design), kind of like miniclip.com. You do have 50k, so maybe put 10k aside for things you feel you need a proffessional to do, like the site design and some of the graphics for your games.

Get the site popular, but not just as one of those "coffee break" sites that you play games on while your boss is gone, thats the wrong audience to get, instead look into getting other gaming and game developing information on the site as well, perhaps more so than actual games. Sort of like IGN.com, but dont bother with cheats as they;ve pretty got that market cornered. Pretty much you've got to think of something that gamers would want to read everyday, just like the thousands of gamers that go to ign to read up on the latest games. Once the site gets as popular as it can, then I'd suggest putting 5k away for non-company related things, and spend the rest on making 1 game. Top notch graphics, awesome game design, stuff that's cutting edge, though in reality it doesnt even have to be cutting edge as long as it attracts some attention. Look at Bungie with Halo 1, it's graphics were complete crap, the voices were all done by the same person, but Microsoft loved the idea and bought it, from a small little company.

THEN, assumming you've got an awesome idea on your hands, try and get a big company like MS$ or E3 interested in buying it, let them buy it and pay you the royalties, but dont let them buy your company. Now you've got a game thats being sold on X-Box, assuming its a big hit like Halo 2 or close to it you can set up a fan base for people to talk about cheats, clans, whatever. Bungie's fan base is HUGE, and its still expanding. With all that extra traffic and a console game under your belt, plus the cash you've gotten from the game (Didnt Halo 1 alone make 40 billion or something?) you'll be able to start hiring lots of developers and graphic artists and all of the rest that are needed to make a game, and you're on your way to hitting it big.

Thats almost exactly what Bungie did IIRC, you just cant get too cocky. I know I've been using Bungie a lot as an example but they're a good one, its important to keep your workplace fun though, look at Bungie's videos of inside the HQ, its like a gamer's dream in there. Bean bag chairs in the lunch room, arcade machines everywhere, enough pop and candy and - redbull - to satisfy any programmer's sugar cravings, and an all around fun and laid back feeling. Not so stressfull like EA, where the only thing that matters is sitting in your cubicle and finishing the game or your fired.

ANYWAYS.... like I said I dont know anything about starting companies and whatnot, but that seems like a logical way of doing things to me.

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Van B
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 14:50
50k is really not a lot of money, really that's 1 programmers salary for a year, and a PC for him/her to program on. Now that's assuming you could even convince a pro-coder to join your outfit.

I think you need a tiny little team, and try to make an innovative puzzle game, like Bejeweled. Then spend a ton of cash marketing the hell out of it. Once you have an income from 1 game you can expand as your success affords you - but I doubt anyone would disagree that starting out super-small is the way to go, you don't want to be paying salaries until you have something making you enough money to cover it, and even then it should be freelance rates.

The game itself that you should try and come up with to sell in the first place needs to be special - it could easily be a tired old gameplay system, but it would need something to set it apart, and attract female office workers as they're the sort of people who buy these online puzzles. Maybe some sort of game involving cute furry animals, or candy, candy might be a good angle because people must be sick of looking at jewels. Different shaped candies in a drop down sorta puzzle game, the sort of thing that looks bright and colourful, and can be marketted really easily.

Don't forget physics too - there's a lot of ground to be covered with physics games, especially puzzlers, and having something like Armidillo Run would be a solid project, people are getting more and more into these games, and the media burdon is practically non existant!.

''Stick that in your text and scroll it!.''
indi
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 15:12
Why not conduct some research into your competitors and the marketplace as well as previous history of now shelf companies that got liquidated due to bad management or lack of profit and capital.
Making an investment like property allows a company to have a valuable asset.
The asset can offset earnings to reduce taxes.
This asset can also assure loans down the track as you have something substantial to gain finance.
It also allows a stream of income if you rent parts of your premises.
Think of your demographics, one is the end customer, the other is to attract new game developers.
IMHO, asking a question like that on a forum clearly shows the depth of thought to the idea, however thats how all ideas start.

Dazzag
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 15:20
Quote: "50k is really not a lot of money, really that's 1 programmers salary for a year"
Actually that doesn't even cover entry level salary for a programmer where I work. But surely you could form a company that basically publishes games that software houses create. ie. pay them a small deposit then pay them some more when deliver the goods, and a small percentage of the sales. You do the rest. If we are talking *small* publishing house then we are talking bargain bucket type games, so not major amounts of outlay I would imagine. I can't imagine you would be able to afford dedicated programmers to literally work for you as real staff (office, 9-5 etc). Even our work experience kids get about $30k.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Supremacy
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 16:57
but youre getting it all wrong guys !!!! i DONT wanna make games, i just want to sell them, thats what a publisher do right ? just like a destributer, i wanna sell games, just like pogo, divo and reflexivearcade.com do, have a lot of games from independent dev teams and sell them to general public, do the marketing, sell the game, publish, not produce !!! just publish, like reflexive arcade.com, do you understand what i want better now ? can someone help me on that ?

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Fallout
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 17:05
What sorta sales system would you consider then? Full on, boxed CD, distributed to HMV,Game,other high street stores. Or full on boxed, sold online and via Amazon, Play.com etc. or just digital sales via the internet?


Van B
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 17:15
It's a publishers job to decide what they want to publish.

You can't just wait on people making great games then asking you to help publish them - you'd have to consider what will make you, and your teams money. It's a nice idea - personally I'd rather deal with a small but honest company, but I think you'll find that you often have to correct things, like inapropriate content, horrible bugs, stuff like that so you don't make a bad name for yourself through some noobs dodgy game.

Thing is, it's not a case of contacting indi developers either, because they'd assume the worst from any publisher contact. When you throw a game out there, and have it appear on freeware websites, you just don't expect a serious publishing offer - a PC Format coverdisk feature yes, but unless they pimp their games they shy away from things like publishing deals. Heck some dodgy publishing company from Khakistan (or wherever) wanted Stoked, gimme a break!

''Stick that in your text and scroll it!.''
Supremacy
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 17:23
Quote: "they'd assume the worst from any publisher contact"


thats why i want to be in the scene, im damm honest and transparent, hell i love this stuff, this spirit, im 20 years old, dreamer and with money, i dont care about making millions !! i just wanna do something that i like a lote, that is stable, and that helps others achieve their dreams, i would never betray a developer, and thats the image that i want to achieve !!

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Tinkergirl
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 17:24 Edited at: 15th Sep 2006 17:26
There are two styles of publisher, you see - there's the publisher that a dev team goes to with a demo/tech-demo and a design, and gets paid a wage to make that game to a deadline. Then there's the publisher that gets sent finished games and then sells those and gives a percentage to the dev team.

The problem is, that few people make whole, commercialy viable games without being paid a wage to do so. Take a look around - there's loads of developers here, and only the select few have managed to make a publishable game because they're not being paid a wage to do so. (Some do - I'm specifically stating that, because otherwise I'll get accused of blanket statements )

Also, people who have a finished, commercially viable game to send to publishers (i.e. the kind of dev you seem to want to deal with) have many many options open to them. They could go to any number of publishers, finding one that will do them a deal they like, have the infrastructure to support their game, and that they've heard of. They're in a fairly powerful position, because they've made the game already. The publisher can't issue deadlines, or get out clauses, or (usually) demand certain game decisions be made ("I want more helicopters!")

RUCCUS's suggestion is good and sound - make a name for yourself first, distribute free games and publisise like bonkers. Then, trawl sites like these and gamedev for teams who look to be close to finishing their games and talk to them about publishing. Look into what legal documents would be required (get documents for everything - everything in writing).

I still think you might be better off thinking of a novel or unusual way to distribute and sell games - there's a lot of publishers out there with a lot more money than you.

[edit] Stable? Oh no - the games industry isn't stable. Go into something safe like dentistry or garbage collection, if you want stable.

Dazzag
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 17:34
Quote: "novel or unusual way to distribute and sell games "
Not so novel as it once was, but I believe phone/PDA games are probably the easiest and most profitable way for a new software house/ publishing company to make it in games these days. I mean it used to take a teenager in school about 3 weeks to make the biggest games of the day back when I was a kid (no joke; look up Manic Miner for example), but these days that is seriously not going to happen for much bigger than a freebie on a cover disk really. But phone and PDA games are a lot easier (most are basically at an Atari ST/ Amiga type level at the minute) and quicker to program, and the market is growing. Look at phone jingles. Those people are worth *so* much money, mainly because people who never really were into IT stuff *will* pay stupid amounts of money for seriously small amounts of data, just so they can have the latest J-Lo song on their phone Same thing is happening with games IMHO.

So basically make games for phones. Couple it up with online gambling on your phone and you are gold. Seriously. I just need to get my ass in gear....

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Supremacy
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 17:43
Quote: "make a name for yourself first, distribute free games and publisise like bonkers. "


hmmm...i like this ideia, thats why i wanna tag along with banshee first, would be providence this need of them for a server, im willing to pay that from my own pocket !

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Supremacy
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Posted: 16th Sep 2006 18:07
i finally know where to go start and my first aprouch has a publisher will be a freeware games site. ill eventually open a new thread about his in some time from now on. thanks for all of your help and ideias, youre the best, big hug

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Veeman
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i copied ur addy and ill send u a message see if ur up and runnin
when ive written somert of resonable quallity

(x me fingers for ya)

To go faster than the speed of light means u would go back in time......but going back in time would slow u down.......wot dose it mean?--------22-5-5-13-1-14

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