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Geek Culture / Innespace Dolphin -- Ultimate Watersports anyone?

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 08:47
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The Innespace Dolphin is, for lack of a better phrase, the coolest looking water vehicle I've ever seen. It handles like a dolphin, sort of... you have rudder pedals like in a plane, and you can control the side fins with two joysticks. It has a 110 hp engine that makes it capable of reaching 30 MPH (about 30 knots) and it can do barrel rolls, it can fully sumberge... all kinds of cool stuff! But apparently they aren't thinking about selling this awesome beast. So I wonder if I could go about building one myself? What sort of engine would this thing use, that's submersible? Anyway, thought I'd share this with you all, thing seems pretty dang nifty imo


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Saikoro
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 09:25
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And how would you know what a dolphin handles like?


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Matt Rock
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 09:27
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well this one time at Sea World... um... I ate pretzels. Yes. Pretzels. And they were... salty. Yes. Salty.


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Saikoro
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 09:34
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There is a red box with a white X at the top corner of this window. I will press it, and not return back to this thread.


But seriously, that looks like it could be a lot of fun, probably uncomfortable though.


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Matt Rock
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 09:51
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Did you see the video on it? The one at Discovery Science is way better. The thing is so friggin' cool! It goes under water, and jumps right back out, about five feet into the air! I want one so bad Has anyone on here been on a jetski? Can those things go under water like they do in the movies, and still work when they float to the surface? If they can, I could buy the engine of one of those things and build this myself, if they decide to not sell them commercially. This of course all depends on me becoming, I dunno, a millionaire or hundred-thousand-aire first


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Van B
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 11:46
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You'd need a lot more power than a jetski engine.

Jetski's certainly can dunk under water, but you'd have to jump and dive, then the jetski would bob back upto the surface again - you'd need a lot more power to actually control the thing under water for any length of time. Jetski's don't need much power at all, because the craft is so light, your probably talking about the sort of power you'd get from a leaf blower.

A craft like that would be amazing though, always wanted a boat of some description, there's a long history of fishermen on my dad's side of the family, and a long history of sealife bothering and dolphin impersonating on my mothers side. It's in my blood.

On another fishy note - anyone watch the new series of Deadliest Catch?, that show rocks, it's like reality TV but with the real possibility that folk could die. In the last series 5 fishermen died - I'm not morbid, I just appreciate the *true* reality in that particular show.

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Dave J
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 12:54
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Quote: "because the craft is so light, your probably talking about the sort of power you'd get from a leaf blower."


Yeah, those damn leaf blowers keep propelling me around my yard.


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Matt Rock
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 16:42
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They say in the video that it's a 110 horsepower engine... I should research the engine itself. I want to come up with precisely how much money it would cost to build one of these. What makes a jetski engine capable of working underwater?

I should watch deadliest catch, I've avoided it thus far because I didn't think it would be that hardcore. It's about time someone's made a REAL reality show


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Van B
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 16:56
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A jetski engine concentrates on forcing water through itself, rather than other propulsion methods - this way there's no dangerous blade, it's all just a spray of water. Because of that you get pure propulsion because the force is more constant. Like if you went in the air, you'd still be propelled to some extent, same with extreme angles in the water. With a traditional propeller based engine, the vehicle really has to stay stable otherwise it looses power very quickly. Notice how jetski's accelerate really quickly, and seem not to care about what orientation their in when accelerating. You could point a jetski straight down, and if the motor was powerful enough it would shoot straight down, even if the jet end is sticking out of the water - but the small motors are the only thing stopping you riding underwater, save for the whole oxygen and breathing thing. Water is sucked through the engine and thrown out the back like a jet.

The forces dragging you back up are more powerfull than the jetski engine, so you'd need a nice big jetski type engine (maybe from a small speedboat) to get anywhere.

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Van B
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 17:05
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Ahh, just checked the specs, seems the wings specifically keep it under the water, so it might just work on a plain old 2-stroke Jetski motor.

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 17:23
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I didn't know that... I saw them in movies, where a bunch of army guys have jetskis underwater and they unlatch them and drive them to the surface, but I figured this was just "Hollywood magic" and irl they'd stop working if they went underwater, like a normal boat's engine would. Knowing that they wouldn't makes me think I should find the most powerful jetski around, rip it's engine out, and slap it into my own home-made Dolphin If I could do this as cheap as possible, I could sell the plans for it online to people who want to make one of their own, hehe. This idea keeps getting cooler and cooler!

So I guess I should compile a shopping list of sorts and figure out how much this thing would cost to build. I know it'll need a super-powerful engine, some sort of oxygen scrubber intake or oxygen tanks, and I need to figure out what material I should use for both the chassis and the hull (body) of the craft. The part that I think will probably be the harest to get will be the canopy. I like the idea of having 360 degrees of vision, but where do you get a cockpit canopy like that? Did they have it special-made or something?

Okay, so, the shopping list so far includes a 1200cc Yamaha Waverunner engine for $1299, from a [url=http://www.atvparts.biz/plugins/MivaMerchants/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=Jetski&Category_Code=jets] website I just found after doing a quick search. And that's just the engine... so already I know this would be expensive to build. Yep, this is going to be waiting until I have a ton of money lol.


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Fallout
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 17:28
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Well, we all know flipper lives in a world full of wonder. I just hope the dude doesn't roll the top back on that thing to wave to the sealife.


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Jeku
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Posted: 16th Sep 2006 05:00
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Quote: "I want to come up with precisely how much money it would cost to build one of these."


Start with an engineering degree. Seriously


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Matt Rock
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Posted: 16th Sep 2006 08:09
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lol it's not THAT complicated $50 says that with the right materials I could make one of these, no problem. I don't understand why an engineering degree would be necessary for something like this... I'm not making it fly, all it is is a boat that goes, oh, 15-25 feet underwater *at most*. And don't forget, I designed the go plane


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Jeku
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Posted: 16th Sep 2006 10:05
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Alright, if you think it's easy, go ahead. Just let me sit back and wait until you realize the difficulty in it. It's more difficult than building a boat, by the way.


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Fallout
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Posted: 16th Sep 2006 12:21
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I'm looking forward to the test videos. I anticipate a few problems with the water tight canopy. Make sure it slides on and off easily, cos you're gonna wanna get out quick when you're sitting on the bottom of the lake and its filling with the wet stuff.


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Matt Rock
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Posted: 16th Sep 2006 18:48
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I know that Jake, I'm not saying it'll be easy, but I'm definitely saying I can do it. I foresee serious headaches with it, but they'll be worth it imo. It won't be as complicated as, say, designing a bridge or something. I just need to understand more about the engine... that's the part that I'm having trouble with. But if I can work that out, I could build this in about two or three months with a lil' help from my friends

I should definitely record everything... probably some laughs there Obviously I wouldn't get in and go underwater right away... everything will be tested thoroughly, in multiple stages, as you should do with any project like this. If I build this and it works, you guys will owe me a "good job!" and without sarcasm! lol

The only problem I'm having with it is the materials involved. I just need to work out what to build it out of. It won't be as pretty as the Innespace Dolphin, but it'll be seaworthy, and I'll bet anyone money that if I had the right materials and a few of my friends helping me, I could make this thing water-tight... no leaks, science fine-tuned baby


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Jeku
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Posted: 16th Sep 2006 22:14
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Just make sure you don't get in this over your head.

Bwahaha.


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Matt Rock
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Posted: 17th Sep 2006 04:55
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lol I'm totally involved now I want to build this just so I can have accomplished something that makes you proud of me lol. I'll be smart about it. It'll need oxygen obviously, and for the first few runs to be sure it's watertight I'll probably be wearing breathing apparatus to be on the safe side But I'm having another issue that I need to work out... where am I going to use this thing? I'm not going to drive to Long Island and go out exploring in the Atlantic lol. My best bet would probably be to test it in the fingerlakes, but bah, I hate driving up there lol. What I need is a friend with a pool... place temporary ballasts on it and sink it with no one inside to test the hull's integrity


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Agent Dink
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Posted: 19th Sep 2006 05:41
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Matt, thats the craziest thing I have ever heard, but I wanna see those videos, so good luck!!

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 19th Sep 2006 05:49
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Quote: "$50 says that with the right materials I could make one of these, no problem"


I'll double that wager by building a time-machine using only a 3 ring binder, an old mouse pad, and a jar of mayonnaise.

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 19th Sep 2006 08:12
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Throw in a potato to power it and I think you are onto something Megaton.

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 19th Sep 2006 14:32 Edited at: 19th Sep 2006 14:43
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Well that's what the mayonnaise is for see...

You spread it over the mouse pad, then you rub the mouse pad as hard as you can against the binder for 20-30 minutes untill it creates a rift in time itself.

Give it a shot Matt, once you've finished building your uber whale-torpedo-jetboat.

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BatVink
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Posted: 19th Sep 2006 15:46
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Here's a bit of history for you...

The biggest problem with submersibles was making them heavy enough to sink, and powerful enough to get back up again. If you get it wrong, you never resurface

It took a very average person to work out how to resolve this problem, and in the process make sea-bed investigation infinteley more possible. He simply came up with the inverse design of a plane. As long as a sub-surface vehicle with inverted wings moves forward, it's capable of travelling downwards. Because these vehicles are lighter than water, they can come back up with no power at all if necessary. Granted, you may get problems with nitrogen compression, but you can at least guarantee to surface again.

I'm guessing this uses the same theory, and as such power consumption isn't as great as you may think.



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Dave J
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Posted: 19th Sep 2006 15:47
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Quote: "You spread it over the mouse pad, then you rub the mouse pad as hard as you can against the binder for 20-30 minutes untill it creates a rift in time itself."


Tried it. It's not as easy as it sounds.


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Matt Rock
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Posted: 19th Sep 2006 15:58
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There's a minor problem though: money. This thing will be way more expensive to build than I first anticipated. The engine, an almost identical 110hp Yamaha that I found online for $4729.99, believe it or not, is the cheapest component. And the canopy is next to impossible to find as well. grr, I want one though! I've already figured out the rough draft for the hull's design and a really simple ballast system with dead weight for "emergency blow" situations in case I need to lose a ****load of weight in a big hurry. But ack, there's no point in building this thing if I can't see the water and it can't be boxy, like car windows, because it needs to be aerodynamic to a degree to be able to perform all of the wacky rolls and stuff. Blast! I'll not be stopped though dag nabbit, I will most definitely figure this out


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Van B
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Posted: 19th Sep 2006 16:42
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Is there any indication of what these cost, or will cost?

The 2 seater version would be great fun, I'm guessing at least $50,000 a pop for those - or about 1/3rd of an off-the-shelf OCC chopper. Yeah I have a wishlist too .

It's a shame Last of the Summer Wine doesn't get aired in the US, there's at least one episode that would help Matt a great deal.

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BatVink
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Posted: 19th Sep 2006 17:26
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Quote: "and a really simple ballast system with dead weight for "emergency blow" situations in case I need to lose a ****load of weight in a big hurry"


I think your design has gone off-course there. The machine probably exerts most of it's effort staying underwater, and resurfaces like a rubber duck in a bath.



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Peter H
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Posted: 19th Sep 2006 18:02 Edited at: 19th Sep 2006 18:04
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matt, in all reality i think it would be cheaper/safer/easier/and more probable for you to pay those people to make you one.

unless of course you happen to have about 4 engineering degrees that you've been hiding up your sleeve...

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 19th Sep 2006 18:32
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The ballast system is used on the dolphin as well, according to the discovery channel special they aired about it. It's just some weights that it can drop to surface extremely fast.

it would be safer and easier to pay them to build a dolphin for me... but they won't do it. They aren't selling these to the general public, so they're forcing my hand lol. Unfortunately, they haven't said how much it would cost if they did sell it, but I'm sure it would be cheaper to build it yourself.

Another thing... this isn't going under water for extended periods of time. It's mostly a surface vehicle that can go underwater to build up some pressure so it can shoot back out of it... it'll only be underwater for a few seconds at most, maybe a full minute if I got really crazy. If it were a proper submarine, I wouldn't even think about building it... that would be certain death lol. This is going to be complicated, but well within my realm of capability I think. And it'll be safety tested to no end before I use it for fun.

The price is seriously the only thing restricting me from building this. The design isn't as complicated as it looks, and I know what components I'll need (except I can't find prices for the oxygen tanks... I have a price for the CO2 scrubber though, that's $299 for a scrubber with a cheap filter and a six-hour usage life, for a space equal to the interior I've designed. And the dang canopy is killing me, I can't find one anywhere. That would need to be custom-built and I don't even know where to start on trying to find someone to do that (the canopy is the most crucial component imo). This project will take a few years to make, I'm thinking


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Fallout
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Posted: 19th Sep 2006 19:53
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Quote: "It's a shame Last of the Summer Wine doesn't get aired in the US"


No, no. Really, it's not. Not unless you hate Americans with an inhuman level of passion.


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Jeku
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Posted: 19th Sep 2006 20:28 Edited at: 19th Sep 2006 20:28
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Quote: "The price is seriously the only thing restricting me from building this."


Yah, and the price is seriously the only thing restricting me from building a space shuttle to Mars

Not trying to be a jerk, but I hope you didn't believe your mom when she told you "If you put your mind to it, you can do anything."

Hehehe....

At least I didn't


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Matt Rock
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Posted: 19th Sep 2006 21:04
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lol I have never tried anything and didn't complete it, except that FPS game, but that doesn't count Seriously, if I had the materials I could build this thing, no problem. I'd go so far as to bet money on it. It's just acquiring the money to build this thing that's keeping me from doing it, and when I get the materials, I'll take great pleasure in proving everyone wrong lol. Every time someone has doubted my abilities to do something in the past, they've been shown otherwise hehe. Hopefully this will be one of those times


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Agent Dink
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Posted: 20th Sep 2006 00:48
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Or it might be one of those times you hear on the evening news how the local kid drown himself while building a 1 man submarine...

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Fallout
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Posted: 20th Sep 2006 02:07 Edited at: 20th Sep 2006 02:08
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Quote: "Seriously, if I had the materials I could build this thing, no problem"


By materials, do you mean all the parts and screws like a bit of Ikea furniture? Unfortunately I'm with Jeku on this one. It's not a slur on you. I don't think anyone in the forum could make this dolphin. I'd love to be proven wrong though.


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Matt Rock
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Posted: 20th Sep 2006 04:42
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I know for a fact that I can. The reason it seems hard is because you're all looking at it as if it's a serious submarine, and it's not... it just goes underwater and comes back up after a brief period of time. Or at least the one I'm building is going to. I'm not going to design this so it can go down to hundreds of feet below the water... at most it might go 10-20 feet, then resurface. It'll spend most of its time skimming along the surface. Again, mine won't be nearly as cool as the real dolphin, but it'll still be pretty neat.

And submarines aren't as impossible to create as one might think. My friend Amber brought to my attention a kid that went to college with us, an anthropology student named Kevin something-or-other. Anyway, this guy built a pool submarine as a science project in the 10th grade out of.. get this... wood. Wood! he could sit inside it, and it would sink to the bottom of his pool (8 feet or so), and then it would dump its ballasts and resurface. he got air through some sort of plastic tube. While most people watched his video of it in a drunken stupor laughing hysterically at his nerdiness, I remember being awestruck by it, even though the principals were extremely simple. The main difference... this will be traveling horizontally at high speeds and it'll have a window oh yeah, and I'll be getting air from oxygen tanks and scrubbers, not a big plastic tube thingy Amber still knows the guy, so I'm hoping she can acquire a copy of the video and we can get it on youtube so you guys can see it. Just don't laugh... he's a bit... nerdy. Anyway, if that skinny dork can build one, there's no reason why I can't lol


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Fallout
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Posted: 20th Sep 2006 12:35
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It's not really that I don't think you can. I'm a confident person, and I reckon I can do anything when I put my mind to it. I reckon I could make one of these things too. It's just logistically and financially it's difficult, and I'd imagine it'll be really dull all the research you'd have to do on parts, constantly phoning round, sourcing components, waiting weeks for them, finding out they're wrong, sending them back, trying something else etc. Failures after carting it to the water location, finishing it out, back to the drawing board. I simply couldn't be arsed to spend the months/years doing that.

It's just like game dev. Nobody finishes any games of any complexity, because they just get fed up with the project. The honeymoon period goes and another idea seems better. Good luck though matey. I still would love to be proven wrong though. If you do get started on this, make sure you make a WiP thread!


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Van B
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Posted: 20th Sep 2006 13:03
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What we really need is these guys to start selling kits, so you can build these things in your garage, get them certified by Lloyd's or whoever 'MOT's' watercraft , then start bothering wildlife properly. There's a ton of people out there who'd happily pay good money for this - including me!.

I'm sure they know the sales potential of this, I imagine they're just waiting on a mass-production contract so they can start selling these things at a price some people may be willing to pay - as it stands they're still prototypes - I'd wait a couple of years and see what materialises.

I used to be a project engineer for an oiltool company, mainly remote operated robots for welding oilrigs underwater, but I worked on a few more interesting projects, like a radar platform on the Arc Royal aircraft carrier. I would'nt consider making my own , and I have a few connections!.

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 20th Sep 2006 16:46
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I like the dull, boring, and inhumanely lousy parts of developing things, like games and watercraft Paperwork is my best friend... ask anyone on my game development team how much they hate it when I yell at them for not signing something or logging something else, lol. To be honest, I think that's part of the reason why I want to build one of these myself.

But I totally agree with Van, a kit would be much easier (and a ton of fun too!). As of yet they haven't provided any indication that they'll make this available for purchase, they haven't responded to either of the two e-mails I've sent them, and it seems as though they're only building these for the movies, like the upcoming Austin Powers film. If they somehow haven't managed to see the potential of this vehicle as a marketable recreational watertoy, then perhaps it isn't that safe afterall, because they wouldn't be very bright hehe. I just hope that if they do market them, we don't have to wait several years for a reasonable price.


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